I have been doing some research with the help of several members on the subject of the TPS. The reason is that I don't want to be exposed to a $3000 part bill because Jaguar does not have enough consideration for their customers to sell the part as a seperate part. Only with the whole throttle body. So, I have been looking for a replacement part (new part) if and when the time comes. One member suggested the 1995 Ford Scorpio might just have the same part. There is one listed on ebay #181042308911 that appears to be identical. I am considering ordering that part and testing it on my car to see if it gives the same voltage variation as the one I have on there now, which is working.

The other problem was how to test the new part. Well, I found test instructions on a Ford Scorpio forum site that gives instructions For Dummies on how to test the TPS. The link below will take you to that forum page.

I would like to hear from you guys, especially XJRengineer as to what you think of my plan. If that part will work on X300 cars that could solve a big problem for a lot of owners of this great car.

Looking to hear from all of you.


Granada and Scorpio Online Forums - How to test the TPS (Throttle Position Sensor)

 

Will follow this with interest. I rcently asked a main dealer jag mechanic if he was aware of any parts interchangeability between Fords and Jags, especially the Ford Mondeo, which seems to share parts and is a very common car here in Ireland and UK.

He agreed that it was most likely in many instances but he wasn't aware of any specifics or of a database that would supply relevant information.

It would be nice to have the option of not paying a fortune for a badge!

 

One thing that would help in this investigation is a bad TPS that I can use for comparision with out having to take the good one off my car and possibly messing up something that is still working. If someone has one that has gone bad and would loan it to me that would be a big help. It has to be for an X300 95-97. You can PM me if you want to.

 

FWIW, the Jaguar part number for the X300 TPS is JLM12074. It is available as a separate part. You can Google the part number for some new/used/aftermarket choices in addition to the Scorpio replacement you listed

Cheers
DD

 

Thanks Doug for this part number information. Great info. I wonder how the information got around that the TPS could not be bought seperately.

I did find the part at Motorcars LTD and it was almost $500. still a lot of money for such a simple part. And on EBay there is one for the Scorpio that appears identical for $50. And several others that appear identical for little over $100. I'm tempted to get the $50 one just for the hell of it to see if it checks out. But to do that without screwing up my car I need a failed OEM unit to compare mounting, pin out and resistance levels.

If someone out there has a failed OEM one I could borrow it would sure help.

Thanks again Doug.

 

Nasty rumor :-)

Actually, there may be some instances where the TPS isn't available separately....wouldn't be totally surprising.....and somebody probably assumed (ha ha) that the same situation applied to all Jags

<shrug>





I call it "stupid expensive"




And don't forget degrees of sweep.

To my eyes it looks an awful lot like the TPS used on umpteen Fords in the 80s-90s....commonly available for $25 or so

Rock Auto has one listed for X300s for about $200, FWIW



Wish I could help.

I strongly suspect (ha ha again) that any number of different TPSs could do the job with a bit of ingenuity and fiddling. But, as you say, having the Jag piece in your hand for measurements and comparison would be a big help

You're welcome :-)

Cheers
DD

 

Just tossing this out as an idea starter....

1992 Ford Mustang 2.3L

Airtex 5S5117 Throttle Position Sensor | eBay

For example I used this type (but AC Delco brand) on my XJS V12. Sweep and resistance was the same, just took a bit of "fitting" and wire splicing....maybe an hour's worth.

Cheers
DD

 

I REALLY think you should read my thread on the X300 TPS. Might save you a lot of trouble. After all the trouble I've had with my TPS, I would never ever suggest saving $ on that part. It can create so many issues that you will never suspect to origin from the TPS. Just buy the real Jag TPS and have it over and done with.

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...rt-help-73922/

 

I fully understand your point. Driveability issues on these cars can be difficult to sort out and often require recalibrations that can be performed only by dealers or independants with Jag-specific software/diagnostic equipment.....few and far between for some of us. Inconvenient. And expensive, too. So, taking the path with the highest probability of success makes good sense.

OTOH, the difference between a genuine Jaguar-boxed part at $400-$500 versus a "suitable substitute" at $50-$100 is just too much for some of us to resist :-). It's up to the individual to weigh and balance risk versus benefit. And, we all have different levels of tolerance to aggravation when things don't go quite as we hoped.

I might add that if less expensive repair options can be discovered...and verified to work well... it will go a long way towards keeping more of these cars on the road. Repairs can be very expensive while market value is very low and still dropping. As enthusiasts I think we're all willing to spend good money on our Jaguars but, well, let's just say that some are more enthusiastic than others :-).

(Speaking for myself, I'd *love* to be more "enthusiastic" ($$$) than my present circumstances permit. A few years ago I was in a position to be *very* enthusiastic ($$$) with my Jaguars. Nowadays...not so much. My father, rest his soul, would attribute this to "the vicissitudes of life". )

Just my rambling two-cents.

Cheers
DD

 

Doug,
I have deep respect for you and what you are doing at this forum. I am just saying this is the worst electronics issue I have had on any of my cars. It was extremely hard to diagnose and troubleshoot and even then, it was a leap of faith to order the expensive part and ask the garage to put many hours of expensive work into it. Imagening what would have happened if I used a non original part that wouldn't have fixed the problem, after 8 months of troubleshooting, still keeps me up at night. One thing is for sure, I would have given up on the car and sold it, as I was already up many thousand of dollars trying to fix it. The original tps itself is such a small part of the overall bill. Best money I ever spent on any car.

 

Hello guys,

Usually lurk around here because one of my Jaguars is a AJ16 powered XJS. Identical engine to the X300 except for the mechanical clutch fan and other little things.

First, I do think I have an old TPS JLM12074 in my used parts box, if its still needed.

Second, the failure mode on my TPS was a total, blackout failure at high speeds: say I was traveling at 70 on the freeway and would let of the throttle to get down to 60...car would die. Not very pretty. Kind of life threatening . I know other AJ16 owners both XJS and X300 who have had the exact failure mode on their TPS.

The Jaguar TPS is a gold plated unit, which it needs to be. Because of the design of the vehicle, it can get easily contaminated and fails.

I have nothing against finding a true OEM replacement that costs less because it does not come in a Jaguar box, that's great....however,some products, specially electric parts, are a waste of time and money; for example the ignition coils lhe1510AB.....the new,OEM, made in Japan ones can be had for 110.00 dollars, but I see new owners trying to save a **whole** 30 dollars by buying a Beck Arnley or other Korean/Chinese copy. Those coils all fail, some in a year, some in two, and in the long run you end up spending a lot more than if you would have just bought the original in the first place.

Part JLM12074 costs 134 pounds sterling or 215 dollars directly from Jaguarclassicparts. Saving 60-100 dollars for either an aftermarket part or a part I have to modify which may or may not be of the same quality as the original is pointless. If the time comes when the part is no longer available, then that becomes an option.

I think it's important to discern between parts that:

A-Oem in Jaguar boxes

B-Are OEM, produced by the same manufacturer as the original, but not sold in a Jaguar box (like the Sanden compressors, Eurospare coils, Hella relays etc)

C-Aftermarket imitation parts made by another manufacturer.

I am not trying to discourage anyone from experimenting nor am I blanket condemning all aftermarket parts. I think if the OP finds that the original TPS fitted to the Scorpio turns out to the the identical gold plated TPS on the AJ16 that's great and a great service to all.....just saying do your research on where your parts came from, and sometimes a savings of 30 or 100 bucks turns out to be much more expensive when you have to buy the new part again and do the work a year or 6 months later. I am no rich person , but choosing between a 110.00 OEM coil and a 60 dollar aftermarket Korean is a no brainer. Picking between a 215 dollar OEM TPS and 100 dollar "other kind" is also a no brainer. When we get to a 3000.00 vs. 300.00 scenario I would probably be more liberal in my thinking.

I will send EZ a pm if i find my old TPS

 

I really want to thank one and all for their input. Sorry I have not responded sooner, but the vehicle with wings took priority for a couple of days.

First off I would like to say I am not in imediate need to solve a driving problem. I have a stalling problem when coming off idle after stopping at a red light or etc. It doesn't happen often and if I am quick on the throttle it is only a burp and the engine will get going again quick enough to not cause a traffic problem (sometimes it does completely quit). But, I want to do as much trouble shooting and investigation as possible while I have a running car. So far I have cleaned the TB, changed the crank position sensor, and getting ready to change the idle control valve. I am anticipating changing the TPS if I can find one that has exactly the same functionality at the lowest price possible. If this proves the existing TPS is going bad I would not have a problem with buying a gold plated unit.

Anyway, other than the stalling issue the car runs great with good mileage. And I want to keep it that way with preventative maintenance as much as possible. And if I can help out the group with some good research data and and an interchangeable part so much the better. Spike, if you can find the old TPS and let me borrow it I would really appreciate it.

 

Thanks :-)




I fully understand your position and think you made the right decision under the circumstances. It's hard enough fixing some problems without adding more variables to the mix.

Still, though, it would be nice to know if alternatives ....verified to be suitable...are out there. I think that's what we're trying to do in this discussion.

Cheers
DD

 

Too true! God knows I have as much or more experience with failed aftermarket igntion coils as anyone.

The coils are a good illustration of the dilemma faced by some owners. Jaguar-boxed replacements are $400 each. This is a very tough pill for some to swallow....especially since a fellow may easily find himself having to replace several 15-17 year old originals in a fairly short period of time.

The $110 true OEM replacments, without the Jaguar box or Lucas sticker, are of course the perfect choice. Were it not for you and others who research the availablity of such parts....and even point to a specific vendor selling them....we'd be in a world of hurt!





I agree.

With VAT and shipping the JLM12074 would likely be more in the $270 range but, still, your point is valid.

Considering the labor involved, and repeat visits (and expense) for recalibrating if the less expensive/experimental part fails, saving $60-$100 is indeed pointless.

OTOH if the $50 Scorpio TPS can be verified as working correctly then I, for one, would be hard pressed to spend an additional $150-$200 for the JLM12074. And certainly not the $350 additional if buying the $400 replacement mentioned earlier on.

As I mentioned before we all have different levels of tolerance for failure and, frankly, ability to pay.





"Research" is the important thing. You can't properly weigh your options and risks without doing some research.

Cheers
DD

 

If someone can give me a Ford part number I can get some tech specs for the TPS. I own a motor factors so have plenty of resources at my disposal! Already done some research into the Jag part but can't find a reliable cross-reference to work with. Give me some numbers and I'll see what I can do!

 

That would be great!

The vendor in the Ebay listing for the Scorpio TPS provides a variety of Ford and aftermarket part numbers

New Ford Scorpio 2 9 I Brg Throttle Position Sensor 1995 to 1998 ETP002 | eBay

Cheers
DD

 

70418A
1A2GB
Ford
I took a few photos of my new TPS when it arrived and the above are the markings on this original part. There was a note included, saying:
Replacement Throttle Potentiometer 70422.

Let me know if you need a picture of the part, or the note :-)

 

Yes, I could really use pictures of the part and the note. I would be a great help. If you want to go through email PM me. But I think everyone would like pictures.

Thanks for your help in my quest.

 

http://i49.tinypic.com/214wdbb.jpg
http://i50.tinypic.com/2dkjz4j.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/9fnpf6.jpg
http://i47.tinypic.com/14xo08k.jpg
http://i50.tinypic.com/2im2nuv.jpg

Enjoy

 

Yes, I did enjoy the pictures greatly. I won't need my Playboy magazine for a while

Thanks for your help, sbc