Okay, saga continues with pieced together series 2 set up.
Removed starter as per suggestion and tested. Seemed to work no problem out of the body.

Given that it changes between the tink sound of the starter and a part rev of the fan/engine I wonder if there simply isnt enough power? tried jumping it but no avail. small video clip of the sound.

https://vimeo.com/155354200

 

No sound on this machine, so I can't help there.


Four paths to take:


1. Use the VOM to determine available volts along the crank circuit.
a. Battery + post.
b.. Firewall post on the side above the starter.
c. Cable on the solenoid.


2. Preemptive, remove, clean and retighten the connections at each the above locations.


3. Ground path.
a. Battery - post
b. Under the car, the braided cable that should be there from the transmission to the chassis.


repeat, clean tighten and lube protocol


4. Rough and ready.


Connect jumper - lead to the engine. Touch the + lead to the firewall post. Try to crank via the key. If still no crank, CAREFULLY GET UNDER. Touch the + lead to the solenoid and a small jump to the small post on the solenoid. No crank??? Touch + lead to the starter big lug. Still no crank? bum starter !!!!!!


Carl

 

If jumping it didn't help, and the starter itself has been checked, then I'd go with Carl's suggestions about poor connections

Cheers
DD

 

Agree on all the suggestions above. Years and years ago I had the identical problem on my Sovereign and it ended up being poor ground connection to the chassis from the battery.

To confirm this, put volt meter on the + side of the starter connection and the chassis. You will see battery voltage as the circuit is not yet closed. As you crank (circuit closes) observe the voltage. If it drops dramatically, resistance is introduced (there is a voltage drop) and that is always poor connections.

Assumptions:
- Battery is tested and is good
- Starter is not internally shorted and is good.

 

Very interesting, while its still not going I found that the earth braided wire from the transmission to the body (as suggested above) was in fact entirely absent. Using a jumper between transmission and body I found the starter stop just clicking and proceeded to strain away at trying to start the engine, the v.fan turned but it failed to get anywhere. As soon as I disconnected the lead to the transmission the starter returned to a dull click. The battery shows between 12.5 and 13.1 volts. Noticed when the engine was trying to start a puffing breathing sound coming from the central engine block. One final note was that I had better results too because I used one o my generic relays in place of my starter and the voltage to the starter motor seems increased from attempts using the original relay.

 

Well, it seems that you are making progress, but not yet solved.


Thoughts:


1. Finnish fixing the ground path. As per Lagonia, clean, tighten
and lube the ground cable connection at the wing wall. Install a proper ground cable from the transmission to the chassis. That will assure a sound ground path and not only help here, but in other electrics.


2. The ignition switch to relay to solenoid is a "trigger circuit". The relay needs a healthy ground as well. Therefore, although it seems the generic relay cranks better, it is more likely the ground jump that made the difference. No matter, IMHO, generic relays trump old tin can Lucas relays. "Old" being the key word. New to new would be equal.


3. Are you getting a strong healthy crank or a labored one? I'd stay on enabling a good spin.


4. The puff might be a fire past a leaky piston into the crank case or into the intake or exhaust.


5. Once assured of a good spin, ignition and fueling issues can be worked on.


Idea, crank it with plugs out. Easier on the starter and assures that there is not a mechanical issue in either the engine or the starter.


Carl

 

New body-transmission braid didn't seem to be enough to replicate the effect of a jumper lead from the (-) pole to the transmission so affixed a long solid cable from the (-) terminal to the transmission body and that earthed it. I still get the heavy rev, the puffing noise and much shaking of the engine but no turn over. Took out the plugs and it did appear to rev easier, altho having heard an engine straining to crank before I would guess that this one sounds excited and quick not straining against a weight or anything, more like it just cant get 'something' to start her off. v.fan spins happily. I have a can of engine start, guess I should ask where to spray it

 

still a happy health energetic rev rev rev with v.fan action but no actual start, heaps of vibration and some puffing.
i guess repeat suggestions and see.
wonder if it needs a push start

 

Might be a silly question... But has the timing been set statically? When last did the "new" engine run? Did it come from a running car? Carbs clean? Plugs firing right around? No carbon build-up in the dizzy? Apologies if I'm asking questions that have already been answered.

 

1. Unless it is a manual transmission car, a push or tow will not work.


2, I'm with Nathan. Your description indicates decent cranking and an effort to fire.


One of the requirements of any IC engine, is a healthy spark each and every turn and at the right time. Verify, and if no luck or need more guidance, come back,. A simple strobe timing light will help detect spark.


Carl

 

Ok, no spark on recheck. armateur in disz turns, cables all tidy, spark plugs new and smell of petrol, but no spark from leads and none from central lead to coil.
ah

 

Progress, indeed. Isolated to an ignition issue.


1. electronic ignition or points and condenser??


2. Rough and ready: Jump 12v battery to the + post on the coil.
A good chance it will fire. Use the strobe light to see if the coil to dizzy lead lights it up.


3. Report back with what you get. Runs or no runs, Spark or no spark?


Don't run the battery down.....


Carl

 

Agree with Carl here, once you can confirm spark then you may/may not have to reset the timing, then you should be all good to go. You can also check the ohms reading from the coil posts plus the HT post, this will help confirm a dud coil.

 

tried direct jumper to (+) on coil but no change
noted at ignition but the central point for the HT on the coil and the (+) terminal on the coil both show 12.8 volt appx.
will look at points next I guess, the cap itself seems clean, dry and not too dirty.

 

If I am correct, the resistance of the coil in question is meant to be 0.9 to 1.1 ohms, what are you getting?

 

Nathan,
assuming I am doing the test for ohms correctly (not done it before so might have the placement of the contacts wrong, one to (-) and one to (+) on coil with meter set to ohms) it says 2.4 on both the old and the new coils. that's greater than what you mentioned above, is that a problem?

 

Aha, sorry I'm talking V12 language here... Let me do some sleuthing and see, Incidentally, any model numbers on that coil etc?

 

have two here, a brand new Bosch one and the original Lucas one, both show resistance of 2.5, will look for info on the original

 

Been reading this thread and I would say you are trying to solve 2 problems at the same time . Bad practice. One thing at a time. First get the engine turning over briskly on the starter . Remove spark plugs. Clean battery cables ...both ends of both wires. Fully charged battery. Certified good starter. Not just looks nice but actually performs to spec..clean connection to starter Use a jumper wire from battery positive post to solenoid trigger wire - solenoid on starter. I assume you have the ground "braided" cable in place (clean on both ends as well) Make the connection - starter should engage and engine should spin. Then, if it does ,.. find TDC and set the distributor to spec. Put the plugs in and connect the plug wires (you do have them connected to the right plugs ?) Give it some fuel spin the starter again and see what happens

 

The Cat roared today.
A friend helped and we traced the no start to the damaged resistor by the coil (I even replaced the damn coil last week too) which had corroded wires. the voltage was good at the coil then seemed die before getting to the distributor. once the resistor was cleaned and with a bit of carb-fidling we had her turn over and run for a few minutes. still issue with ignition wire from dash to fix. in fact there is still a few issues, needs heaps of transmission fluid and I can’t test the levels with the dip-stick pipe being bent and the timing could use some adjusting.
Big progress to get it thus far tho.
isolated the fuel pump issue to the dash as well, so that'll be the next things.
cheers for all the help thus far.