The 2000 Fairlady was a nice car. MX5 territory these days; don't see too many around though.

I guess by saying "in addition to the Jag" I was just stating the obvious since the vast majority of us have one. I used to have a Honda coupe, although like most 2 door coupes it was a derivative of a 4 four sedan, so I never considered it a sports car.

 

Not sure about other people but my decision to sell at least one of our cars (the 635) is related to how much longer I can easily get in and out of the damn thing. I can well understand how grey hairs/creaky joints and sports cars may not mix well :-)

 

The trouble with XJ's getting a heroic glow from movie/TV appearances is that they're as often as not used to denote a dodgy character, a la Arthur Daily. In fact I can't look at a primrose yellow XJ without thinking of Minder. & I treat anyone driving one as slightly suspect.

 

When I decided in late 2013 I was going to drive "what I like, not what I should" I did think of Holden,Ford & Series 1 XJ6.
After a quick search of 65"-75" Holden's & Ford's, many of which I had owned 20+ years earlier for a few hundred bucks and drove until they stopped. Decided that $20'000+ was way out of the ball park and looked at the XJ6's I had wanted since primary school.

To my pleasant surprise they were priced from $100-$5000, price not necessarily anything to with condition. Got mine for $2000 on a Friday afternoon and had it roadworthy & registered by 10am Monday (possibly a dodgy brothers or Arthur Daily style RWC).

Don't let the secret out. Or everybody will want one.

If I was into this car to make a quick buck, I would never have poured copious amounts of cash into it.

 

I/we've poured more work and money into Nix that all the other cars I've owned COMBINED!

I can't say about husband, he might have put as much work into one of his cars, in fact I'm sure he did, but I'm pretty sure not as much money. Of course, neither of us have owned a car of such pure, unambiguous Class either.
(';')

 

Insurance valuations have little relevance to real world values. I'd be a very rich man if they did.

 

We're really dealing with two different issues here. 1. Sale price over original purchase price, 2. Total investment between purchase and resale.

I don't believe the original question "will the classic XJ market ever take off" necessarily relates to whether or not we have a good investment even if XJ purchase prices rise. Depends how one defines "take off".

Unfortunately I doubt that any of us would recoup the money we've ploughed in after purchase. I know I wouldn't, but I'd reasonably anticipate a small growth over my original purchase price. I doubt that even my previously mentioned examples of two S3's recently selling for circa $15k each would have netted an actual profit for the sellers, but it's likely they got more than they paid originally for the cars.

Same applies to virtually any "classic" except a small handful of exceptions at the high end where values become stupid, like famed artworks. Look at Barratt-Jackson, Mecum auctions etc. Sale prices for many of the generally affordable cars they push out couldn't possibly cover the resto costs invested, much less pull a profit. Houses like Bonhams, Gooding etc. are where the real investor (silly money) cars may change hands with profits made, and that's a different world for most of us.

Will there be a demand for classic cars well into the future is the other question. Conjecture - none of us really knows, but I doubt that nostalgia and passion for things automotive will die completely (so long as we have oil!).

 

The fella from whom we bought Nix spent in excess of $30,000 (I have paperwork) on "resto-version" of the car when it was merely 10 years old in 1986; $6000 on the leather alone! I don't even want to Think about what that paint job cost! And that's 1986 money!

We paid too much at $6000, in September 2013 (but I was Smitten), basically buying the leather while the rest of the car was "free." I say we paid too much because most of the subsequent repairs to make the car safe for the public roads (not to mention operate correctly) are well documented in this section of JagForums, and there are other things that really Should be done.

I was advised not to calculate our "investment" and I haven't to this point, but I'm Sure we have at Least bought the car over again.

Even if I did find some sucker with more cash that sense who was willing to part with $10 big ones (conjuring up this killer deal here), and even if I was in a mood to part with her at that moment, that deal would be a monetary loss.

I agree, Tony, it's the Nostalgia and Passion. In this area we still have live steam farm tractors and locomotives at certain public events, and there's standing room only!

Once in a while some Antique car club has a drive event, gray haired old guys in Beautifully preserved specimens from the 1920s and 1930s, puddling down the road, every one with a Huge grin.

I'll doubtless drive Nix's wheels off as I've done with every other car I've owned (save one), and when she can no longer be made road worthy, I'll give her a quick and merciful end.
(';')

 

Tony is spot-on . . . and if I appeared to disagree, it arose from 2 naughty things . . . introducing 3. Even if so, our market must come off a very low base - in some cases, stupidly low as quoted by Clarke and I, with prices bearing little relationship to condition . . . some being given away. My second naughty was to agree (Doug?) that for us, under-valuation was TERRIFIC . . . meaning enthusiasts can load up yet not destroy the budget. Perhaps not endearing.

Naughty, because though unintended, it dragged us off topic. So, to the topic's question, I should have said simply . . .
"IMHO, and except for the rare XJC and later series XJ8/XJR, not in the manner of any of the following . . .

• all pre-WWII SS models and MkIV and MkVs thereafter;
• all XK120, 140,150,150S; MkVII, MkXVIII, MkIX and MkX;
• all Mk1, Mk2, S Type, 420 and 420G;
• all E-Types (duh!)"
• all other Jaguar models until 2008" . . . . anyway, you get the idea.

My rationale is that the XJ6/12 and even XJ40 were produced in an era when world affluence, especially among business leaders who were the prime new car buyers was exploding and Jaguar sold huge numbers into markets who couldn't get enough. They weren't perfect, but they were far more long lived than most of the above . . . so, many are still around.

Cheers,

Ken

 

In my former career in insurance claims, development of the worth of a car was not an infrequent task. On more than one occasion I was hired as an "Expert" to appraise the value of cars for use in court.


The best definition of ACV, actual cash value that I am aware of is, "the price a willing buyer will pay a willing seller". In my experience usually lower than advertised value.


Auctions appear to be a good source of data. But, are limited. A narrow band of cars are bought and sold there. The audience is specialized. And, emotions have a powerful effect. Many under valued, and many over valued. The participants next morning views would be most interesting.


Just saw a news piece. A big lot surrounded by an electrified fence. Many cars stored there. An auction lot. Mixed inventory of repo's, dealer excess, insurance totals. All "distress sales". Of little or no use in getting a real ACV determination.


And location. As in real estate, it matters, a lot. Sales samples must be in the area of the specimen.


Some of us care as to the ACV of our steeds. We think more than actuality...


Some, like me, care little, until selling time comes or dealing with an insurer. Neither of mine is for sale.


One's ACV is much less now than what I paid for it AS many were made, not hard to determine.


The other is more complex. Far fewer made and sold. And, in the minds of more than a few, a stigma.


Is my Jaguar worth what I paid plus what I have "invested". No way, even if I can't or will not quantify the latter...


Would flipping Jaguars make money???? Doubtful....


Gotta figure out how to get about 12 gallons of gas out of the tank of my Jeep. A siphon hose can't get around a corner in the filler tube and get into liquid!!!
It's plastic tank has no drain!!!
Next, where to tap the a fuel line and use the pump which is working, is not reliable enough to drive.


Carl

 

Heh heh, the methods used by insurance companies to determine pay-out on a total loss....so-called "ACV" ....can really muddy the waters, even with 'agreed value' policies.

The "willing buyer, willing seller" thing is more applicable to "Fair Market Value", in my opinion. Fair market value being an amount agreed on by both parties where neither party is (voluntarily or involuntarily) subjected to unusual circumstances.

A seller who needs money very quickly ...family emergency, let's say....will sell for less than he otherwise would. A buyer who is smitten with nostalgia because the car in question is the exact some color and model as his father owned might pay more than he otherwise would. In these single transaction instances the car is 'worth' whatever the seller can get for it....but that's not the same as market value for a particular type/model of car.

Sure, if we get into ultra low production, high-end collectibles that seldom change hands, a single buy/sell transaction may indeed change the market value for the entire lot....what there is of it. Think BMW507 or Toyota 2000GT. But that's not the case with the Jags we're talking about. Maybe D-types or the XK-SS, but not regulator production models.

IMO......

Whatever kind of car it is, here's the question: what can you sell it for, within 30 days, using normal advertising methods, without any unusual conditions? That's 'market value' for that car.

Cheers
DD

 

Doug:


ACV and FMV are the same or so close as not mattering much, if at all.


Insurors have varying degrees of skill or care in developing ACV. It's been a while,
but, I had a tussle with a leading CA insuror over the ACV of my daughter's Ranger pickup!!! They out sourced the task. More than a couple of flaws in their methodology. I had the skills to challenge them. Unfortunately, most others do not!!!


Carl

 

For us enthusiasts, its always somebody else that runs into us and not the other way round. So if the nitwit even has insurance at all (statistically they say 25% don't), then we're dealing with Geico or other mass discount insurer. For such insurance companies, the general assumption is that anyone driving a 20 or 30 year old car is doing so because that's all they can afford. They're going to look in a database (that's based on a handful of outdated sales and some actuarial formulas) and then give you a lowball offer. Indeed the average person driving a 30 year old car is going to take that first offer because they've got to replace their car as soon as possible or risk missing work or school. They're not going to take the time to seek out another 30 year old car exactly the same as the one they lost, rather they're just going to a nearby subprime used car lot and get whatever they can get with the insurance money. The insurance company wins and the victim loses.

The key for an enthusiast to getting your old car's real value is that you have to have the financial wherewithall to wait them out. You must have something else to drive, the time off work, the patience and some business skills (as Carl suggests) while you turn down offer after offer and work your way through their system. Eventually, they want you off their books and they realize that its costing them more than the few thousand dollars difference of opinion to string you along.

 

My observation/experience is that the ACV pay out from insurance companies is typically close to 'wholesale value' as shown in Kelly Blue Book and other similar price guides.

The rub, and constant grievance is, of course, and as I'm sure Carl can attest to, is that this amount makes it very difficult for the insured to simply go out a replace the car with one of like kind.....as doing so typically requires paying 'retail value' or something close.

And, yes, the end result can rely heavily on the circumstantial ability/inability to 'wait out' a better settlement

We're getting way off topic

Cheers
DD

 

One more and "out".


1. Ca's "Fair Claim Practice" regulations try to aid the consumer. Imperfect. but, in many cases better than zip!!!


2. KBB is an element as it purportedly uses sales data rather than advertising pricing.
And, it's been a whole since I looked, wholesale is but one of the values reported.
So, if I were negotiating with an insurer, I sure would avail myself of those numbers.
But, that is not enough....


Out.


Carl

 

I view my jaguar as an investment in pleasure and it is paying worthy dividends.

 

Have a look at this one at the dealer I bought my current X358 from.

https://hanwells.net/prestige-select...ival-red-6-999

Not a huge sum of money is it !

 

....and there you go, absolutely


I drive my cars as daily drivers, and generally keep them till they disintegrate, or close

.

 

And that definition of "investment" is the only true one relevant to all of us!

 

Interesting S3's currently on carsales.com.au

https://www.carsales.com.au/car/deal...srcx=makemodel