If you worry about rust, then bear in mind that FORD/JAGUAR apparently had fully embraced Business 2.0 by the time of the X308. The quality of the goods sold apparently need not hold any relationship to the price so long as your "branding" people work their magic.

Ever wonder what lays behind the wheel arch liner?

As a first step, if the vehicle has both air conditioning and a sunroof, look at the liner just behind the front tire on each side. You should see TWO hoses exiting the liner at the bottom on each side. If you see one or none, then ponder the construction of the liner. The liner is made with two(2) hose retainers and two(2) punchouts for the two(2) hoses. The problem is that the assembly line decided that it was sufficient to route one(1) hose through one(1) punchout, and leave one(1) hose dangling behind the liner in the cavity, thus saving the time to do the other punchout and routing. After all, there is not much margin in the pricing of the car to do it properly ... even if the retainers and punchouts are already moulded in.

Hmm ... a drain hose emptying into a restricted cavity ... shouldn't be a rust problem right?

Now, move on to the cavity itself. Despite the written claims that the vehicle cavities are factory sealed with heated rust preventative materials ... that is not true. Looking in the cavity you will find that the steel is mostly grey primer with some caulking material splattered at some seams. This is the area that the hose drains into. Wonderful.

Since the liner is down, look up at the sheet metal above the wheels. Better paint ... at least it is body color. But, that's about it.

The stud that the plastic liner retaining nut screws onto will be orange dust. Apparently there are savings to be had using plain thread rather than plated.

There must have been some great bonuses paid out to senior execs those years. Too bad they know how to cut corners better than how to build cars properly. Hopefully they will enjoy their early retirement or their employment under Tata.

 

I agree, I even posted my findings on the amount of area's that can and do trap moisture.

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...onsider-59153/

But - (there's always a but) considering how far we've come in the last couple of decades, it isn't that bad, after all, if manufacturers made their products rust proof, they'd go out of business fast. The bottom line is they build things to a price+that eventually will fall to bits, we then have to buy their latest products.....my gripe is being a private individual I buy my car, not the company I work for, and expect it to last.

An early E-Type Jag didn't have ANY body defense, some where rotten after less than two years!
Italian car's like Alfa Romeo, Fiat and Lancia almost closed because of their shoddy builds, Lancia don't even sell to the UK any more because the reputation for rotting cars wrecked sales.

I see lots of posts from people with 98' cars on here, XJ and XK. 14 year old car's still running ain't bad - How long is long enough to get your money's worth? 3 years? 10 years? 30?

I hope I've raised some valid points worth discussing - I'm not defending auto manufactures, or Jaguar in particular - all car makers make mistakes. I like the Ferrari 458 that sets fire to itself as one of the best recent design flaws....any other good ones out there?

 

I don't drive my Jaguar in the winter to minimize salt corrosion, but I'll have to check the wheel arch liners.

 

In addition to rust issues, how is the pain holding up on everyone's cars? I have parked my car in intense Texas sun for 4 yrs and has been in a garage in Massachusetts for another 4 yrs but I still occasionally drive in the snow. My paint still looks good. Is this the norm for an old X308 or am I just lucky? I see a blue VDP that I think is a '98-2000 (b/c of the crown rims) nearby me from time to time whose paint looks terrible.

My suspension and exhaust system have a bit of rust though. My rear mufflers behind the rear wheels look fine, but the location they are in looks like they would have a high risk of rusting with all the snow/rain that constantly splashes over them.

 

@Burmaz it's a stainless system so no worries with the exhaust. Also heat through the system can defend it.

Paint is by ICI one the best, so no worries there either, problems can be due to certain colours, neglect, mistakes in care, living next to the ocean, parking under pine trees etc, purely luck of the draw on paint.

One thing I'd look at is the A frame front face, if you've seen my post, it can be protected with etch primer/underseal/stonechip and that is prone to rusting right through.

I'm helping a buddy defend his for the winter months shortly, will post pics of before and after if I remember to take a camera along.

 

A car will only last as long as it's owner cares for it to. Many UK cars didn't come with sunroofs so won't have the outlined issues above. However I think plums harsh assessment of Jaguars weatherproofing is out of line because if it was so bad the rust monsters would have struck long ago.
Ford saved Jaguar from nearly disappearing from the map after the cold bowl of sick that was the XJ40.
Sean's advice and rust thread is a good one and my X308 winter prep thread contains some good advice from a few members.

 

But, the point being made is that the provision for the hoses to exit the wheel arch cavity was an integral part of the engineering design. Two punchouts and two retainers are part of the wheel arch liner for each side as delivered to the assembly line.

Yet, the assembly line ignored the intended design.

Now, as a private individual you have to both know that the fault is there and care enough to pull the hoses through. That is a job that should have been done at the factory. And in the intervening ten years water has been merrily been dumped into the cavity even though the engineers tried to prevent it.

You won't find that on a Toyota Supra or a Alfa Guilia. If the engineer put it there, the assembly line used it. There is no half arsed "forget about it because we have to fit in the time for tea break per union rules".

 

Even if you have no sunroof, the other hose is the condensate drain for the AC. So, if you have no hose exiting the wheelwell at all ... join the club.

A word about Ford ... in North America they do not have a stellar reputation with regard to rust in their domestic vehicle line.

The criticism is not out of line as it is not addressed at the design ... it is pointed straight at the production engineers and the assembly line who sabotaged the design team's attempts at mitigation.

 

Well it must just be your car then because both my X308s have the hose poking out the arch liner.
Perhaps you got the work experience boy doing the arch liners on your car.

 

Well, you don't have the sunroof so it's not an apples to apples comparison.

It must be that the factory pokes the hoses through for the airconditioning evaporator condensation drains because all cars have that, and then says only some cars have the sunroof so lets forget those for the sake of not having to do it differently.

Either way, for those who have both, they should be looking for the second set of hoses poking out.

 

Actually, it's the windscreen drain - the air-con drains from either side of the trans tunnel inside the car.

If your car has had a replacement wing, these hoses could be missed when installing a new wing, the intervening ten years of a car's life can have skeletons in the closet. I wonder why the punchout wasn't done..my car has both, but then it's on 02' and no sunroof!

I guess your next car will be a toyota prius!

 

So, your car has two punchouts punched out on each side? You say the aircon drains are in the tunnel. What the heck is in the holes besides the windscreen drains since you do not have a sunroof?

The logic still applies even though one is the drain from the windscreen area, because the other one is the sunroof and again all cars have scuttles, but only some have sunroofs.

Unless the bodyman was a perfectionist, the wings are the originals. And the condition is on both sides ... so it would have to be both wings.

 

A few quick "For what they're worth" remarks :-)

In my part of the world it's awfully wet but my '95 doesnt have a spot of rust ....and I've looked. We don't have salted roads, though.

My owners manual specifically calls for washing the underbody, suspension, etc as part of routine maintenance. Does the X308 manual say the same?

No excuse for the assembly line guys assembling the car incorrectly. Good grief!

I've seen so many different (mostly east coast) cars rusted out that I don't think any manufacturer is immune. American, German, Japanese, whatever. From my prior-life dealersip days I can remember recalls from Chrysler, GM, Subaru which addressed some serious rust issues

That's all for now :-)


Cheers
DD

 

Plums, here's what's behind your wing I guess you have a hose connected where the red bung is for the sunroof? Your issue is that this hose is not fed into the inner arch?
I can see a problem here, if water from the sunroof got into the connector all hell would break loose, but if the hose is long enough, no problem.
Has your lower wing and sill rotted out?



and if you look at the second picture, there's the rubber drain hose for the air-con. I hope this helps you. It's not what I say, it's what Jaguar built.

 

As always your photos are a treat for those who have not gone that far into the car.

To clarify the problem, it is the fact that a provision was made by the design engineers to route the water to the exterior and that provision was ignored by the assembly line.

On a sunroof equipped model the hose would be fitted to the bung, but left hanging in the cavity to drip water all over the place.

While it is true that the water will eventually dribble out somehow, would it not have been better for the hose to actually exit through the wheel arch liner as intended by the original design? The cavity is not watertight, but less stagnant water pools couldn't hurt. Unfortunately, the assembly line didn't see it that way, even though the engineers tried to help.

Also, take a look at the rust around the scrivet in your picture. That was the second part of the caution to others ... that the cavity could benefit from the application of corrosion preventative such as waxoyl.

Sure cars will rust, but later is better than sooner.

 

Well, it's a given in salted areas ... most car people know this as a matter of course. The same goes for salt water and warm garages -- absolute death. It is better to park a frequently driven vehicle in the cold so that the slush stays frozen because it remains relatively inactive.

And that's the real beef. People being paid to do a job that don't do it.

Jaguar was fighting a reputation for rust, and to stay alive. And the union is screaming bloody murder to keep the jobs in Coventry with all the attendant union dues... but let's not bother doing the job properly. Talk about shooting oneself in the foot.

 

I have a 01 XJr, us specs so with sunroof and A/C.
On mine the 2nd holes were not punched through the liner but you can clearly see the location for it on the liner back.
Since the liners are molded that mean the dies were modified not to have the 2nd hole molded.
So in my case it's hard to blame the line workers since obviously that was a mold change.
Why did jaguard decided to have the sunroof drain behind the liner instead of in front, i have no idea but thanks to Plums post, I drilled the 2nd holes and installed the sunroof drain hoses through it
I should add the the factory secured the sunroof drain hoses to the retainer on the back of the liner.

 

A small razor knife will work too. Just poke the tip through the molded outline in the back and the knife will follow the outline because it is the line of least resistance to the blade. Lubricating the hose helps because the hoses are so short that the liner has to be close to the final position before fitting the hoses through, so there is only room for a couple of fingers to reach in behind.

As for where the blames lies ... it is somewhere before delivery to the first retail buyer. For all we know, it could have been part of the PDI if it involved only a minority of units.

 

I'd just like to point out to you that the car in the picture was submerged in some of the worst flooding that Cumbria had ever seen. Not only that, it is shown here in the process of strip down and it had sat outside exposed for a while.

I often wonder why Jaguar bothered to put a sunroof on the XJ because in my opinion not only do you lose headroom it ruins the lines on the roof.

 

Whether or not Cumbria flooded, would a coating of waxoyl not been beneficial?

Agreed on the headroom. But, in some markets sunroofs are almost de riguer. Mine is tilted up at the rear in all weather.

Still, the sunroof was not the best available. For a really good sunroof from the same parts manufacturer, take a look at the moonroof used on the 1987 Rover 825s. The mechanism was completely reliable, lots of headroom being glass and it didn't creak or make any other noises. Jaguar should have spec'ed that one.

The Rover 825s also had far better build quality.