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You sure hit that on the nose, to me todays cars have no style per say, the cars of yesteryear had style, class, funk whatever you want to call it. and as mention, not many of todays cars strike a spark in me also, guess thats what happens when your a baby boomer
Agreed. I am more of a “first batch” millennial, myself but fortunately do not suffer from the ailments that a lot of my counterparts do, including absolute lack of appreciation for what constitutes objective beauty, but I am far, far from the only one.
In automotive design, just like in architecture, there are very few new vehicles that are still created with traditional objective standards of beauty and proportion in mind. Everything seems to gravitate around creating huge, brutal, disproportionate designs and loading them with as much malleable, unnecessary technology as possible (as to make driver obsolete).
nice rig Padre,, do you find the 10speed trans is awesome, along with a 6.2L GM engine,, great combination!
ron
It's brilliant. I had the LT1 6.2 with 8-speed in my Camaro and loved it (450hp, high 12-sec 1/4-mile, 28+mpg). Brilliant.
This is quite the combo in the Tahoe - you can only get it in the RST edition. I had a Chevy HD diesel (6.6 LP5, High Country) - big truck, could tow 14.5k lbs - but drove like a big truck, traded it for the Tahoe (diesels keep great equity). This Tahoe with the L86 and 10-speed is just perfect, drives like a car but can tow 8400lbs. Only problem is the shifting is programmed for gas mileage and truck driving. So, I got one of those throttle modifiers, so with the click of a button I can change the throttle input to make it respond quickly, or put it back to stock gas-saving mode.
All in all, I can appreciate the comments about the character of classic cars, which is why I picked up the '93 XJS Vert. But with my Tahoe or G8 GXP, I can hop into and drive to California without a care and in great comfort. Hopefully, this '93 XJS will be a good driver for in-state cruising. Neither of my previous Jags ('94 XJS Coupe and the '89 S3 XJ12) could be trusted to go further than the city limits.
Neither of my previous Jags ('94 XJS Coupe and the '89 S3 XJ12) could be trusted to go further than the city limits.
That's probably not a compromise I'd be willing to make, unless it's a really old (fifty years or more) car. A modern car from around 1990 shouldn't be that unreliable. I take my 1992 coupé on road trips around the country and she's never let me down yetonly let me down once. So yeah, there's a slight risk, but it's the same risk driving around town, really. And the XJS is designed for long cruises anyway. Blows the cobwebs away....
I work around new cars every day and must admit they do not ignite my spirit like being around old classics do. The new cars are great every day drivers but with all the new gadgets comes a hefty price tag to match.
I will say that it is getting harder and harder to make a car look as great as they did years ago. With the newer side impact regulations and front pedestrian impact regulations the designers are facing more challenges making the new cars look as sleek as they use to look. Case in point is the newest generation Camaro that has the lowest roof line of any car I can remember. Chevy tried to make the car look sleek even though the doors are much taller than any previous generation. So now you have a car that if t-boned may not take your head off but makes looking out the side while driving a huge pain in the a-s!
Not sure most care much about styling anymore as the SUV has become the hottest seller now and who can blame those buying them as they can now have a third row seat, sit higher in traffic which most women like my wife love and will haul all kinds of things.
I may be in the minority on this forum but here is my take on the newerJaguarvehicles. Could care less about the newer 4 door sedans (still dream about owning a 2008 or 2009 XJ or XJR ), think Jaguar did a good job on the new SUV and simply knocked it out of the park with the F-type coupe design. Sad truth is Jaguar is in deep trouble and rumor is Tata is looking at selling to a French company. Sad to see Jaguar having so much financial woes but cannot blame the average consumer for buying a Toyota or Honda over a Jaguar as they are much less costly going in and retain much more resale value over a ten year period.
Just makes me appreciate the XJS more and more as time marches forward.
Well looks like Julian Thompson is replacing him, so I imagine not much change as far as the beached-whale car design will be upcoming. They need to hire Keith Helfet back.
Times changed about 10 years ago if you want to go by figures...
I replaced my 1997 XJ8 with a 2018 Fiat 124 Spider. 237 HP vs. 140 HP. 1.8t vs. 1t. 5 speed auto vs. 6 speed auto. 3.2l NA V8 vs. 1.4l turboed I4.
The Spider will easily outpace the larger and more cumbersome Jag. And it will outhandle the XJ-S in any corner. 1.7t will remain 1.7t - no matter how well the engineers select tires and setups... Vmax isn't it's thing, though being a roadster, it doesn't need Vmax.
Modern engines are well advanced and unfortunately more superior to the old 400 kg lumps under our XJ-S bonnets/hoods. Mercedes has now just presented the world's most powerful 4 cylinder at 2.0l with 425 HP and 500 nm of torque. Jaguar has just I troduced the new Ingenium I6 with 3.0l displacement. More power than the outgoing V8 with SC - just currently toned down a little... Heck, even stuffing modern tech on the V12 would help it a lot. Two small turbos and that thing would skyrocket!
Yesterday's world was better, but today's world is betterer
I work around new cars every day and must admit they do not ignite my spirit like being around old classics do. The new cars are great every day drivers but with all the new gadgets comes a hefty price tag to match.
I will say that it is getting harder and harder to make a car look as great as they did years ago. With the newer side impact regulations and front pedestrian impact regulations the designers are facing more challenges making the new cars look as sleek as they use to look. Case in point is the newest generation Camaro that has the lowest roof line of any car I can remember. Chevy tried to make the car look sleek even though the doors are much taller than any previous generation. So now you have a car that if t-boned may not take your head off but makes looking out the side while driving a huge pain in the a-s!
Not sure most care much about styling anymore as the SUV has become the hottest seller now and who can blame those buying them as they can now have a third row seat, sit higher in traffic which most women like my wife love and will haul all kinds of things.
I may be in the minority on this forum but here is my take on the newerJaguarvehicles. Could care less about the newer 4 door sedans (still dream about owning a 2008 or 2009 XJ or XJR ), think Jaguar did a good job on the new SUV and simply knocked it out of the park with the F-type coupe design. Sad truth is Jaguar is in deep trouble and rumor is Tata is looking at selling to a French company. Sad to see Jaguar having so much financial woes but cannot blame the average consumer for buying a Toyota or Honda over a Jaguar as they are much less costly going in and retain much more resale value over a ten year period.
Just makes me appreciate the XJS more and more as time marches forward.
Luckily that is a rumor, as Jaguar is selling more now than they did as Ford sold them to Tata and even worse, Jaguar has never sold so many cars since production started with the XK120
Also, why would Tata sell Jaguar, their engine developer? Land River/Range Rover relies heavily on Jaguar for their power plants. It wouldn't make any sense what so ever.
It is still a rumor and luckily, it isn't a true one.
Yesterday's world was better, but today's world is betterer
No. No it’s not. Not by any measurable standard.
We all understand that by the end of the next decade there may be electric compact engines in huge, living room sized SUV’s that can outperform today’s Bugatti Chiron. That is really not the point. There is something different and special about a car that requires driving skills that older cars used to have. So much of today’s advancements and technology is different from yesterday’s in that it’s geared towards making us more and more incompetent. Just in my small microcosm, I find myself lost for a minute or two after getting in my E type or XJS once a week after driving my daily driver, which has rearview camera and back up sensors. I am in my mid thirty’s now, so I am old but not terribly old, but it’s like I now depend on the camera and can’t back up properly without it. Before the camera and the sensors I could possibly race someone in reverse with just my peripheral vision on the rearview mirrors (not literally, but you get my point)
At any rate, hasn’t the Galactic Empire ummm, “European Parliament” decreed that all cars must have speed limiters by 2022? Might have a lot of E types and even XK150’s flying by the electronic cars capable, yet unable, of going from 0-200 in one second.
Luckily that is a rumor, as Jaguar is selling more now than they did as Ford sold them to Tata and even worse, Jaguar has never sold so many cars since production started with the XK120
Also, why would Tata sell Jaguar, their engine developer? Land River/Range Rover relies heavily on Jaguar for their power plants. It wouldn't make any sense what so ever.
It is still a rumor and luckily, it isn't a true one.
I believe in the saying " where there is smoke, there is fire " applies to the rumors floating around about Tata selling JLR.
Here is just a few articles backing up the rumors that are floating around right now about the state of JLR :
Yesterday's world was better, but today's world is betterer
Originally Posted by Spikepaga
No. No it’s not. Not by any measurable standard.
I guess it all depends on what yardstick you use.
Production values on advertisements of all varieties are far higher today than ever before! Almost all of the hazards associated with the safety systems have been resolved. Soon the auto-driving systems will be sufficiently advanced that they can compensate fully for the distractions associated with the advanced communication and entertainment devices. Rather than having to resort to a forum of experienced owner / repair / maintainers, and servicing your vehicle yourself, you can simply say “Alexa, what’s that odd sound?” and an appointment will be made for you at a nearby authorized service center based upon the level of care you are currently subscribed to.
So much of today’s advancements and technology is different from yesterday’s in that it’s geared towards making us more and more incompetent.
Excellent observation.
Incompetent and lazy. Lazy physically and mentally.
I don't summarily reject all new technologies but sometimes you just gotta wonder what we're getting ourselves into. I really think some new technologies are hurting humankind. But that's an awfully big subject. Too much for me to chew on at the moment.
I think they have gotten into more than they can handle at this point . For years it was just the XJ and the XJ-S. Then came along the X and S types. Now they have SUV’s and an electric car. They keep on trying to compete with the Germans and they keep on loosing. I really do believe their current problem is greatly aesthetic. All their cars look exactly the same. Their interiors are no longer what they used to be. There is not one single car in their line up for traditionalist and the rest of them are too Asian/Germanic and generic looking. They trashed and trashed the X type and the S type in their time, but it turns out nobody wants an XE either. And at least the X and the S types inspired strong emotion. The modernists (mainly journalists) hated them for not being “progressive” enough for their tastes, and the traditionalists loved them for the same reason. Jaguars current cars evoke no passionate response whatsoever.
We all understand that by the end of the next decade there may be electric compact engines in huge, living room sized SUV’s that can outperform today’s Bugatti Chiron. That is really not the point. There is something different and special about a car that requires driving skills that older cars used to have. So much of today’s advancements and technology is different from yesterday’s in that it’s geared towards making us more and more incompetent. Just in my small microcosm, I find myself lost for a minute or two after getting in my E type or XJS once a week after driving my daily driver, which has rearview camera and back up sensors. I am in my mid thirty’s now, so I am old but not terribly old, but it’s like I now depend on the camera and can’t back up properly without it. Before the camera and the sensors I could possibly race someone in reverse with just my peripheral vision on the rearview mirrors (not literally, but you get my point)
At any rate, hasn’t the Galactic Empire ummm, “European Parliament” decreed that all cars must have speed limiters by 2022? Might have a lot of E types and even XK150’s flying by the electronic cars capable, yet unable, of going from 0-200 in one second.
Luckily that is only half true... Because Germany has no plans to introduce a general speed limit so that means not all EU countries will be receiving the limiters on new cars Ba dum tsss...
Incompetent and lazy. Lazy physically and mentally.
I don't summarily reject all new technologies but sometimes you just gotta wonder what we're getting ourselves into. I really think some new technologies are hurting humankind. But that's an awfully big subject. Too much for me to chew on at the moment.
Cheers
DD
Well, I wouldn't call it lazy. I'd call it "comfortable"
Think back about 30-40 years. Cars normally only had a rear view mirror. External mirrors were seen as unwanted features. Heck, you had to pay more for them. I don't need those fangdangle new mirrors on the outside of my car! Hell no! People would still crash their cars with or without mirrors. Because they were too comfortable and weren't driving with the caution you needed. Back in the day, a driving license required you to understand road laws. Possibly not in the USA or Russia, but in Europe at least you had a theoretical and practial test. Both needed to be passed in order to gain a lisence. People drove and understod that they were doing. Remember Tucker's Torpedo? It has seat belts and safety glass etc. GM, Ford and Chrysler said "Safe cars don't crash". What do we all have in our cars nowadays? Bingo...
But the laws and rules were loosend. Loosend badly if you ask me. The result: idiots driving. Even worse than that: the lisence standards were not the same. For example: a driving test in New Dehli is easier than in London, but the driver from New Dehli has an international lisence allowing him to drive in London. The result: not really a good one...
The standards are just dropping and people are getting too comfortable relying on their assistents. Like their ESP, ABS, parking sensors, cameras, bla bla bla. But then again, this is also helped by the governments making certain things mandatory. Like all new cars in the USA MUST have back up cameras.
As said, it isn't laziness, it is comfort and lack of intelligence when it comes to driving. Smombies... (Smartphone Zombies) are what is up. Everyone prefers to stare at their 5" screen rather than through that beautiful 100" glass screen at the front of the car. And the manufacturers are currently rushing along, making driving even more and more relaxing and "less exhausting". Blind spot monitoring, auto lane control, hill climb assistant, hill decline assistant, ABS, ESP, auto parking (parallel as well as normal), auto trailer manouvering, auto lights, auto braking, congestion cruise control, auto dimming rear view mirrors, soft closing doors and boot lids, auto appointment system for servicing, ... Everything so the driver feels less required to drive. Not much longer and we can expect no more drivers...
You can still buy cars with no assistants at all. ABS and ESP make sense (yes they do) but otherwise nothing. My 124 Spider (yes it has an automatic because I get annoyed changing gears 263 times in one jam) has absolutely nothing which would allow you to distract yourself from driving. And yet: people don't want them. Why? Because the majority doesn't want to drive a purist's car. The majority wants an SUV with all creature comforts and any way to get to your destination with, well, no effort
I hate the modern cars with all assistants. I love cars with no assistants. And you can still get them. Amazingly cheap as well!
Incompetent and lazy. Lazy physically and mentally.
I don't summarily reject all new technologies but sometimes you just gotta wonder what we're getting ourselves into. I really think some new technologies are hurting humankind. But that's an awfully big subject. Too much for me to chew on at the moment.
Cheers
DD
To be quite honest I see very few creations that provide value to us at this point in human history. It almost seems things are being made to see who can make the most outrageous, degenerate, and hurtful creations. Clearly the point is to lull and sedate us into an existence where we no longer can communicate with each other, drive, think, or do anything else for ourselves. Just people perpetually attached to social media and devices not speaking to each other, being driven from place to place, unable to write, read or speak. Just put us to sleep and follow whatever the high command wants. The movie Idiocracy is quickly becoming a reality.
But back on point, this reminds me of commercial plane pilots who can not longer fly planes. They depend so much on the technology, that if it somehow fails, the plane goes down because they have no clue what to do without it. Nowadays if 15 year old Becky’s parallel parking system goes down, she will be having a fit in the middle of the street, crying and pulling her hair because she can not drive a car.
all they have to do is (just reprogram us to a higher level, like any robot ).
Spike your 1st sentence says it all ,most of us dont know we have been programmed for centuries!
My 124 Spider (yes it has an automatic because I get annoyed changing gears 263 times in one jam)
For lots of people city driving is no fun / painful so why not try and cushion yourself from it as much as possible? 30 years ago it was more fun to drive and car ownership was more of a privilege. Many young people worked part time jobs and bought a car so they could be free. Today their parents buy them a car or often they choose to use public transport.
I live 35 miles from the nearest secondary school. In 11 years when my daughter goes to that school I’m hoping I will have a fully automated car capsule thingy to take her there and back. I also still hope to have a 4wd and a classic car. When I’m too old to drive my robot can take drive these for me and change my diapers��
06-03-2019, 08:33 AM
