OK,
The Kitty suddenly wouldn't start yesterday at work and so I jumped it and headed home and put it on trickle charger. This morning it started strong first time. Drove it 2.5 miles and turned off car for a quick errand (less than 5 minutes) and when I tried to start it again - nothing. The lights work, windows closed, makes a little "click" when turning key to start but nothing. Replaced the battery. Still clicks but nothing else. Alternator replaced 18 months ago. Battery leads clean.

What to try next? Hopefully not the starter because it looks impossible to get to (car is on jack stands now and I can see the starter and only one of the mounting bolts is visible from underneath).

Any advice? Of course this happens before a busy holiday weekend (I think the car is just protesting an American holiday). ;-)

Regards,
- Michael

 

This covers most, perhaps all, of the possibilities

Engine Will Not Crank Checklist

Cheers
DD

 

First suspect is a starter relay going bum. You can bypass it under the bonnet.


Remove the r/w from the relay. Jump 12v from the battery + post. Odds are that it will crank.


For a very short interim bodge, remove the w/y from the relay. Connect it to the R/w. The relay is bypassed and the engine will probably crank from the key.


Far better: Remove the relay, open the can and clean the points. Or replace with a generic Bosch type 30 or 40 amp four post relay. Cheap and utterly reliable.




Carl

 

Thanks Carl & DD for the tips.

I swapped the relay with one from by 1986 XJ6 and the relay clicks fine but the starter seems to be the culprit and I am debating if I want to replace it myself OR sell some plasma to pay for a mechanic to do so ( can only imagine that this is a $150 parts and $500 labor job). I understand that to get to the starter mounting bolts you have to slightly drop the back of the transmission to get access to the top mounting bolt.

Happy Thanksgiving!

Regards,
- Michael

 

Michael:


And, a happy holiday to you and yours. We lived and worked in Phoenix in the early 60's. Great time. Orangevale and 35th Avenue. Our house was a model in the newly built subdivision. I hear tell the area did not develop well..


1. Do the jump 12v to the RW. I'm not convinced that a click means the relay works!!


2. Others have reported swapping out the starter on the XK. One guy from above and the other from below. One used a cord as a cradle to hold the weight. They are hefty. Mine is in my bits shed awaiting a pickup from the guy I gave it to. when???


3. Shop time around here is $125.00 per hour. I suspect a pro with a lift can do better than 3 hours to R&R. Source and provide it's replacement. David Boger of Everydayxj for a good used one. Rebuilds nowadays are very ?????


I can swap one out on my lump really quick.... Don't ask!!!


Carl

 

No, that isn't required.

Starter job isn't all that bad on a Ser III XJ6.

One bolt from under the car using an extension and a flex joint, the other bolt removed from topside. Removing the battery makes that one easier. There are some transmission vent tubes that need to be shifted aside.

Remove the oil pressure sending unit....which is a couple inches forward of the starter. Why? If the starter gets away from you while maneuvering it in/out, it can easily fall forward and break the sending unit off at the stem.

Keep an eye open for the thick mounting spacer. Don't lose it. They often are stuck on the starter.

Cheers
DD

 

As Doug say's exactly. It's actually very simple. I just did mine. Out in less than 15 minutes. EASY.

 

Doug, Carl, and Amazing,
Thanks for the advice and encouragement. Unfortunately the pervious owner must have used an air-wrench on the top bolt because while the bottom one took 2 minutes, the top one took about an hour AND broke a wrench in the process. I was able to remove the petulant part from the engine and will install the "new" (remanufactured) one tomorrow AM. The one benefit of this has been a chance to clean up some of the underside of the engine and transmission (which... was actually pretty clean overall). I ended up replacing the Negative battery terminal because the threads on the side-terminal were worn down and thus not letting the cable make a firm enough attachment for my tastes.

Now.... one last request for advice... since I have the car up on jack stands (two sets for safety) and am underneath, is there any preventative maintenance I should do while I have time and access?

- Michael

 

The list of suggestions could get rather long.

Do you have any service history on the car?

- transmission service
- oil/filter change
- repack front wheel bearings
- lube u-joints and suspension fittings
- clean main ground strap (right next to where you're already working)
- drain/flush/refill cooling system
- change diff oil
- flush brake fluid

Cheers
DD

 

exactly

 

OK... finally got the starter in, replaced the coil (the terminal threads were cross-threaded), and reinstalled the battery, and went to start to and ... it tried to turn over but couldn't. The new starter engaged and the fan twisted a little and nothing. I put the trickle charger back on the battery and will try again in an hour.

At this point I have replaced:
- the battery
- the negative battery cable
- the starter relay ("borrowed" from my 1986 which does/did start but the transmission is dead)
- the starter
- all hope

.... so any other advice? I have spent $310 for all of the parts and spent an entire day under the car and am almost desperate.

Thank you all, in advance, for your patience with my troubles.

- Michael

 

Good.

If still no joy, remove the spark plugs and see if the engine will spin on the starter.

Cheers
DD

 

Let's work on some volts some more.


1. VOM for volts on the battery. Bare minimum, 12v. If any less, it isn't going to crank.


2. Battery - post to the ground bolt on the wing wall. Clean, tighten and lube both
ends. Grounds are very important and poor ones the source of many electric issues.


3. Battery + to the firewall post. Same, clean, tighten and lube both ends.


4. Fire wall post to starter solenoid. Same drill, a jaguar mantra...


5. Most over looked. Back down and under. There should be a braided cable from the engine to transmission area to the chassis sill. Remove it and clean the points
of contact. Up to the bench. Even if the ends clean well, the braided part may be badly corroded and afford little conductivity. If in any doubt, replace it.


6. General caveat. Any battery cable may look good externaly, yet be badly corroded inside the insulation. I wish I could give you a resistance value to ohm to.
others might.


Side bar: One of my recent ills was the cable from the firewall post to the starter solenoid. Kinda scrawny. One end "burned/melted off"!!! I replaced it with a domestic generic cable. Much heftier insulation and ends.


Ove these many years, I've learned that good quality cables, nice and clean and tight solve so much....




Sermon over....
Carl

 

Carl and Doug,
Thanks for the tips and I did a lot of the cleaning recommended here (Engine Will Not Crank Checklist) as I was under the car yesterday. I will revisit the cables more thoroughly this afternoon HOWEVER...

The one "new" clue is that I tried bypassing the starter relay (jumping 12v from battery directly to the R/W wire to starter) and the starter turned the engine easily and so I think that the starter relay I "borrowed" from the 86 Jag is now faulty. Of course no local parts shop has a new/remanufactured Lucas 22/RA Starter Relay and so I am tempted to carefully open mine up and see if i can clean the contacts and repair any lose connections and bring it back to life.

Also... I am curious "if" I can turn the ignition key to "run" and then jump the starter (apply 12v directly to the R/W wire) and basically start the car? I would have to think that this may not be a "good idea" but have to ask.

- Michael

 

Many are successful in the repair you are considering.

Or....

Replace with a generic 30-40 amp "Bosch style" or "ice cube style" relay




You can do it, no harm will come of doing so.

However, the starter relay also feeds to fuel pump relay so that the fuel pump will run while the key is in the 'start' position. This pressurizes the fuel rail for starting.

So, turn the key to 'start' for a few moments and *then* apply 12 to the R/W wire.

Cheers
DD

 

Michael;


All right. So close. I have an extra wire from the starter solenoid into the engine bay.
Open in the bay, with insulation of course. My emergency crank wire!!! if my relays goof, just put the key on run, touch the wire to battery +. it will crank and fire.


I'd not mess with old tin can relays, Just go to the parts store. look on the shelf for a kit to hook up driving lights. it will include a 30 or 40 amp relay. Little black cube.


Quite generic. work just great. and cheap....


Check Andrew Weinberg's site, Jaguar-Specialties. He has a schematic for this.
although directed to we lumpers, it works elsewhere just as well.


If you get really stuck or confused, PM an address and I'll send you a spare relay....


Check the Jaguar S57 Schematic for the hook up.


Carl

 

** qualified

So... I used the key on Run and jump the starter and was able to get it running again - YAY!!! I took apart the original Starter Relay and cleaned up all of the contacts and will swap it out next weekend. Until then I'll use the jump method (after allowing the fuel pump to run for a few seconds).

Doug, Carl, Amaezing -- thank you for your advice and assistance and I'm glad that I was able to save some money by not paying for a mechanic's shop for this repair (mostly because after taking it out for a drive I ran over a nail and now have to replace the left-rear tire ---- proof of the Conservation of Misery theory).

Thanks again!!

- Michael

 

Michael:


Glad to hear that it is working. And, you now know a lot more about your car.


A simple nail puncture through the tread area can be repaired. Two ways.
1. with a neat tool insert a plug with rubber glue. 2. demount nd apply a patch inside.


Of course, if you rn a bit on it flat and beat it up, it is junk.


If the budget is tight, the local PIC N Pull might have a dent tire, wheel and all to match!!!


Lots of variation in tire quality, availability and pricing... shop


And, the local tire emporium will possibly insist, at least two to match or no deal.
Some validity to that. Especaily if you car has a limited slip differential....


Carl

 

So... after work I drove to get the tire leak fixed and after I turned off the car it would not start again - this time when I turned the key in the ignition I didn't even get any response from the car -- turning the key past the Accessory point to Start position or even Run position failed to do anything (no lights on dash illuminated, no noise from starter relay, no sound of the fuel pump starting). The lights work (interior and exterior) but nothing else worked (including the window motor so I couldn't roll up the driver window).

If I jump the R/W wire to the new starter with 12V from battery the engine easily turns over but will not start because the fuel pump aint feeding the hungry engine any gasoline.

I checked the main fuses in the engine compartment and they were all good.

The folks at Discount Tire (always outstanding service and great prices) took pity on me and pushed the car into the garage to keep it safe overnight (since the driver window was down and thus cannot lock it up for the evening). They will fix the leaking tire as soon as they open and then I will have the Jag towed to my new mechanic OR home depending on any last bit of advice anyone can share about why the ignition suddenly decided to fail.

Regards,
- Michael

 

Remove the under-dash panel and wiggle the wires at the back of the ignition switch. Any change?

Cheers
DD