Hello All,

I just purchased my first Jaguar and I'm trying to get it running. I bought it this way, so I've never heard it running before and I don't know how long it's been sitting. I've been told since November, but I'm not sure if that's true. The dusty interior makes it look like a barn find and it was last registered 5 years ago.

Here is what I've done so far:

I had the car towed to my house, and the battery was diagnosed as good and fully charged by autozone. (Note - The trunk smells like gasoline)

I have spongy brakes that hardly work, but before I put money into re-doing all that I want to get it running. I know a car needs compression, fuel and spark, but am not 100% sure how to test for all that on a Jag. Also, I have a timing light.

Spark:
Can I use the timing light to check for spark? If it flashes, does that mean my ignition is good?

Fuel:
Before I try starting the car, I was thinking of pulling a spark plug out and checking if it's dry. Then, I'll put it back in, try to start, pull it out and check if its soaked in gas. Is that a good enough test?

Compression:
I can borrow one of these gauges from autozone, but will need to know how to turn off the injectors. I think all I have to do for the fuel pump is pull a fuse. Finally, how to stop the ignition system from getting spark.

Anything else that I should look at? The car turns over but doesn't sound like it is firing or trying to fire at all.

Thanks!

 

Try the simple things first and dry / wet plug as you say above is a good place to start. But before that turn ignition on but do not run the starter motor and listen for the fuel pump, it should run for a few secs. And for the strobe light try directly at the lead from the coil feeding the dizzy. Then post back here.

 

As Per said, 100%.

The priming of the fuel pump is critical, and MUST be established. there is an inertia switch on the inside of the "A" pillar that will kill the fuel pump circuit if it is tripped, so a simple reset (pull the plunger up and push it back down) will eliminate it from the scenario.

Spark:

YES, connect the light to the coil lead, crank the engine, if it flashes, the system is working that far. Then move it to any plug lead, and observe flashing again.

Injectors:

Now, with ignition in the ON position, turn the throttle capstan fairly quickly (the wheel in the middle at the rear of the engine), LISTEN, and you should hear the injectors "click" as that wheel is turned. If so, the injectors are at least working to a point.

Fuel:

The fuel inlet pipe is the hose on the RH side of the rail. Remove the connection (twin nut arrangement), push a hose over the end of the hose connector as best you can, with the other end in a can outside the car. Turn on the ignition, and observe the presence of fuel in the can. Do this a few times. This will flush the fuel line a bit, and also establish the pump is actually pumping fuel.

FUEL SPILLAGE WILL OCCUR, SO TAKE CARE PLEASE.

The boot (trunk) smelling of gas is a concern, and also quite normal, to a degree. Dont worry heaps about it just yet. It may only be dried up seals on the sump tank tank and fuel sender. It may be a weeping tank, which will be addressed later, once engine integrity is established. If raw fuel is seen, STOP, this will be tooooo scary, even for me.

The list here will be very long, but as already mentioned, basics will get that beast running.

 

HOW RUDE OF ME, DAMN.

WELCOME to our world, my apologies for that major slip of the brain.

 

Today I had a friend put the ignition in 2 and I heard the fuel pump come on, or something buzzing under the battery. I didn't hear anything from the filler cap. I noticed a few wires not connected to anything and I'm not sure what they are for (see photo). Also, there were sparks coming from the + battery post and the plastic looked a little burnt. I got a bit worried about this so I stopped trying anything and disconnected the batter. I realized the PO didn't have the battery tightened, rather the cables just on there. The car didn't turn over this time, just clicked near the engine.

My dash battery gauge comes on, but everything else stays at 0. I wonder if there is even gas in it, or the gauge is broken. I guess if I throw in 5 gallons of premium it won't hurt, but I need to make sure I have oil in that motor first.

I cannot see much oil on the dipstick, but the car is at a slight slope (engine downward).

Also, I'm not sure where to jack this car up. My floor jack will not clear the front bumper if I try to lift it at the front suspension cross member.

I bought a spark tester that connects to the spark plug, but boy are they hidden! I cannot figure out an easy way to attach it without disassembling everything.

This car is starting to make me very nervous. I don't want an electrical/fuel fire to happen at my house. I attached some photos. I was hoping to fix it up and give it to my dad when he gets back at the end of this month. I'm not sure that's going to happen anymore as I might be a bit in over my head. I just want to get this thing running and know the engine and trans are fine before I start throwing money at it.

Attached are photos of all the problems that I see to date.

 

Damn, you do have a sad and neglected car there.

That rubber hose MUST be fixed before attempting anymore starting. If it fires with that like that, the engine speed will too high and uncontrolled.

"Not connected", no idea at teh moment.

"Found under the inlet.....", also no idea at the moment.

"Rear passengers side .....". Part of the pollution equipment, and definately NOT stopping it starting. It could have issues maybe, once running, with vac leaks, maybe.

"Small filter ......", is NORMAL, and is the other end of the distributor breathing system.

"Very low oil......" is a concern, but with 10ltrs in the sump, maybe not as scary as it could be. Oil around the rear centre is guaranteed to be one of teh 2 oil switches back there, or even both of them.

"Burnt battery....." is just plain slack attack. The terminals must be clean and tight, NO rocket science here, and nothing to do with Jaguar.

If you doubt there is gas in it, put some in it. the fuel pump will seize solid if it is run dry, FACT.

My looking at the few snaps so far, reminds me of one I got hold of many years ago. It took me 3 months to get it right, and the wife still drives it today, and it is sitting near 550000kms on the clock. That is the S2 XJ12 in my garage.

You will not get this sorted in "quicky time". SORRY if that is not the answer you want, just my experience with V12's, tells me you have a huge task ahead of you, but if the rest of the "cosmetics" are sweet, then it will be worth it.

 

The interior needs re-upholstering, center console wood is cracked (typical), and I think I can salvage the carpet by washing it.

The exterior clearcoat is pealing and needs repaint.

The positives are, that I purchased this car from the original owner, have the original window sticker with the service books, and it apparently has the US lister package (I think this is just appearance, no fancy engine or suspension). I don't know how to verify if this is indeed factory original, but the paint looks like a match on the rest of the car.

Also, the break reservoir is very low. I have no idea how to lift this car in my backyard. I bought this jack and still cannot clear the front bumper. The jack itself fits under the car, but the handle cannot be lifted because of that bumper:

3 ton Heavy Duty Floor Jack with Rapid Pump®

 

I'd hate to have to part out a car with all this potential (original sticker, 1 owner, books, service history, etc)

 

I have the same jack and I have to drive the front tires up onto a piece of 2x6 to give me enough room to clear the front spoiler. Another option is to use the scissor jack on one of the front jacking points behind the tire to raise one side enough to get the big jack underneath.

It looks like you have a major restoration project ahead of you. It's all well and good having the window sticker, service history etc. but by the looks of things there hasn't been much servicing going on!!

I will almost guarantee that what you have found so far is just the tip of the iceberg. I hope you didn't pay very much for the car!!

Good on you for bringing a great car back to life

Cheers,

Allan

 

A Lister is a rare breed. There were some which were 5.3 and seriously tuned but I suspect any US model would have cosmetics only. There are some guys restoring Listers right now in the UK, log on to the jagforums.co.uk xjs section. As Grant has said it looks neglected but if the body is good and basic mechanics ditto then it will be worthwhile IMHO.

The vac hose under the lh manifold is connected to the throttle body and as such a vac source, althogh off hand I cannot remember where it goes first. I would simply plug any vac connection at the manifold for now, fix any fuel an coolant hoses and concentrate on getting the engine started. When it does and oil pressure is good and no rattles time for a full check and replace of dodgy items in engine compartment. Assume a brake overhaul is on the cards. Time for a test drive and planning ahead. Good luck and we are here to help as much as we can.

 

If you were just a little closer and if we weren't in the middle of hay season where I spend every minute of my free time tossing hundreds of bales of hay into my barn, I'd toss my tools in the back of my truck and come down and help.

BEFORE you go ANY FURTHER...stop and take a good hard look under the car for rust. Pull up the rugs and look at the floor boards. You do not want to be putting a lot of time and money into a car that may have terminal rust cancer underneath!

 

If body is clean and not rusty, all of the above are minor issues.
I am sure all fuel hoses have to be replaced, even the low pressure ones.

 

Responses:
AllanG - Thanks for the advice with the jack and wood. I put some air in the tires and was just able to clear the front bumper. Before I lift it, does my photo look safe? I am not putting a block of wood between the jack and car. I'm worried it might shatter, and I feel safer without.

Per - thank you! Fuel hoses wouldn't keep the car from starting, right? As far as I can tell, the fuel pump primes the car, and I don't see any leaks. I'd like to make sure its running ok (while watching carefully for leaks ofcourse) before I spend $300+ on fuel lines.

JameyXJ6 - Farm life sounds awesome! I truly appreciate the offer to help if you were nearby. There is much that I have yet to learn on the V12. The car has no serious rust, so I feel it is worth saving. My fingers are crossed that the big items (motor) are healthy. I definitely took a gamble, but worth the risk if all checks out IMO. I think I can part it for what I paid (900) if the motor is shot but even then, the original paperwork and Lister package is just too cool to throw away.

Mish Mish - Rust is the first thing I checked for. It's not bad. There are two 1" bubbles in the paint that I think I can sand out and patch up on my own. The floors are solid with no rust. The lines will definitely be replaced once this car is running.
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Maintenance history:

In 2005, the car passed state inspection. Inspection expired in 2007. This is the last documentation I have on the car, and it might be the last time it was driven daily.

It appears the car has a history of trouble starting. In 2004 about 4,000 miles ago (76,000 miles), the car was towed into a shop because it didn't start. The battery was charged, starter and battery connections were cleaned and it was noted that the car restarts good. I'm not sure this cleaning fixed the problem, or it was "just by chance". The sparking at the + terminal makes me wonder if something is shorting. When I lift the car, I'll check the connections near the starter. It only sparked when I tried to start, but I didn't have the connection tightened so maybe that's it.

Further back, in August 2002 the car was towed to Jaguar with the notes "Customer states car will not start, battery replaced & car still does not start. Checked for 7 days car started every time car was checked. Interior light fuse was replaced"

Even further back, in June 2002, Jaguar dealer states "car towed in - checked and found battery dead. Checked charging system - ok"

In April 2000 Jaguar states "customer states car towed in battery dead, found battery dead

Rear brake pads replaced 12,000 miles ago, front suspension/bushings replaced 10,000 miles ago. rs-000009-yc plug 41058 pack (spark plugs), dist cap, rotor arm, ign lead set, air filters replaced in 1999 @ 61,710 miles. Other work done including replacement of fuel tank in 1999 (recall?), center wood trim refurbish, etc that I left out because I felt it might not be relevent to this no start issue.

My conclusion:
I think the interior lights had a short somewhere, and the PO completely disconnected them because the wires are cut and taped. The no start history might not be relevant to my current no start problem, as the battery is fully charged. There are burn marks though, but two auto parts suppliers tested the battery and both say it is good. (see photo)
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My plans/status:

Because the oil is so low on the dipstick, I will not try to start the car until the oil filter I ordered comes in (Mahle), and I do an oil chance. This way I know exactly how much oil is in there. I also borrowed a compression tester so that I can check the condition of the motor. Surprisingly, the trans fluid is nice, clean pink and full. I'm not sure how to measure the coolant, but its visible with the cap off so there is coolant in there.

Also, I cut the damaged AAV/instake manifold hose off the intake. (what should be an easy job took me a good 30 minutes) I'll take it to the local parts store and see if they can find a suitable replacement. I'll replace all the hoses (fuel included) once I get this car running.

 

I can't quite tell from your photo but if you are under the front suspension crossmember, you are in the right spot. I would definitely use a block of wood to help spread the load.

On my car which is 6 cyl, there is a round protrusion right in front of the X-brace that you can see in the picture below. This is my jacking point. Also my car happens to be up on jacks right now for a detail so I added a photo for you to see where to place the jacks which is VERY important as there are not that many load bearing spots around the car.





Hope that helps.

Cheers,

Allan

 

I would place some kind of softening gasket over jack.
In my case, original front crossmember started crackling and folding

 

Thanks you two! I cut a small board and have the car on jack stands now. Tomorrow I will cut a hose and install that on the intake to valve cover (to replace the cracked one in the above photo).

I will also drain the oil and see how much is in there, along with a filter change.

I attached a photo of the battery burn (center of the battery).

Also, I'm not sure if the inertia switch is ok or tripped?

Finally, here are two wires near the fuel sender that are not connected. They follow the same harness as the fuel sender.

Once I get that vacuum hose on, with fresh oil I will attempt to start it again while checking the ignition wires with a timing light.

The final photo are connectors near the passenger side rear tail light. I Don't believe they are important since the antenna was removed (I still have it), so they are probably for that.

 

I replaced that cut vacuum hose on the intake manifold - still no start

I tried to siphon the old gas, but it turns out the gas tank was empty. I did have fuel in the lines. I added two gallons of premium to the tank - still no start

Also, the battery was bad. It had the right voltage, but didn't start my other car. I replaced the battery with a known good battery - still no start

While cranking the engine, I had a timing light connected to a random spark plug lead. The timing light is flashing, indicating that I have current going to the spark plugs. The car is not starting while this is happening.

Can I test the fuel pressure right after the fuel filter? It seems like an easy spot to tap in a fuel pressure gauge. I will also pull one of the injector wires off and check with a noid light.

I suppose my firing order could be off. I will follow the leads to the distributor cap. My Haynes manual has a diagram with numbers so I'll make sure they are all in order. Since I have power going to the leads, where should I check next?

Thanks!

 

You could, yes.

Normally the pressure measurement is taken at the fuel rail (by cutting open the left fuel hose and tee-ing into it) between the inlet and outlet fuel regulators. This tells you the pressure that the injectors are actually seeing.

If you tee into the fuel hose downstream of the filter your result will reflect pressure supplied *to* the inlet regulator. This result might not reflect what the injectors are seeing, as they're located after the inlet regulator. Of course, if you get a zero reading your fuel pump is dead or the fuel filter is 100% clogged. If you get a very high reading, like 60-80-100 psi, then one of your regulators is stuck closed.

I believe the spec is 36 psi and the test is made while cranking the engine.






Good.





You're already on the right track by checking firing order, fuel pressure, and injector pulse. Post back if no joy.

Cheers
DD

 

Those wires in the 3rd picture that aren't connected look like the fuel pump wires. Are you sure that the fuel pump is connected? The inertia switch should be down and looks like it is.

 

I thought so also, BUT, in post #5 he states he hears a buzzing under the battery when in the IGN position, so maybe not.

From memory, the +ve wire to the pump is a Brown/Black wire, but I might be wrong as it has been a while.