XJ6 & XJ12 Series I, II & III 1968-1992

X-Type - Found On Road, Not Quite Dead

 
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Old 09-09-2016, 04:53 PM
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Default X-Type - Found On Road, Not Quite Dead

(You know I'm getting seriously bored when I start looking at this sort of stuff!)

Yesterday in the local impromptu car lot, appeared a 2002 X-type for sale, 120,000 miles, just SMOGGED, $3895. So this morning I stopped for a look.

I was thinking if it wasn't in too bad condition I might pay a Lot less cash, clean it up, give it a good polish and flip it. 'Twas not to be.



Gas door didn't line up and the bumper trim was gone; easily repaired; yeah, I can do this.



There was a bit of rust just ahead of the left rear wheel; bondo and rust treatment could make that look OK, with full disclosure of course.
I was hopeful.



Seats were well worn and dirty but I could easily clean them and make them presentable again as none of the seams were torn.
I was still hopeful .

It had hit something Hard, bashed the left front fender and creased the very front of the hood just above the grill, also breaking and Losing half the valance, dislodging fender/grill attachments and generally making a hash of the front of the car. In college we called these Whiskey bumps. Notice the gash in the license plate!
Hope was beginning to dim.

Notice also the right headlights have been changed but not the left one in the damaged fender. Maybe if they were disturbed the fender might fall off.







It had spent its life out in the elements and looked it. There were scrapes and scratches on every panel, clear coat on hood, trunk and tops of all doors shedding badly. A complete repaint is needed along with the body and fender repairs.
Little hope now, actually none.



The left front tire was worn on the inside and the inner fender liner partially torn away, perhaps a result of the collision. That could cost a Barrel of money to make safe and right, or even to discover what all is damaged!




Condition is Fair at best. The seller might reasonably expect $1000 if he finds the right sucker, but Certainly not $3900!.

In the end, we decided I don't need another project of that magnitude for what I have in the end, an old Forduar, from which we would Never recover the cost of repairs (probably exactly why it's for sale).

So I left it there.
(';')
 
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Old 09-09-2016, 05:18 PM
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Good decision to walk away Elinor , this cat has suffered a very hard life. With that level of neglect it may never have experienced an oil change either! Always exciting to spot a quick flip potential, but only a small percentage end up being worthwhile. IMO there's just not enough meat on X Type values to make reno costs viable, unless, maybe, the new owner intends to keep it or has some kind of sentimental attachment.
 

Last edited by jagent; 09-09-2016 at 05:23 PM.
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Old 09-09-2016, 05:24 PM
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I agree that this would have been a very bad investment. But the remark about the "Forduar" is a bit harsh.
. You see, the X Type is a superb car, much maligned by those who know nothing about them and loved by those who have owned them (in my case, 3 of them, both manual and automatic) for their reliability, performance, comfort and luxury, and super handling in AWD form. My wife is in year 12 with her daily-use manual X-Type; repairs? ONE: replacement of an oxygen sensor - does that even qualify as a repair?
 
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Old 09-09-2016, 07:59 PM
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It is said that opinions are like certain body parts in that everyone has one. I meant no offense in this post.

I was recently told by someone who was in a position to know, that during Ford's ownership, quality control and production standards at JLR improved Dramatically! In fact, the Billions of US dollars Ford poured into modernizing the factory doubtless saved the brand!

It's unfortunate they also transferred some of their designers over there so that most of the Jaguar line during the Ford years (with the notable exception of the XK8) was nearly indistinguishable from Taurus except for the Leaper on the hood! This also improved sales enormously because the average customer "knew" he was getting a Ford in a fancy dress. We've frequently read as much in the New Members section.

It's undeniable too, that most Jaguars on the road today were built by Ford, a testament to their improved reliability and the vast Ford distribution network.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder they say, so X-types and S-types will always have their fans. But from half a mile away, if ya can't see the Leaper, they're just another Taurus.

This is not the case with BL Jaguars, and TATA to a lesser extent. Everyone knows Instantly and Instinctively, That is a Jaguar!
(';')
 
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Old 09-10-2016, 01:24 AM
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Yes, options are personal but facts are facts. Having been to Browns Lane and having watched Jaguars being built and having been told at the factory that a) Ford provided vast amounts of money and expertise for modernization of the plants and improved quality control, but b) having been told by the people at Jaguar in no uncertain terms that Ford did not design, engineer or build any Jaguars during their ownership (although they did have to approve final designs - and certain parts were shared), I respectfully disagree with most of what you say. I have no trouble ( nor does my wife who is not a car enthusiast) in distinguishing a Jaguar from any other car on the road. Perhaps it is because we also do own a Taurus!
 
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Old 09-10-2016, 02:44 AM
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FWIW I like the X Type, always have. The new breed of Jags just aren't recognizable as such, whereas X Types are immediately identifiable. I haven't owned one but have often aspired to own a 3.0 AWD - they exist in my family and have proven worthy of the leaper in every respect. Fact is they just aren't worth big dollar reno investments - simple economics based on how little they fetch on the lot.

IMHO, it matters not what amount of mixed blood is in just about every modern car if the result is a desirable and reliable product. Most makes interbreed for the purpose of economics and global application, only an extreme few brands may claim a near pure DNA. Pity to get into a squabble over whose dollars went into creating the excellent X Type.
 
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Old 09-10-2016, 05:34 AM
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Originally Posted by jagent View Post
I haven't owned one but have often aspired to own a 3.0 AWD - they exist in my family and have proven worthy of the leaper in every respect.
When we were a young family with one income,one car and motorcycle(s) and two kids that always seemed to need transporting in different directions the MIL had a new 3.0 AWD in British racing green X-type.
She only used it couple of times a week to run to the shop so we pretty much had it 90% of the time, I think we clocked most of its 42000 km in three years.

Most pleasurable car I have driven long term, definitely worthy of the Jaguar name. It was a sad day when she decided it was too big for her and traded it for a BMW 118. We bought a Mazda 3 for day to day stuff (Jeep was too heavy on fuel for the school run), it was a shock to system going back to a UJV.(universal japanese vehicle).

I wouldn't have a second thought about buying one at the right price for myself or one of the kids.

The only problem it had was a transmission failure at 19000km, which Jaguar claimed was from mis-treatment and wanted $12,000 to replace it. In the end it was covered under warranty. 5 months later we got a recall letter for the same fault?
 

Last edited by o1xjr; 09-10-2016 at 05:46 AM.
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Old 09-10-2016, 09:21 AM
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Sad, that someone abused that car so badly. it sure isn't worth anywhere near the asking price. Why do I suspect it is a "salvage titled" car??? Went through a fence or the like. Got an insurance settlement.
Was going to "fix" it. found the insuror was right!!! Fixing more than value!!


A staion car. A "beater", a grocey getter, mebbe.
If the engine and transmission are sound, perhaps a "quicky" fix. If not, crusher, here it comes....


Way back, I participated in a judicial settlement conference. My client's insured's daughter was driving the family Bimmer, I think.
Wearing a pair of those then "stylish", but impossible to walk on platform "shoes"!!! On the GG bridge hit a young guy on his Buell on the way to work. A Jaguar tech none the less. Busted both ankles pretty bad. His boss liked him so much, he kept him on light duty.


According to him, on the rack, these and Taurus are the same.
Not really a slam as the Taurus, although bland, is a good car.


Oh, he told us that at one time, half the shop was dedicated to converting Jaguars to SBC power. In pricey Marin county, wow????


We did reach an agreement and a structured settlement that would pay out over time and boost his income.


I think he decided to give up the Buell.


Carl
 
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Old 09-10-2016, 09:41 AM
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I apologize for causing any offense.
(going back to my room now)
(';')
 
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Old 09-10-2016, 09:57 AM
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OOOOPs, I sure hope my comments have not offended, Dr. Gregory. A really nice guy, and Jaguar expert and devotee of the first order.


If, so, Dr. Gregory, I add my apologies. I can't say from my experience, I've not looked at the underside of either car.


However, I do cringe at V6 power. All of them, yes and unfairly. Just a bias as some just quirky.


Straight sixes, oh yeah, from way back. V8's Same, from way back, even fours, even further back.


Kinda feel sorry for that poor cat, recue it. Tempting, but will not happen!!!


Carl
 
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Old 09-10-2016, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by LnrB View Post

It's unfortunate they also transferred some of their designers over there so that most of the Jaguar line during the Ford years (with the notable exception of the XK8) was nearly indistinguishable from Taurus except for the Leaper on the hood! This also improved sales enormously because the average customer "knew" he was getting a Ford in a fancy dress. We've frequently read as much in the New Members section.

It's undeniable too, that most Jaguars on the road today were built by Ford, a testament to their improved reliability and the vast Ford distribution network.
No idea where you've gotten these ideas, as condescending or snobbish as they inadvertently might be, but the above is patently false. As stated above, opinions are opinions, but facts are facts.

Ford built a grand total of NO Jags during their ownership. None. Zero.

Ford also had NO part in the distribution network. Just try asking for Jag part at a Ford dealership.

Jag and Ford co-designed the S-type platform which Ford used in the short lived LS Lincoln and even shorter lived Thunderbird revival. Ford used the Jaguar designed and built 4.0 V8 engine in these cars -not the other way around. The X-type, shared a platform with the Mondeo but the X type had a unique-to-Jag AWD system. Very advanced.

Neither car has any common components with a Taurus, despite the confused ideas of Joe on the Street. Facts are facts. Go look underneath if you don't believe me.

It's also true that the current sedans that you 'approve of' were designed by Jag during the Ford days, not by TATA. If you can't stand the look of an X-type or S-type, it's the same folks who designed the XF and XJ.

If it's hard for you to stomach 'impure' bloodlines, best not dig too deep on your own car to see where some of the components came from or who designed them.

Better still, don't look at the upcoming Jag models that will no longer have a Jag designed or built engine. The leaper will be gone and replaced by the BMW spinning propeller.

Sorry to be harsh, but that last thing we need on this site are members with an elitist attitude. There's good natured ribbing or teasing but then there's snobbishness. I'll put it down to listening to too many people for too many years that only know a small fraction of what they make out.

For reference here's a Taurus, an S-type, an S-type, an XJ6 and an X-type. If anything, Jag is guilty of copying from it's own designs and not from a car designed decades later. If you can't tell the difference (as a Jag enthusiast), then I don't know what to say.

Peace and love.











 
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Old 09-10-2016, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by LnrB View Post
I apologize for causing any offense.
(going back to my room now)
(';')
No offence taken, either from you or Carl, so no apologies are needed. But here is the issue: many people, spurred on by auto journalists, took their traditional dislike of British cars (which went hand-in-hand with their slavish admiration of German cars) and ran with the Ford ownership theme. If Ford owned Jaguar then Jaguars must have been just badge-engineered Fords, right? Wrong.
All car manufacturers share parts where this is prudent, necessary or desirable. If you knew how many VW and BMW parts are in Bentleys and Rolls, you would be shocked. Jaguar has always borrowed components: from General Motors, for example, the AC compressors, the power steering pumps, and in the HE V12 cars the ignition amplifier module - which, by the way, is the most failure-prone item on the V12 cars...but were the Jaguars with those components Chevrolets?
Yes, the Ford-era Jaguars did share some parts: electrical components, some suspension components, and in the case of the Jaguar V6 engines (excellent engines, by the way) the block and some ancillaries. This was a matter of common sense. But the engines, both the V6 and the superb V8, were designed by Jaguar in all important respects. The 4.2 litre V8 is a bullet-proof engine, used in the XK, the S-type and the XJ, and it is all- Jaguar.
The X-type shares the basic structure with the European Ford which was very highly regarded. But in every finishing detail, in the design, in the ride, in the mechanical refinement, in other words, in the DNA it is all Jaguar, as is the S-type. We may not like the design (I ,for example, am not fond of the S-type) but to claim that these cars are in any way Fords is simply untrue.
The X-Type was the victim of a corporate mistake: a gross over-estimate of the sales, which Jaguar could not possibly meet without proper consumer preparation and proper advertising. In the X-Type period Jaguar was using the absurd, utterly useless "gorgeous" campaign. That one over-used word with glossy brochures showing nothing except photos of urban 30-year -olds sometimes but often not, near a Jaguar. No emphasis on the heritage, quality, performance, mechanical excellence....who would buy a car unsupported by proper advertising? So the auto pundits labelled the X-type as a "failure", a mistake, an unloved car, and the public accepted that opinion. It must be true.

huh? Jaguar sold over 400,000 X-Types! Some failure. And those who have owned them have loved them.
Last week my wife, alone, drove her 2002 manual-shift AWD X-Type on a trip if about 700 kms of mountain and highway driving where there is no Jaguar service at all. Preparation for the trip? I checked the oil (it was full and clean as it always is)', brake/clutch fluid (full and clean as always), coolant level (full and pink as always), checked the tire pressures, and sent her on her way.
Problems? Not a single one. The car didn't miss a beat. I asked her how the Jaguar performed. The answer: "Perfectly. It always does. I love that car"
And it's true. She does love it - it is the second one she has had. And I love my X-type Sportwagon.
So, my qualifications for the opinions expressed? We have owned 32 Jaguars. Regarding Ford-era Jaguars, we have owned a 1990 XJS convertible, a 1992 XJ40, several series III V12 Vanden Plas cars (none of this should be seen as any sort of boasting; it is the admission of a disease for which no cure is wanted, an addiction - we have always owned multiple Jaguars at a time, 4 at present,)... 3 X Types, an X300, an X350, and in fact my 2007 XK was designed during the Ford ownership. All of these cars were, and have been superb, and all different, and not a single one of them has had any resemblance in any way to the Ford Taurus that we also have.
So, yes, let's be clear: Ford saved Jaguar. The millions upon millions of they poured into modernization, quality control etc. enabled Jaguar to produce beautiful, fast, and very reliable cars, and under Tata ownership now, Jaguar is producing cars that are the equal or better than anything on the road. The new XE and the F-pace are receiving rave reviews, and having driven both, I can say that the reviews reflect reality. Now if Jaguar doubles their advertising budget.....More than enough said, I know.
 
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Old 09-10-2016, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by LnrB View Post
I apologize for causing any offense.
(going back to my room now)
(';')
I've been on holiday for a week and during that period WW3 breaks out over a light hearted post.

No need for apologies Elinor. Some members just need to take things a little less seriously.

Graham
 
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Old 09-10-2016, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by LnrB View Post
I apologize for causing any offense.
(going back to my room now)
(';')
No apology needed Elinor, and certainly no offence taken on my part.
The X-Type is simply the nicest car I had the pleasure of driving long term.
 
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Old 09-10-2016, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by o1xjr View Post
No apology needed Elinor, and certainly no offence taken on my part.
 
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Old 09-10-2016, 10:20 PM
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Same here Elinor.

I have had waaaaaay toooooo many Jags, and I am often referred to as a "Sad puppy dog", and I LUV it.

I am NOT a fan of the X Type, no idea why, driven many, just does not fit with me.

I am NOT a fan of the E Type, so, strange I may be, it never did the warm and fuzzies for me, even when I was a kid,

I peferred my MK7, and Original S Type 3.4ltr.

I miss the XJ-S something fierce, but I LUV my current S Types (2) for lots of things, but ease of access for my battered body is on top.

Life is SHORT, enjoy what ya got.
 
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Old 09-10-2016, 10:34 PM
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Thank you, Everyone,
(';')
 
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Old 09-10-2016, 10:38 PM
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some days its better just to watch cat videos than try and post anything :-)
 
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Old 09-11-2016, 07:10 AM
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Elinor.....you couldn't cause offence if you tried!
 
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Old 09-11-2016, 07:39 AM
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Nuttin wrong with a lively discussion as ladies and gentlemen.


Most of us can learn a thong or two.


My daughter claims I am arguementive. True, guilty as charged.
Slowly, I am getting her to realize it is a long standing practice of a way to exchange ideas and learn. Back to antiquity, the Greeks, Romans, etc. And in legislatures here and abroad. The Brit House of
Commons!! I like their approach. Here, in our congress, we are wont to see elected guys and gals reading from staff prepared notes, page by page....


Here, for by far the most part, we are extemporaneous. Any misspeak easily corrected with no fear of electoral consequence.


Carl
 

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