Then, may I buy that SAGINAW General Motors pump for my car? Do you have the part number, by any chance, please?

 

I do not know exactly where it is leaking. Unfortunately I am not an expert and I rely on mechanics. We raised the car and the pipes seemed to NOT leak but seemed shot, gone, old. The mechanic feared that, in his experience, they would break when removed. I was not able to see exactly where the leak was as they did not let me inspect the car as carefully as I wanted and brought it down again. They determined that the leak was from the rack, not the pipe but could not exclude the pump.

What I can say is that the leak is so important that it will empty the reservoir in 24 hrs. Since when the system is full of oil the power steering works perfectly, I assume that the pump and other mechanical leverages are fine and the culprit must be a seal but ... I am using a mechanically ignorant's logic, so I may well be wrong.

-------------------------

I ask the experts, Doug, Grant, Greg, JagBoi, yourself etc to advise me in favour or against the strategy to overhaul the WHOLE system, rather than only the failing part considering that money is a constraint.

I can spend the price for a new OEM rack and leave the rest as it is or I can try to overhaul every part but, in this case, I must save wherever I can and take the cheapest option for every part of the system.

Hence, if I decide to go for the whole system overhaul (my preference), then I want to understand if after market parts are a good way to go, or not, considering that they are way cheaper than local refurbishment, let alone than refurbishment at SNG Barratt...

I wish that money was not a constraint but it is.

Regards and thank you in advance for any advice. Tommaso

 

Can anyone help me determine which is my model?




My car is a Daimler Double Six 1992 V12 5.3 and the VIN is SAJDDALW4CM486688 so I think that it should be the only HE model listed there, but...

 

The rack from David Manners was part number PSR05 and was a refurbished original Adwest unit. It cost £212 plus carriage and a surcharge pending return of original unit. Mine is RHD. If yours is LHD the part number will have an L suffix I think.

 

My original rack had a similar ID tag to yours. It seems that more that one version was fitted but they are interchangeable. There is a difference between metric and imperial threads on the trackrods between early and late cars.

 

Thank you. I just called them and to refurbish my unit (LHD) will cost a bit more at 250 GBP + VAT + shipping. Thanks for the information.

 

Tommaso, I would not give anyone your rack in exchange. you have a very original Jaguar part that you could sell for a good chunk of money, even if it needs rebuild.

Instead, try to find a used rack that is not leaking or one that is already rebuilt. All they do is replace seals and the inner tie rods if they are worn out, and sometimes they do not even replace the inner tie rods, so the price they want to replace just the seals is absurd.

the Daimler you have is very special too, 1992 was the last year of the Series 3 body style AND on top of that it is a Daimler version. Not many were made.

as a matter of fact, your Daimler is as rare as the 1963-1967 Jaguar S type, also built only for 5 years. Even old parts from the S type have value today, sometimes more desirable than the reproductions.

 

if you post a picture of the power steering pump I can let you know if it is the General Motors Saginaw pump.

 

Tommaso, after reading your posts, I think you have very, very capable experts helping and advising you. I'm a "figure out what's wrong before deciding what to do" kind of guy. Jose's question of "where is it leaking?" has to be determined. Sometimes mechanics paint a customers problem with a very broad brush, hoping the customer will authorize more repairs ($$$$) than necessary, or because they don't know what the problem is and hope by replacing "everything", the problem will go away. I'm very cynical, I'll admit.

If you, or a trusted person, can't see where a leak is coming from, you can't determine what needs to be done. When you say the reservoir will empty in about 24hrs, but the steering is fine when it has oil, start with the simple things. Is there a loose/damaged hose or connection coming right out of the reservoir? Wiggle/feel that hose for looseness. Clean, as best you can, the reservoir and fittings, the rack pinion area where the steering shaft is connected, and feel the tie-rod boots to see if they feel "squishy", like they could be full of oil. Then fill your reservoir and let it set, if you can see or feel new oil from a fitting or certain part of the rack, then you can decide what needs to be done.

Dave

 

Dear Jose, thank you. I received the same advice by a specialist in Florence (Roberto Menegatto). In line with this advice I am considering either refurbishing at David Manners (I imagine that they will not swap my steering rack with a non original one) or having it locallly refurbished (but I am unsure if OEM internal parts will be used or non OEM) or buying a new one after market (these).

Do you think that David Manners or a local repair shop will use OEM parts? Are they difficult to find?

Regards, Tommaso

 

Tommaso, your best move is to have it repaired locally in case it keeps leaking, then you can inmediately have it re-repaired by the same people. This is assuming it is the rack. We don't know, you don't know.

Please note I agree 100% with Dave's reply (above your reply). I am very skeptical too, If they cannot pinpoint the leak, and just want to throw parts at the problem, something is not right. Go to a different garage.

Here's what is needed:
the car needs to be raised on a lift, One person inside the car, engine running, transmission in PARK, and the pump filled with fluid. Then the steering wheel needs to be turned left to right, right to left, as if you were driving the car, while another person observes from below the car with a flashlight to find where it is leaking. That's all.

It is going to be leaking from one of the rubber accordion "bellows" on each side of the rack, or from a ruptured / deteriorated Hose from the rack to the pump, or from one of the fittings (connections), where the hoses are connected to the rack and to the pump. It cannot leak from anywhere else, it is very easy to find a leak in a power steering system. BUT If it is leaking through one of the metal tubes connected to and above the rack, that can be an easy repair too, a new "o" ring, or "plumber's tape" (Teflon tape). Who knows, it might even be a loose nut.

I have a feeling you are being taken advantage of because the mechanic found out you don't know much about mechanicals.

Go to another garage and tell them to raise the car on the lift and to tell you where it is leaking power steering fluid. In fact, the rack or the pump might not even be leaking at all, might be just a hose. Those are called High or Low Pressure Hydraulic Hoses, A lot of words for a rubber hose that is exposed to heat and high presure.

No big deal, Don't exchange your rack for another, take it down and have it repaired ONLY IF IT IS LEAKING. Now you know where it can leak from.






.

 

I agree with Jose for finding the leak. Put the car on a lift, engine running, turn the wheel back and forth quickly under good illumination and a big leak like yours should be visible. Without doing all that, finding the location of a steering leak on these cars is extremely difficult. Everything is just too densely packed together.

For re-conditioning the rack, David Manners is a reliable supplier, I've known him for decades. However, I don't think the rebuild will be in his shop. I expect he'll send it to an established and reliable specialist. A steering rack specialist in Italy ought to be able to find the parts. If not, given the rack info in your photo, David Manners or SNG B should be able to put a rebuild kit together for you that you could then give to your local re-conditioner.

Incidentally, if they need more certainty as to identification of parts, your rack number is listed on the JLR Classic website. There's also a drawing of the heat shields on the website.

 

Peter if the car has a "Splash Guard" like the 6 cylinder Series 3, it is a good idea to remove it. (very easy to remove and replace) since hoses are routed in front of the suspension crossmember and are partly hidden/covered by the splash guard.

 

I agree with you here; 100%. Especially in Italy and even more so in Naples.

Thank you for this advice. To do this I will need to lift the car again (unlikely before September as the car cannot be driven), I will need to learn where every part is (not too difficult) and I will need some time (which I do not have).

I wish that I had more time to make experience on repairing cars as it has been my passion for however long I can remember. At one point I even bought a work bench, a hydraulic lifter, a set of tools, etc, and created a small workshop in my garage. I took out and opened the engine of a Lancia Fulvia Coupé HF 1.and replaces pistons, bearings, etc... but... time and priorities have changed and I do not have time for a hobby. Years ago I sold everything.

I have 2 roads:
1. The road that you just outlined (repair only what is broken after an inspection).
2. The road of replacing the whole system (the opposite of the above, one whole system at a time).

These are the circumstances and constraints:
a) this car is almost 30 years, but has only about 170,000Km and only one owner from new, before me... however, it could well have been neglected;
b) a few systems are not working (A/C, power steering, cooling. Other areas seem to need attention as fuel filters, high pressure hoses, etc);
c) I will use this car only when I will come to Italy, on holiday, on reasonably long road trips with the family;
d) reliability is paramount (I promised my wife before buying this car that I would make it reliable);
e) my free time is very limited and I have no mechanical skills;
f) money is not unlimited;
g) we are moving to England, in two weeks time;
h) since I am not expert, my priority was to find an honest and capable mechanic to inspect the car (as per your advice) but I failed and we have little time left;
i) the car needs to be ready before the Christmas holidays;
j) I will return to Italy, only then.

Given all the above constraints, especially (g), (h), (i) and (j) I feel that option (2) seems the easiest and most practical solution but also the best one, given (d) and (e). At the moment I can either replace a whole system or trust a local mechanic for his diagnosis. If I knew a skilled mechanic that I could trust, then I could go with option (1). Unfortunately I don't know any near me.A renown Jaguar specialist (recommended by the president of the Jaguar Club Italy) from Pescara (530 Km away) is scheduled to inspect my car next week and, if he will, then option (1) may become a possibility but, otherwise, given the unskilled and non trustworthy mechanics in my area, I am considering that Grant's (I believe) advice may be my best option.

I am considering that, if I am careful with parts and costs, then overhauling a whole system may, yes, cost me more than repairing the single item that failed in that system but I will save on labour further down the road and I will buy reliability.

Please comment. I am new to this world and I am trying to form an opinion.

 

Adwest were the original suppliers of power racks to Jaguar for the XJ6 in 1968, and previously had supplied their Varamatic steering box. The company was acquired by Magal Engineering in 2002. There is no mention of steering racks on their website.

 

Thank you to everyone helping me. Here are some images and videos of the engine bay and the power steering system's leak: dropbox link. I don't think that they will allow to see much and, apologies, my comments are in Italian.

By the way, is there a safer way to share these videos and images rather than posting a link to my dropbox?

 

Thank you for the advice. It is one of the options. The drawback is that Italians in general but Neapolitans even more, like to take short cuts and may not use OEM parts.

I agree with Dave too but, in my reply to him you can appreciate why it may be challenging.

It is simple and logic. When I had the car on a lift, with mechanics inspecting it, they simply looked under the car and said: "It is the rack". I wish that they had performed the inspection that you recommend but... too latenow;I either wait for Christmas when I return for a sufficiently long period of time or I entrust someone to do it right, for me, again.

I wish I knew all this before I took the car with a truck to a garage for inspection. You are offering me useful insight and it will serve me as a lesson, for next time, before I bring the car to a mechanic I will post here.

It is not a feeling. It is a fact. This is one of the reasons why, if I am to be taken advantage of, at least I want to to id properly trying to save money. I want to buy the right parts by myself and compare estimates for the mere replacement. I already have three estimates for replacing hoses and pump and three more estimates for the refurbishment of the rack plus a few prices for new racks, after market. There are two advantages with a whole system overhaul: it saves me money down the road if something else will brake in that system and it increases the reliability of a 30 year old car.

As above, I might not have the time. My mistake for trusting the wrong mechanic and not posting here earlier. In my city nobody wants to work on classic cars. They pose a problem as parts are not readily available and mechanics do not want to have a hydraulic lift unusable because an old car is waiting for a spare. Besides, they do not like to work on rare cars and prefer to do simple repairs, that known are known entities for them. It is difficult to even find a mechanic that will even only look at a classic car, let alone work on it. And, to be safe, they make ridiculously expensive estimates to steer you away. The only mechanic I found willing to work on these cars was introduced to me by the president of Jaguar Drivers Club of Italy, and he agreed to come from Ancona or Pescara (I forgot where) about 530 Km from Naples, as a favour to the president of the club. I know of other specialists in other cities but not in Naples. I simply cannot find one here! I asked every classic car club and enthusiast that I know in the area and mechanics, here, are either too busy or unwilling to work on a Jaguar and prefer modern problems to classic problems!

..
I found a mechanic in Rome (250 Km) who might come in September and another one in Caserta (50 Km). I will update you all.

 

Can you make what manufacturer is from the videos of my engine bay that I uploaded?

 

So far this is my preferred option even though I want to lift my car again and do the test that has been recommended in this thread. Regardless of what road I will choose (identify the problem and repair only that part or overhaul the entire system) I am inclined to send the rack to be refurbished by David Manners. From what I understand he will not swap mine with another. Correct?

If I will not sent the rack to David Manners, then this suggestion is excellent. I will call both tomorrow to ask if they have a kit.

Should be this one. Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

Tommaso. there are no OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) parts anymore, what we can get NEW is OSP parts ( Original Specification Parts).

You can also find NOS parts (New Old Stock) but some parts deteriorate with time (like rubber), so when it comes to Seals, you want to get OSP parts, not NOS.

any rack rebuilder will use the correct OSP parts, because the parts are new and as fresh as you can get them. What you want is a non-leaking rack, that is the job of the rebuilder.

my 1984 XJ-6 still has the original Saginaw pump and factory hoses. I bought the car in 1989. No leaks even today. I exchanged the rack around 1996 because it was leaking. It has not leaked anymore since then. But I had a mechanic who not just told me it was the rack, but SHOWED ME the leak with the car on the lift. A good mechanic will show you where the problem is.

There is a company in Belgium near you called LIMORA, they specialize in Jaguar parts. I have no experience with them but they have been in business since the 1990's and they have parts catalogs and illustrations that you can view online. Check them out, maybe they can be of help for parts. LIMORA.

Paciencia mi amigo. You'll get it fixed.