XJ6 S3 Not starting
#1
03-14-2016, 10:27 AM
XJ6 S3 Not starting
Maybe some one has encounter this one. Have series 3 XJ6 1979
It seems I am not getting a spark from cars COIL central terminal when it should have a steady stream of blue spark to an engine earth on cranking.
LT checked at Coil was OK 12VOLTS so replaced COIL (new) and Amp(second hand) CE11 system, lead me to the check distributor wires to amp.
Checked pickup wires ohmns to be 3.5kohmns so OK.
Took dizzy out of its drive and manually spin gave me sparks at Coils central HT lead when earthed with ignition switched on. Had done a static timing check and pickup gap had set at 12 thou.
So how come when I put dizzy back in its drive it spins OK on cranking but no spark results to COIL.
Had tried earthling dizzy with a test wire to engine.
Another thing when I spin of dizzy rotor iron ring out of car on its own to test the pickup in a continuality check did not get any multimeter clicking sound.
Anyone have an answer
It seems I am not getting a spark from cars COIL central terminal when it should have a steady stream of blue spark to an engine earth on cranking.
LT checked at Coil was OK 12VOLTS so replaced COIL (new) and Amp(second hand) CE11 system, lead me to the check distributor wires to amp.
Checked pickup wires ohmns to be 3.5kohmns so OK.
Took dizzy out of its drive and manually spin gave me sparks at Coils central HT lead when earthed with ignition switched on. Had done a static timing check and pickup gap had set at 12 thou.
So how come when I put dizzy back in its drive it spins OK on cranking but no spark results to COIL.
Had tried earthling dizzy with a test wire to engine.
Another thing when I spin of dizzy rotor iron ring out of car on its own to test the pickup in a continuality check did not get any multimeter clicking sound.
Anyone have an answer
#2
03-15-2016, 08:07 PM
Additional information
I am beginning to suspect the ignition switch is the problem.
The car does not crank over every time I try turning the ignition key. Sometimes there if just a click and at other times the starter motor starts. I was putting this down to the gear selector inhibitor switch in park or neutral but now I am getting more suspicious my problem lies with the ignition switch.
On one or two occasions I did saw one spark come off the Coils HT lead when held near the engine earth on cranking, but this one spark only seemed to occur when I let go of ignition switch key where it would spring back. But on the majority of attempts there was no spark. So again this inconsistency leads me to suspect the ignition switch. May need to take this switch out of car to see if it can be fixed if its become faulty.
One test I plan to redo is to measure LT Coils +ve and -ve terminals with a Multimeter on cranking and with amp wire to coil -ve removed to see if these terminals loose significant volts.
Would also like to locate the ignition protection relay on the series 3. I may try a test wire from bat +ve to coil -ve to bypass ignition relay and see what happens to Coils HT lead on cranking.
Any advice welcome.
The car does not crank over every time I try turning the ignition key. Sometimes there if just a click and at other times the starter motor starts. I was putting this down to the gear selector inhibitor switch in park or neutral but now I am getting more suspicious my problem lies with the ignition switch.
On one or two occasions I did saw one spark come off the Coils HT lead when held near the engine earth on cranking, but this one spark only seemed to occur when I let go of ignition switch key where it would spring back. But on the majority of attempts there was no spark. So again this inconsistency leads me to suspect the ignition switch. May need to take this switch out of car to see if it can be fixed if its become faulty.
One test I plan to redo is to measure LT Coils +ve and -ve terminals with a Multimeter on cranking and with amp wire to coil -ve removed to see if these terminals loose significant volts.
Would also like to locate the ignition protection relay on the series 3. I may try a test wire from bat +ve to coil -ve to bypass ignition relay and see what happens to Coils HT lead on cranking.
Any advice welcome.
Last edited by KenXJ; 03-15-2016 at 08:10 PM.
#3
03-15-2016, 08:51 PM
Veteran Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Pacific Northwest USA
Posts: 24,743
Received 10,757 Likes
on
7,101 Posts
I am beginning to suspect the ignition switch is the problem.
The car does not crank over every time I try turning the ignition key. Sometimes there if just a click and at other times the starter motor starts. I was putting this down to the gear selector inhibitor switch in park or neutral but now I am getting more suspicious my problem lies with the ignition switch.
The car does not crank over every time I try turning the ignition key. Sometimes there if just a click and at other times the starter motor starts. I was putting this down to the gear selector inhibitor switch in park or neutral but now I am getting more suspicious my problem lies with the ignition switch.
This might be helpful:
Engine Will Not Crank Checklist
On one or two occasions I did saw one spark come off the Coils HT lead when held near the engine earth on cranking, but this one spark only seemed to occur when I let go of ignition switch key where it would spring back. But on the majority of attempts there was no spark. So again this inconsistency leads me to suspect the ignition switch. May need to take this switch out of car to see if it can be fixed if its become faulty.
Would also like to locate the ignition protection relay on the series 3. I may try a test wire from bat +ve to coil -ve to bypass ignition relay and see what happens to Coils HT lead on cranking.
The ignition protection relay nothing to do with starting or running. It powers up some of the accessory circuits (like wipers, rear defog, etc) to 'protect' the ignition switch from heavy loads.
I may try a test wire from bat +ve to coil -ve
^^ this is a good idea except you want to battery +ve to coil +ve
Cheers
DD
#4
03-18-2016, 04:25 AM
Veteran Member
#5
03-18-2016, 07:40 AM
Veteran Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Walnut Creek, California
Posts: 6,796
Received 2,399 Likes
on
1,880 Posts
Jose:
Agreed. I removed mine and opened it. Super worn, congealed goop
and parts lost!!!1 Heavy key rings do them in. Well, as stated elsewhere, 30 years of service, not bad.
A good used taut one via David Boger fixed so many ills. Including, but not least, a radio that went staticy at times....
Now, taut and all works so much better.
Carl
Agreed. I removed mine and opened it. Super worn, congealed goop
and parts lost!!!1 Heavy key rings do them in. Well, as stated elsewhere, 30 years of service, not bad.
A good used taut one via David Boger fixed so many ills. Including, but not least, a radio that went staticy at times....
Now, taut and all works so much better.
Carl
#6
03-18-2016, 09:59 PM
Veteran Member
#7
03-19-2016, 08:11 AM
Veteran Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Walnut Creek, California
Posts: 6,796
Received 2,399 Likes
on
1,880 Posts
Yeah, I've a tin box full of the guts and stuff from the old one and parts
of another. I tried to fix the old one. Lost two or three teeny *****!!
Working over a pan, not good enough. Working in situ!!!!!
Well, if I had seen Grant's pot on working in a bag, I might have
had a chance....
But, even if I got the electrics in order, the slop would remain....
Carl
of another. I tried to fix the old one. Lost two or three teeny *****!!
Working over a pan, not good enough. Working in situ!!!!!
Well, if I had seen Grant's pot on working in a bag, I might have
had a chance....
But, even if I got the electrics in order, the slop would remain....
Carl
Trending Topics
#8
03-20-2016, 08:00 AM
#9
03-20-2016, 08:42 AM
[QUOTE=Doug;1422848]This might be helpful:
Engine Will Not Crank Checklist
Thanks the engine does crank over when the ignition key is turned although on some occasions this is intermittent with just a click heard (like a relay or solenoid) and on others it cranks over with the pre-engaged starter motor turning.
But on the subject of loose wires. According to my circuit diagram there should be 5 wires going to coil. These are also decribed in JagBits to the following link http://www.jagbits.com/nostart.html : two are from the amp (183), one to ECU (293), one to Tach (95), one to ignition switch (38). Note my XJ6 S3 USES CE1 System and I never saw a ballast resister plate on or near the coil. It had instead a plastic 3 prong connector that harnesses 3 of the wires to the coil (one white(+ve), one white/blue spiral strips (to ECU?) and one White/blue/grey (to Tach?) .
I decided to took at the ECU fuel injection control unit connector off to get at its earth no1 pin in its long connector to see if it was the same as the white with blue spiral strips wire going to the coil -ve side. I used a long test lamp wire between no 1 pin of the ECU connector and the coils -ve terminal white/blue stripped wire but lamp did not light up which I had expected it to do. Did not have key in ignition thou at the time. Should the ECU No 1 also connect to coil. Could this be a broken wire. May be I should retest the White/blue/grey to see if that the wire to the ECU.
What do you think or am I barking up the wrong tree
Engine Will Not Crank Checklist
Thanks the engine does crank over when the ignition key is turned although on some occasions this is intermittent with just a click heard (like a relay or solenoid) and on others it cranks over with the pre-engaged starter motor turning.
But on the subject of loose wires. According to my circuit diagram there should be 5 wires going to coil. These are also decribed in JagBits to the following link http://www.jagbits.com/nostart.html : two are from the amp (183), one to ECU (293), one to Tach (95), one to ignition switch (38). Note my XJ6 S3 USES CE1 System and I never saw a ballast resister plate on or near the coil. It had instead a plastic 3 prong connector that harnesses 3 of the wires to the coil (one white(+ve), one white/blue spiral strips (to ECU?) and one White/blue/grey (to Tach?) .
I decided to took at the ECU fuel injection control unit connector off to get at its earth no1 pin in its long connector to see if it was the same as the white with blue spiral strips wire going to the coil -ve side. I used a long test lamp wire between no 1 pin of the ECU connector and the coils -ve terminal white/blue stripped wire but lamp did not light up which I had expected it to do. Did not have key in ignition thou at the time. Should the ECU No 1 also connect to coil. Could this be a broken wire. May be I should retest the White/blue/grey to see if that the wire to the ECU.
What do you think or am I barking up the wrong tree
#10
03-20-2016, 10:17 AM
Veteran Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Pacific Northwest USA
Posts: 24,743
Received 10,757 Likes
on
7,101 Posts
[QUOTE=KenXJ;1425553]
Which is why I mentioned the checklist, to possibly cure the intermittent no-cranking
Not all the CEI cars had the resistor. And sometimes the resistors were thrown over the hedge when they gave trouble
The tach wire should be white/slate/blue.
The wire going to the ECU should be white/black. The black might've faded a bit over the years. It runs aft along the water rail.
The white/black wire (which seems to have faded to white/blue in your case) is not an earth/ground. It's the 'trigger'/pulse wire that tells the ECU the engine is running
The grounds/earth are all at the rear of the water rail---a bundle of about six black wires. These are all for the fuel injection system
Are the injectors clicking when crank the engine? If 'yes', then I'd suggest going back to the ignition system as, in the first post, you said that you had no spark most of the time.
Cheers
DD
This might be helpful:
Engine Will Not Crank Checklist
Thanks the engine does crank over when the ignition key is turned although on some occasions this is intermittent with just a click heard (like a relay or solenoid)
Engine Will Not Crank Checklist
Thanks the engine does crank over when the ignition key is turned although on some occasions this is intermittent with just a click heard (like a relay or solenoid)
But on the subject of loose wires. According to my circuit diagram there should be 5 wires going to coil. These are also decribed in JagBits to the following link http://www.jagbits.com/nostart.html : two are from the amp (183), one to ECU (293), one to Tach (95), one to ignition switch (38). Note my XJ6 S3 USES CE1 System and I never saw a ballast resister plate on or near the coil. It had instead a plastic 3 prong connector that harnesses 3 of the wires to the coil (one white(+ve), one white/blue spiral strips (to ECU?) and one White/blue/grey (to Tach?) .
Not all the CEI cars had the resistor. And sometimes the resistors were thrown over the hedge when they gave trouble
The tach wire should be white/slate/blue.
The wire going to the ECU should be white/black. The black might've faded a bit over the years. It runs aft along the water rail.
I decided to took at the ECU fuel injection control unit connector off to get at its earth no1 pin in its long connector to see if it was the same as the white with blue spiral strips wire going to the coil -ve side. I used a long test lamp wire between no 1 pin of the ECU connector and the coils -ve terminal white/blue stripped wire but lamp did not light up which I had expected it to do. Did not have key in ignition thou at the time. Should the ECU No 1 also connect to coil. Could this be a broken wire. May be I should retest the White/blue/grey to see if that the wire to the ECU.
The white/black wire (which seems to have faded to white/blue in your case) is not an earth/ground. It's the 'trigger'/pulse wire that tells the ECU the engine is running
The grounds/earth are all at the rear of the water rail---a bundle of about six black wires. These are all for the fuel injection system
What do you think or am I barking up the wrong tree
Are the injectors clicking when crank the engine? If 'yes', then I'd suggest going back to the ignition system as, in the first post, you said that you had no spark most of the time.
Cheers
DD
