XJ6 & XJ12 Series I, II & III 1968-1992

What parts to put a S3 XJ steering rack in a S1 XJ?

 
  #1  
Old 04-18-2019, 08:59 AM
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Default What parts to put a S3 XJ steering rack in a S1 XJ?

Since I cannot get my S1 rack to seal at the supply hose fitting, my only choice is to change the rack to the S3 that still has parts available.

I could not find any "good" posts on this changeover... I remember reading about the tower height, hose locations etc.I would like to change
out all the parts including the coupling on the current steering column end where the attaching bolt goes through and has the locking nut. I
have a little play after 48 years in those pieces.

My rack is totally rebuilt, but I have leaking hose connections. Am doing the last thing I have found out today in hopes of not having
to do this "upgrade".

Any good info would be appreciated...
 
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Old 04-18-2019, 09:12 AM
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Rodger

You need....

1. longer intermediate shaft from any XJS, Series 3 XJ or or short tower series 2. I strongly recommend a late XJS or series 3 as they are better quality.

2. Series 3 Rack ( have a reman one in the box never used from Detroit Axle. PM me if interested at 200+ shipping, no core. )
or
Later XJS ZF rack (getting hard to find)

3. Series 3 or Late XJS ties rods, some are metric

4. 3/8 return line fitting

5. 1/4 high pressure flare line fitting

If you buy 2 I'll include 4 & 5
 
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Old 04-18-2019, 11:26 AM
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Rodger.... See pix
 
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Old 04-18-2019, 01:05 PM
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Will you remove the covers on the two hose fittings and confirm the two aluminum seals inside are new?

Roger

You are looking at the seal as you would see it in the rack hole.
 
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Old 04-18-2019, 05:13 PM
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See S3 rack into a S1 blog post. You'll need a new lower steering column because of the tower height differences.
 
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Old 04-19-2019, 06:43 AM
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I tnink you need the hoses too. On the early rack, the hoses wrap around the tower and enter from the rear using formed metal pipes. The later rack goes straight in from the front.
Rob
 
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Old 04-23-2019, 10:26 AM
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I have the Service Manual, it says to remove the upper column.. does any one know if you have to take it all the way out?
With the steering rack out, is there room to drop the lower column piece and can it be detached while still in the car?

Hate to do more work than is really needed.. do not need the practice taking out the speedo/ tach and turn signal
pieces..nor the rest of the stuff.
 
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Old 04-23-2019, 08:02 PM
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Roger, IIRC I replaced the thingy that goes from a spline on the column to a spline on the rack pinion without removing the column--but I removed the rack of course. You can look at it and see how it can be removed. The S3 piece is similar, but longer because the rack tower is shorter. Rob's right about the hoses--they enter from the front and are completely different.

The several variants of the S3/xjs rack have different torsion sensors so that you can get different steering effort. And, there are a few steering ratios available. The common S3 is faster than the S1, others still faster.

The tie rod threads are metric, and need matching tie rod ends. The taper part of the end is not changed, so it fits the S1 steering arms.

Sorry you can't get your fitting to stop leaking. I just add PS fluid weekly--solves the problem.
 
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Old 04-27-2019, 07:07 PM
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I learned TWO things changing over the S1 steering rack for a S3 rack and lower column...you need to hook up the fittings for the PS pump hoses FIRST!!! The new tower is farther forward and there is no room...plus the new tower hits my LH exhaust down pipe...

Will drop it down tomorrow and hook up the pipes and hoses and dent the LH down pipe so it fits enough to drive to the muffler shop for a new "upper section" to be made up. I have flanges from the head pipes to just near the transmission so doing this part of the job is not horrible and no cutting is involved.

Still need to center the rack and adjust the tie rods ends to the measurements I took before starting the job. It is a two person job inserting the lower column shaft into the upper knuckle but a neighbor lady helped me do that task.
 
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Old 04-29-2019, 03:06 PM
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I did manage to "re form" the old pipe fittings from the S1 rack and get them on without dropping the rack again. I did have the left hand exhaust down pipe off for the needed additional room. There are no leaks now from the PS!!! Another Jaguar that "does not mark its spot".

While the exhaust down pipe was off, I hit it several times with a BFH on the area that was hitting the new tower... it now fits and I will have a new redesigned one made up locally.

My next big project is to change the exhaust system from the 2 1/2 Ram Horns (the manifolds are already adapted to 2 1/4 at the down pipes as there is limited room on this type of V8 conversion) to the rear with new 2 1/4 pipe and new tips, will put new round Magnaflow mufflers into the rear spot where the Jag resonators now live. I will then "get rid of" the curved smaller Jag exhaust tips that I like, but are way too small in OD for a V8 (Jags are only 1 7/8"). This time I will run the exhaust under the IRS Ala a Corvette and use V bands instead of flanges....no gaskets and no leaks but more $$$ initially. With the short WB S1 there is no dragging of the exhaust and servicing the rear end is much easier without the exhaust routing through the cage. I did this to the '72 LT1/700R that I had in the past.

I centered the rack and confirmed the front wheels are approximately where they were when I started with measurements from side to side treads. I will go first to the local alignment shop and then drive it around for a few days...and tighten the PS fittings again.

Initial opinion is the new rack has LESS power steering feel than the old one...it will take time to get used to "more effort". Tomorrow I will have it aligned and take it for a long drive.. today was just in town and it was raining...another chance to confirm the wipers on older Jaguars are lacking in speed and efficiency.
 

Last edited by Roger Mabry; 04-29-2019 at 06:57 PM.
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Old 05-01-2019, 08:08 AM
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All done now, had it aligned. Now the steering feels the same. The only difference is new steering ratio turn to turn is less and the turning radius is more... No more turning around in tight places without backing up and trying to finish the turn...S1 rack turned quicker.

Coventry West provided the rebuilt rack and lower steering column piece and I reused the S1 custom pipe fittings with my hoses to my SBC.
 
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Old 05-04-2019, 03:22 PM
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Coventry West told me about the spacers that Jaguar put into the Series 3 racks to keep wider tires from hitting when turning...mine has the largest spacer. They are sending me the smallest one to correct my turning radius turning problem..

The spacer piece is the round silver one to the left of the nut. Just another little known fact of Jaguar factory mods. Pull your rack boot back and see what spacer size you have? They will be the same on either side.
 
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Old 05-05-2019, 06:24 AM
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I didn't know that. I did remember a decreased turning radius when I did this swap years ago, but didn't know about the spacers.

Thanks,

Rob
 
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Old 05-05-2019, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Roger Mabry View Post
Coventry West told me about the spacers that Jaguar put into the Series 3 racks to keep wider tires from hitting when turning...mine has the largest spacer. They are sending me the smallest one to correct my turning radius turning problem..

The spacer piece is the round silver one to the left of the nut. Just another little known fact of Jaguar factory mods. Pull your rack boot back and see what spacer size you have? They will be the same on either side.
I just happen to have my rack out replacing the gaiters and pinion seal when I read your post. Here's a picture of mine and they are about half the thickness of yours. Since the car was not drivable when I got it, I don't know how to judge this. It seems the inside tire in a turn would be angled more with a thinner spacer, wouldn't the outside tire be angled less? I am assuming the rack rod it self is where the actual turn stops are located. Any way.....I'm going to leave mine like they are and if there is something I can't live with, at least I'll know where to look. Thanks for the tip.
I have come across an issue to which the solution is escaping me. I want to replace the rack pinion seal while the whole thing is out on my work bench. The shop manual glibly states that you should remove the snap-ring, retainer and then the seal after you make sure the parts are clean. Picture in the manual shows this very plainly and I can make full sense of it, however, I have not ideas yet as to how to get the retainer out. Probing, prodding, picking will not make it move at all and it appears that it is a metal retainer with hard plastic/rubber/? coating. I have probably ruined the coating and will undoubtedly need to replace it, but I need to get it out first. Have you had any experience with this issue? This question is also open to anyone who wants to respond.
Dave

 
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Old 05-05-2019, 09:42 PM
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When I receive the thinnest spacers, I will post a picture to compare the sizes.
 
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Old 05-06-2019, 05:33 PM
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Spacers are thinner than the quarter
The new thinnest spacers arrived today, they are thinner than a quarter. So, all three sizes will be available on this post for future viewing!

Dick at Coventry West said they were 1/2 thick, 1/4 inch and "thin"... according to Dick "The lock plates are the same thickness. The spacers
are welded onto them so changing them does not effect alignment, just travel limits."
 

Last edited by Roger Mabry; 05-07-2019 at 08:40 AM. Reason: Additional information about no alignment
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Old 05-06-2019, 06:04 PM
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Thanks for the new picture, Roger.
Dave
 
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Old 05-07-2019, 12:28 PM
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No need to change out the spacers..when I told my local Bear Frame about the loss of turning radius --they we're able to adjust the steering by turning the inner tie rods to work properly. Still have the the thin spacers!!
 
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Old 05-08-2019, 01:53 PM
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Roger, that doesn't make any sense to me. The spacers are intended to limit rack travel by banging into the rack housing. Of course they move the inner ball joint outboard, which means you have to adjust the tie rod end to get the proper toe-in. Sounds to me that that is what the tech did. But it wouldn't decrease the turning radius. Only way to do that is remove the spacers. IMHO.

And, the ball joint is supposed to be in a certain position (congruent with the wishbones) to minimize bump steer. When Jag introduced the spacers for cars with wider tyres, they probably added a bit of bump steer.
 
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Old 05-08-2019, 02:51 PM
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I do not how they did it, except I still have the new spacers. They did not remove the inner or outer ties rods. There was no charge since they had done the alignment last week.

I asked them about not putting in the spacers and they said $120.00, but it would work the same. I put in the inner rods in my old rack and know how to remove the spacers, but then it would need another alignment due to counting tie rod end turns is only close.

I watched and all they did was turn the inner tie rod shafts and measure the front wheels and confirm the steering wheel was still centered.

All works as before with the S1 rack, can turn around quickly, goes straight..but no leaks.

These guys have been there for 30+ years and do great work. All the lifted vehicles come there for their skills.
 

Last edited by Roger Mabry; 05-08-2019 at 02:54 PM.

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