Hi All,

I'm new to jags and jaguarforum. Ended up picking up a 95 XJS 2+2 Inline 6 AJ16 with 70,000 miles for $4.5k over the Labor Day weekend in Cleveland. Purchased from a family friend and was told there was no mechanical work to be done but Interior leather is cracking and tearing apart. Since it was Labor Day weekend there weren't any shops I could take it to while I was in town (huge mistake) but I did have a few mechanically experienced uncles check it out. They recommended I get the car checked out upon my return and I promptly drove the car 300+ miles to my home Northern VA.

Drove fine the entire way to VA. I started to commute with it the day after I returned and had my first issue...the car would start fine but while driving in my neighborhood it felt like the engine "hiccuped" and check engine light blinked on. Took foot off the gas then put down on the gas again and the check engine light turned off and seemed to drive fine. On my commute there is significant highway travel. No issues on the highway.

Took the car to a Jaguar Specialist because they offered a free oil change for new customers and asked them to check the car out. After lifting it, first thing the mechanic said was that the Transmission Mount needed to be replaced (turns out there is no transmission mount whatsoever). Then he checked out the rest of the car and mentioned several leaks and regular maint. that should be done since it's an almost 20 year old car. I asked them to run a diagnostic and give it a full check to let me know what would need to be done.

I was quite shocked to learn of the nice list of work that is necessary. All prices are Parts and Labor without Tax.
Replace Master Air Flow Meter - $550
Replace Thermostat (did not specify which) - $196
Replace Sub Frame Mount - $644
Replace Lower Radiator Hose - $452
Replace Transmission Mount - $404
Replace Pinion Seals - $320
Replace Coolant Hose - $365
Fix Exhaust Leak - $226
Replace Rear Bushings - $488

I was not expecting to have to do over $3,645 worth of work on the car immediately after purchasing it. Have definitely learned my lesson to make darn sure I get a car checked out before purchasing it (pretty crappy lesson to learn!).

Many thanks to Vee who has been my mentor on JagForums and who suggested I create a new thread to see if other members have experience with doing this much work and whether I can learn to do any of this on my own.

I want to do enough work to be able to drive the car and not be a safety hazard to others or myself. I can live with any issues that don't absolutely have to get addressed and simply tackle those at a later time. If any of you would like to share any advice and/or your thoughts on this please feel free! I am concerned that I bit off way more than I can afford to chew but do not want to give in so easily as I do believe this is a beautiful car.

Thanks for your help!
-Dnga8

 

Your list is very typical of an XJS purchase.

Which rear bushings are you referring to and is the pinion seal the diff?

If you are mechanically minded a lot of these can be tackled yourself.

 

Well first thing I have to ask is weather you are willing to do some work yourself and save a grand or two. Most of these issues are pretty easy for a DIY person. Second, I would do a little research on the air flow meter (I don't own an aj6 car myself) but if it is actually bad you should be able to source a secondhand one for around $100, and the install should be really easy. The lower radiator hose and coolant hoses are the same thing. Any person with a screwdriver should be able to replace all of them in a few hours at most. The prices for those two are outrageous. Buy a coolan hose set from captain jag on eBay, coventry west, or sng Barrett, should be in the $70 range for the whole set, I would do them all as it is worth every penny. While you have the hoses off, you can replace the thermostat as you would have drained the coolent, this is in the $15-$20 range max.

The subframe mounts are only $20 each and you just need a car jack and some wrenches.

I would suggest you take the exhaust to a muffler shop as they will be cheaper.

All in all you can knock out a bunch of these yourself with basic tools and save yourself some $ and learn how to do somethings yourself. You might even be able to recruit a friend or two to help.

I would research each item here an jag-lovers.org as there are write ups on most of the more complex items.

Enjoy!

 

First of all congrats on your new Jag

You certainly got a reasonably low mileage car at what would seem like a good price but based on some of your descriptions, it looks to me that the car has not been particularly well maintained and that is good cause to be cautious. Normally buying an older Jag that is quite cheap means doing a lot of catch up maintenance. If you don't do this yourself it can get very pricey as I'm sure you are finding out.

Will this car be a daily driver for you or just something to play around with? If it is the former then I would suggest doing all of the basic things to get a good baseline. So change fluids, filters, hoses, plugs etc.

Next get a hold of an OBDII scanner if you can or maybe go to a big box parts store where they will download any trouble codes that are stored in the ECU (for free). This may give you a picture of some of the possible problem areas. You can then decide which are important to fix now.

Beware of Jaguar specialists bearing free oil changes!! They will get their pound of flesh somewhere and by the looks of the list he gave you, they will be feasting!!

You can do almost all of the things on his list yourself with very basic tools, even if you have never worked on cars before. Just take your time. You will save a TON of money too. For instance a lower radiator hose is about $25 and will take you a couple of hours to replace at most. Beats $452 any day!!

Use this forum to get help when needed and you will have a wonderful car that will give you a lot of pleasure for many years to come.

Cheers,

Allan

 

I think that around $8000 (when fixed) for a '96 convertible is not bad a price........

 

Have always done my own work going back to an old MK Vll forty odd years ago so i'm probably well out of touch but those prices quoted border on highway robbery.

 

There are three routes I see available to you.

1. Get a second opinion. Are the rear bushings failing, failed, or just look bad? It may end up crossing some of the things off this list. That really just delays the inevitable, so perhaps there are really two options, as follows:

2. Invest about $500 in tools and equipment and do this stuff yourself. Assuming you have nothing, you'll need:
a. a mechanic's set, I'd recommend a six point set, obviously making sure you have a full compliment of metric sockets. Sears sells these sets for about $150. (I might have gone with Lowe's Kobalt brand if I had to do it all over again)
b. Jack stands and a low profile hydraulic jack. I'd shop at Harbor Freight for these. Craigslist could be even better.
c. You'll also need a Torx head set. I'd recommend socket style, but you can also just buy the tips that fit at the end of a screwdriver. You'll need T25, T27, T30, T40 and perhaps T50. Not all sets come with the T27. Again, Harbor Freight would be ok here.
d. While you're at it, pozi-drive heads. They look like Phillips head screwdriver tips, but they are different and designed to fit the heads of all screws in your car. (and Ikea's as well)
e. Miscellaneous. You'll need something to dump coolant, oil, etc. in occasionally. That would be useful. Make sure you also have some anti-seize and you're eventually going to need to buy some socket extensions as well.

Anyways, I think that's about a $500 investment that you will use again and again, and I'm not just talking about the for the car. If you price these parts out, I think you would be in the $500 neighborhood. Perhaps a bit more. Parts and tools could get you to $1,000. (assuming you have none) So we're talking $2,500 for the convenience of having someone else do it for you. That's a decision only you can make. (Remember, you get to keep the tools if you go the DIY route, you don't get anything to keep if you pay the shop)

3. Bite the bullet and dole out the $3,500 and, as a previous posted said, $8k for a '95 XJS with your mileage is still a good price. I paid $8,300 for my 96 with just under 60k miles on it. As we discussed earlier, it was in better shape.

Your shop knows Jags. I am familiar with them, since I have used them in the past. I think they are very conservative in terms of pointing out things that are going bad on the car. Some people see rubber with some cracking on the exterior and they immediately assume it's gone bad and needs replacing. I don't find that is often the case. (they told me I needed new tires because it had hairline cracks on the sidewall. The tires were almost new!)

Maybe you want to keep taking your car there, maybe you want to find another mechanic. Nothing on your list would be anything that any other mechanic couldn't fix. At this point there's nothing here that screams for any kind of "specialist"... other than the exhaust leak, but we're not talking Jag specialist, but exhaust specialist.

(BTW, I still think you buy the MAF somewhere and install it yourself, that won't take you 20 minutes with minimal tools)

I'd look to take care of the radiator hoses and MAF/thermostat sooner than later. You will have to take care of the exhaust leak before you get your inspection. After that, I think you start planning to knock off the mounts and pinion seal. I think once you start working around this car, you'll realize it's not as complicated as you think...especially once you have the tools to get it done!

Good luck and keep us posted!

 

Hello welcome to the forums.

1-The MAF is part LHE1620AA for your car. They go used on ebay for as little as 90 dollars and I have seen new old stock units pop up for 200-300. Changing this out takes 20 minutes or less.

2-the thermostat is 30 dollars and again a few minutes to change

3-Exhaust shops usually fix leaks for very small amounts of money.

The prices that you have given seem excessive to say the least. The AJ16 cars are very easy to work on. Anyone with any kind of mechanical inclination will be pleasantly surprised. Also the hiccup that you speak if seems more like a ignition coil miss which are very common on these cars.

 

+1 on Vee's suggestions although I would add a set of metric wrenches and a basic DVM to the list, you will find them essential.

Perhaps as a temporary strategy you could consider doing the following.

1. It is quite likely that family, friends, neighbours etc may have a lot of these tools, jacks, jack stands, perhaps you could borrow them one weekend and knockout out many of the issues without investing a lot of money?

2. Are you sure the MAFS needs to be replaced? People often assume they have gone bad but I don't think that is typically the case. Most often they just need to have the connections checked and cleaned and a bit of MAFS cleaner sprayed inside the body. Easy, dead cheap and 9 times out of 10 sorts any MAFS perceived problems.

3. Coolant hoses. Agree with others, important to get these replaced if necessary. While you're at it, sensible to replace the thermostat and flush and refill with new coolant. Fairly cheap, very few tools required and can easily be done in a few hours or maybe a day if you replace every single hose.

4. Pinion seals. If you are talking about the diff seals, it is very, very common that these have a small, slow leak. Not a huge issue in of itself so long as you ensure fluid levels in the diff. Obviously if the leak is significant you will want to address it sooner rather than later. If you are talking about the steering rack, this is also common. I would start by adding some Stop Leak, which will often shore up the leak.

5. I'm not sure which rear bushings you are referring to? As Vee stated, have they failed or are they just looking a bit worn? Big difference. This applies to the subframe mount too.

6. Transmission mount. I would fix this quickly as it also supports the rear of the engine as well as the transmission. Many people have substituted a simple solid mount from another car. Very cheap, though you may have to get an adaptor plate made locally to install it. Again, quite cheap.

The above will require a minimum cash investment and a weekend of your time. After that you can decide if you are comfortable keeping the car and if not you may be able to sell it without taking a bath and maybe even getting a small return if the interior is not too tatty.

One thing is for sure, these cars require owner involvement. If you do the work yourself it is quite reasonable. If you farm it out, you will double and triple your original investment in fairly short order as I suspect you will continue to find other issues. The good news is that once these cars are brought up to par and well maintained, they are very reliable indeed

Cheers,

Allan

 

8 large for a '95 convertible with 70K is a terrific price. Do the work yourself and save a fortune, as others here have suggested. Don't be afraid to learn about your car and get your hands dirty.

 

I have the upmost respect for Allen, but I disagree in the use of any Stop Leak product. It usually kicks the can down the road incurring more pain and suffering (financially) later.

I absolutely agree that a set of open end wrenches will be needed as well. I forgot that. You'll need the standard metric ones, as well as a 22mm. That size seems to be quite common for some reason. (You may need a 30mm socket if you choose to do your own oil)

If you have the cash, I would recommend getting the open ended wrenches with the ratcheted closed ends. I wish I had a set of those. The standard closed ends work, but sometimes it would just save a ton of time.

Other than that, I echo the others. If you have the space and the time, you will find it very rewarding. I do not have a garage, so as long as you have a driveway, you will be great.

 

I also own a 1995 XJS with the 4.0L engine as many on here do. I use to work at a dealer service dept. so I know first hand how things are done.

If you drove 300 miles with no issues then first and foremost take a deep breath and know that your car is not about to fall apart.

What the dealer listed I would expect to see on a car with this mileage and age but that being said sounds like you have a chance this winter to get to know your car better.

Chances are as others have stated most of what is on the list is simply the tech seeing things that are simply age related like hoses that are starting to show signs of drying etc.

In other words sounds like the car just needs some normal maintenance for its age but keep in mind that you are heading into the cool season and if you are driving short runs replacing the hoses can be planned out and done when you can. Replacing mounts etc. also can be planned out and done when you can.

I would recommend taking to a independent Jag specialist or well respected known independent mechanic to check every thing over. Give them the list and tell them you want to look over with them when car is in the air so they can show you first hand what they are actually seeing and can give you some insight on what needs to be done first etc.

As crazy as it sounds I have seen hoses be put on a need to replace list simply because the clamp was slightly loose and was seeping which left coolant residue on the hose.

I have also seen motor/trans mounts get listed because some oil had leaked from above even from oil changes pulling the filter.

Now oil on a motor mount can quickly soften the mount rubber but does not mean that it needs to be done immediately. My guess is you have normal wear and seepage for age and mileage of car.

I would take your time and remember that there has been a large amount of low mileage cars salvaged out due to Sandy and flooding issues. Many MAF sensors etc. can be purchased right now very cheaply from wrecking yards.

I bring this up because for instance a MAF sensor sits up very high on the side of the engine and unlikely the water level went this high on the car. But, as was mentioned earlier most likely your MAF connections may need cleaning etc.

Keep in mind you are dealing with a car that is getting older and will require some normal upkeep. Also most likely your ECU had stored a code for the MAF sensor and that is why they put it on the list.

If the MAF was actually not functioning( I can guarantee in doing a free oil change the tech did not pull the MAF and run any checks on it to see how it was actually working), it would have the Check engine light on the dash on all the time so again my guess is at some time set a code.

Good news is you picked a engine on the XJS that is really pretty straight forward and easy to work on(relatively speaking of course as say a 4 cylinder 1995 econo box will always be simpler).

The AJ16 is really a very reliable engine but has its idiosyncrasies as any car does so do not fear. Just because it is a Jag does not mean it can not be learned and worked on by yourself.

One of the big joys for many of us in owning these cars whether a V12 or 6 cylinder is learning about them and getting to know them. I would guess you have another vehicle that you will be using also as I would simply caution you that you have a car that is getting close to 20 years old and some of the parts on a Jag are not as easy to get as say a Impala or Civic.

My point here is it is a lot easier and less stressful to learn on these cars and order parts etc. when you do not depend on this car to get you to work every day. Many on here do use their cars for everyday commutes but I find my experience owning a older fairly uncommon car less stressful if I do not have to rely on it to get me to work every day-just my 2 cents on that.

 

Vee,

I agree that stop leak is not a permanent fix. My post was merely suggesting a temporary strategy to some of the problems as the OP seemed concerned about spending a lot of additional cash so soon after buying the car.

If the leak is in the rack and if it is just a little seep, Lucas power steering stop leak can be a very effective temporary fix. You will find thousands of reviews for it online, both positive and negative but I have used it before on an older car and it worked very well. So well in fact that although I originally was going to have the rack rebuilt later that winter, I did not get around to it and did not have another leak for the 4 years that I subsequently owned the car. YMMV.

Of course there are many ways to skin a cat

Cheers,

Allan

 

What WERE you expecting?

With respect, there are not many $4500, 18 year old cars out there that don't need at least a few repairs . Let's face it, in the grand scheme of things a $4500 used car is pretty cheap these days! And, as the old saying goes, "There's nothing more expensive than a cheap Jaguar".




Not included in your posting is the severity of the various itmes on the laundry list. Perhaps the shop didn't explain *why* each of the repairs is being suggested and/or how urgent the need is for each item. If they didn't, shame on them.

It's very possible that many of the items are not urgent, as others here have mentioned. If that's the case....and I suspet it is...by all means prioritze the repairs and spread work out of a longer period of time ....and enjoy the car as you go.

Cheers
DD

 

Wow,

Well I have to say, I'm pretty shocked at how responsive and helpful everyone on this forum has been! I really do appreciate all of the advice and reassurance.

Turns out I do have a very good buddy or two that are mechanically minded and experienced. They have some of the tools necessary, but I think I may take some of your advice and buy any other essential tools/equipment to get the bulk of the work done myself (more like paying my buds in copious amounts of booze to help me figure this stuff out!).

Think I'm going to focus on the bigger issues and work my way down.

I took the car to Meineke to have them check out the exhaust leak. Turns out the flange that connects the exhaust pipe to the exhaust manifold has completely eroded. Meineke did not want to touch the bolts connected to the manifold for fear of causing further damage. They recommended I go to the Jag Shop as they will have all necessary parts and experience. I'll take it to the "Jaguar Specialists" this Friday. In your experience, if the repair shop causes further damage (ie to the exhaust manifold) during a repair are they likely to cover it?

Also going to order the MAF sensor, radiator hoses and thermostat so I can try my hand at working on that with my friends. Thinking about taking on the Transmission Mount as well since it seems that it would be pretty straightforward as there isn't one there at all which means I won't have to deal with the "spring of death" during dis-assembly. Still trying to find a guide/video on how to do this, any ideas?

I'll then focus on the other issues over time as funds permit. On a side note, as winter is soon approaching the Norther VA area, are there any specific winter-preparations I should be concerned about? Seeing as how I'm looking to do some work anyway, might want to get any necessary winter prep addressed at the same time.

Thanks all for your help. I'll update as I make progress or learn of any further issues that come up!

 

With winter coming soon you will want to make sure your antifreeze is good. You will be changing the antifreeze anyway when you tackle the hoses so issue solved on that.

I would disconnect the battery when you are not using the car for extended amounts of time and I keep my battery on a trickle charger that shuts off automatically when battery is fully charged. Most previous owners have already installed a battery disconnect at the battery area so you will want to check and see if your car already has this.

Hopefully car will be able to sit either inside or under a good cover when the harse weather arrives as this can be hard on the top and rubber etc.

I would put a good fuel additive in fuel if car will be stored and start and run car every 15 to 30 days or so. Just some of my thoughts on the subject for winter. Others will give their insights also on this but sounds like you have a good game plan on getting your needed car repairs done.

I would recommend comparing parts needed for your car on E-bay or similar sites as often you can save a lot on certain items.

 

Just to add a little more; all of the prices quoted by the dealer look like flat rates to me - flat rates right out of the "flat rate book". Perhaps you could negotiate some of that total out. I'd start at a reduction of 35%. I'd make an offer of $2350 flat or I go elsewhere; see if the dealer will negotiate, afterall $2350 is better than $0.00.

 

Negotiating a package price is surely worth a try.

When I was "in the biz" we'd gladly entertain some bargaining to sell a big job.

While away at college my youngest daughter ran into car trouble....2005 Honda...blown head gasket. There was a laundry list of smaller repairs needed as well. The shop worked up an itemized estimate. I replied back with a counter-offer to "do it all at once" for about 20% less. They said yes!

(Gah! It just kills me to pay for repairs but when the car is so far away I had little choice)

Cheers
DD

 

Glad you are sticking with it!!

I doubt it Is the problem on the manifold side or the down pipe side? If the problem is on the down pipe side it may be fixable by welding a flange back on. Problems with the exhaust manifolds such as cracking or warping are unfortunately quite common and not so easy to repair.

Just to reiterate what I and others have said, are you sure the MAFS is defective or did the tech just see that a DTC 12 was thrown at some point? These units are pretty reliable, 9 times out of 10 just cleaning and securing the connections and spraying the sensor passageway with MAFS cleaner will do the trick. I would absolutely do that first, reset the codes and see if it happens again. It could very well have just been a momentary problem and will save you a LOT of money.

Replacing the hoses and thermostat is very sensible.

Don't know of a video, but do a google search I'm pretty sure you will find how to pictures.

If you don't already have one, buy the ROM, it will give you step by step instructions on how to do most service jobs around the cars.

Cheers,

Allan

 

"It just kills me to pay for repairs"

I'll drink to that! I hate paying people to do work that I can do myself. Being a "frugal" (defined as cheap) New Englander I've learned to do things for myself - carpentry, plumbing, electrical and auto repairs. The good thing about all of these skills, along with saving a buck, is that they keep me out of gentlemen's clubs and other assorted gin mills - idle minds and hands are the devil's playground as they say..