What's the rationale behind the "....don't tow anything..." suggestion?



I'm curious how the main bearings enter into the picture and what the modifications are.

Cheers
DD

 

Hi Nigel,

Stir away old mate, just don't mention the war - sorry, I mean octane. I mentioned it once, but I think I got away with it...

Just noting Doug's comment, I too wonder what the necessary mods to the main bearings might be, given that several decades of ethanol use in the U.S. has apparently not showed up any impact on those components.

Re. towing: I only tow my 2100kg caravan with the Ford on straight 91RON. As per conventional wisdom I stay out of overdrive for the most part (especially on inclines) in order to achieve the best torque. If E10 is likely to cause further downshifting to avoid labouring, it would be a total PITA and I prefer to have the control I'm used to. Lower gears also means higher revs, greater engine wear and even higher fuel consumption - no good news there.
I will post on my caravaning forum and see what the fraternity may have experienced, although I suspect the non-diesel drivers are avoiding ethanol at present.

 

Hi Doug,

Only that towing puts extra load on the drive train and engine.

Doing so with a lesser fuel only adds to that load.

Critically so, probably not, but it will add more wear and tear than needs be.

Regards the main bearings, keep in mind that whatever issues were presenting, it was in relation to an ethanol mix north of 65% and some pretty bruising testing.

I don't recall the exact mods, in fact, I don't think I was actually told them, suffice to say that there were problems under more extreme conditions and more so than what we would hope to find in our every day environment.

Cheers,

Nigel

 

And here we go...................


Never takes long for the bad science stuff to surface.

 

Is there some reason to believe that the opinions expressed on the caravaning forum will be different than those heard on virtually any other automotive-related forum?

I have little doubt that many are avoiding E10.

Cheers
DD

 

To be honest I'm hard pressed to see how/when/why that is likely to occur.

Cheers
DD

 

I agree, probably not a critical situation. Almost certainly not, I'd say.

I think this is similar to the motor oil debates.

We'd have to take twenty identical cars pulling identical caravans, ten using E10 and ten using non-E10, drive 'em 100k miles under identical conditions, and then do full engine teardowns with very exacting measurements and analysis of all wear related parts.

Any takers ?



Ok, got it. Not really relevant to real world usage of E10.

Cheers
DD

 

I am amazed!!!! I continue to see really big pickup trucks, the gas versions, towing really big loads on heavy duty trailers. Just construction guys doing their work.


My Jeep has a hitch. I've yet to tow anything with it. But, I'd not hesitate as to a reasonable load. On the flats, OD would probably be just fine. On any hill, it would probably down shift. Fine. On an extended hill or series of them, I might or might not lock out OD.


My 85 F150, albiet V8 powered, wasn't a paragon of torque. And, the big wheels made the final gear drive less than optimal. But, I towed my home built box trailer loaded to the gills on many occasions. OD on the flats, just fine. Drop down at any incline, oh yeah, but so?


It left here in fine fettle....


As to rear mains??? In any engine, they are hefty. And, except for one version that I knw of, well lubed. Long lasting.


Sure seems like the numbers thing says that E10 works. All CA cars and trucks run on it.


Even my son's WWII vintage weapons carrier turned fork lift is still working. E10, no other option???


Carl

 

Dunno. The comment was made about shifting down (in order to maintain momentum) under towing conditions. I interpret that to mean the engine would otherwise labour in the higher gear. That's a normal situation with heavy towing. The extent to which E10 would exacerbate the situation as a result of its supposedly reduced power output?

 

Not so concerned with opinions if only academic, but their experiences are relevant. Unlike general automotive forums, this group is entirely focused on heavy towing.

 

E10 has 97% of the energy content of gasoline/petrol. If a 3% differential were to cause such difficulty in pulling a trailer, I think the driver has chosen the wrong vehicle.

 

Can we talk about direct injection next? :-)

 

Only after we've discussed nitrogen in the tires.

 

FINIS, it seems!!!!


Great.


Carl

 

Well I guess it got the juices flowing! Thanks to all for your views.

When we've done direct injection and nitrogen in tyres, think I might start another one about towing - be ready, there's much to get stuck into there

(Only kidding of course, not one for Jag people!)

 

Fuel, oil, tyres, spark plugs all seem to start a flurry of comments in any car forum :-)

Thanks Tony for pointing out they have started the E addition to 95 as well, I hadnt noticed. I guess there will only be more of those moves as the green blob washes over us.

 

I’m sorry, you are confusing Methanol with ethanol.
If you drink Ethanol ( in beer wine or scotch) you will get drunk and probably happy.
If you drank Methanol first you go blind and then you die..

In England post WW2 with the horrible pool gasoline available, Methanol was readily available and cheap. But it did horrible things to fuel lines, and aluminum etc.

America has been using E10 for many decades without a problem.
Please stop spreading bad information.

 

^

I'm not convinced that "using e10 for many decades without a problem" is an accurate statement. After all, we used lead as an additive for many decades before recognizing the extent of its problems.

As for your drinking it analogy, drinking gasoline without ethanol or methanol will adversely affect virtually all bodily functions almost immediately with relatively small amounts being ingested while larger amounts can result in permanent injury and death quite quickly. Potential consumption by humans is not a particularly effective method of determining effective fuel consumption in internal combustion engines.

Flex fuel vehicles are designed to minimize the effects of exposure to ethanol but that doesn't mean that ethanol doesn't have negative effects, particularly on fuel lines, floats, diaphragms. It's corrosive to some materials (including those often used in carburetors and other engine components). Ethanol is also hydroscopic which means its exposing internal components from the gas tank onwards to water.

It's less efficient from an energy perspective than gasoline so it will require a higher octane rating to provide poorer fuel economy and it evaporates more readily than gasoline so additional environmental measures are needed for its transportation, storage and use (including stricter evaporative measures in cars).

Lastly, it never made much sense to me to dedicate considerable arable land and substantial water resources to the production of a food crop (ethanol is almost entirely derived from corn) which is then burned instead of consumed either by humans or by livestock.

 

As I’ve said, ethanol adds power. Indy cars use 100% pure ethanol. NASCAR uses15% ethanol.
And all DRAG RACING & LAND SPEED RACING record setting moves cars with alcohol up a class. They don’t care if it’s ethanol or methanol). ( methanol adds about 2% more power than ethanol. But Methanol is really nasty stuff, it can cause cancer and a lot of other issues.
Methanol needs twice the volume that gasoline does whereas Ethanol is only about 1.4 times.

 

I don’t believe I suggested drinking gasoline.

I merely said that we drink ethanol regularly in BEER, Wine, and Scotch (Gin Burbon Vodka etc) in moderation. Without going blind or dying.
Methanol will make you go blind and quickly kill you. In addition alcohol has been consumed for many many Centuries. As long as ethanol is not abused there is no problem with it.
The myth about ethanol affecting fuel lines? It won’t. Because fuel lines haven’t been made with rubber since the 1930’s.
There was a period of time when the fuel lines weren’t up to the sort of pressure EFI uses and then car fires were a regular occurrence. The fire Departments even started calling them CAR- B-Ques. But the trouble was the fuel lines themselves.
I know Jaguar owners are hyper critical about fuel lines. Even though Jaguars use 30 PSI compared to the more common 60 PSI.
PLEASE READ EGAN’s book, SAVING JAGUAR to understand what was going on with those. ( Bottom line the fuel lines weren’t up to the task. 2 times!).
With regard to water in fuel? By the 1950’s those little glass bowl fuel lines that showed the amount of water in the fuel were pretty much gone. They figured out that cars run better in the rain. In short, trace amounts of water is all in all gasolines. It’s impossible to eliminate it completely. Ever wonder why the Soviet Unions’s oil production dropped when they became just Russia? It’s because the oil they were getting from Siberia froze the water ( in oil) in the pipes and expanded until the pipes split open. Due to neglect. I

Finally with regard to farmers. I believe you will find a lot more fallow land. Before Ethanol than after ethanol. I live in the corn belt. I still can drive around and see fallow land. Land not in use for years. Complex reasons for that. Bottom line? Corn is a commodity and an over abundance of Corn drops the prices to low to make it worth farming. Finally once the alcohol is extracted from the corn, the remainder is used as animal feed.