There's a lot of threads about paddles, but what about manual. I love the paddles and use them all the time. But would the xk be a better driver experience with a manual. I know the US drivers love the auto, but Europe seem to have more liking to manual in high performance cars. I like flicking up and down with the paddles but wonder if this car had a manual what would the experience be. One thing i have found,my car having a lovely exhaust note, when in traffic or stand still for a few seconds i have to put the car in neutral to give it a bit of throttle to share the noise ( i do this a lot) or as you know it will just move., where as with a manual you can just clutch the car to stop and give a blast of throttle rev and away again. When i did the cannonball Ireland people lined the streets in some towns see the cars go by. When some people asked as they do "give it a rev" i had to pop it into neutral each time or it would take off, a bit of a pain.

 

I truly feel that manual transmissions are dinosaurs. Modern, paddle shift transmissions shift faster, are much easier to drive fast with left-foot-braking (no advanced heal&toe shifting skills needed), there is a built-in over-rev protection that prevents the driver from blowing up the transmission/engine on an over-revved downshift.

I've just purchased a Stingray and selected the 8-sp auto over the 7sp manual. The 8sp comes with closer, performance ratios, as well as a taller final gear for fuel economy. For manuals, 5 speeds were OK, going beyond that is simply too much work in shifting. Auto does that shifting for you, unless in performance mode in which case you likely only use gears 2-4.

Also, less maintenance, no clutch to burn and wear out.

One more thing. I am convinced that manual would be out-of-character with an XK/XKR. These cars are true GT cars for relaxed high speed cruising and, IMHO, a jerky manual setup just do not match up with them.

 

If it were practical and relatively inexpensive to convert my XKR to a manual ($5000 or so), I probably would've done it already. But as it is, it's probably just cheaper to buy an Aston Martin Vantage to get to row my own gears in a beautiful British GT car.

I would love to have a manual in the XKR. It would be that much more satisfying to drive!

 

Does the newer 5.0 xk have the same paddle performance as a 4.2 or was it made to give a better reaction time for the newer engine. We have all ZF 6HP26 automatic transmissions i think.

 

I used to have a manual s60R and the manual really suited the car, even though it was more of a GT. There is something more tactile about feeling the power come on while you let the clutch out. Second gear was just awesome, so was third. I think the XKR would be similar, so even though I like the convenience of the auto I'd give the manual a crack if they had it. And I'd do so knowing that the car would be slower with the manual, and also that I would be cursing it when I was stuck in traffic.

 

The XKR vert appealed to me as a fun summer toy, and despite having enjoyed all previous summer toys with manuals, a GT-R friend managed to convince me that the manual now felt archaic to him, blah, blah, that auto and paddles was the way to go, and I bought the car. Well, as it turns out he was probably trying to convince himself as much as me...and we both purchased manuals two years later in our next toys.

I do think I would have purchased the XKR with a manual had it been offered, and would probably still own it today, but had I to do it again, the AM Vantage that I was shopping it against would have been a better fit for my personal preferences.

So that reinforced the belief that one should buy the tranny type that they prefer, and not what most other people like, or what most manufacturers prefer to offer. There's an awful lot of respected drivers like Randy Pobst and Chris Harris that strongly prefer a manual for a more involving driving experience, and when I see some hot new models being offered only with manuals I know the stick shift isn't really dead at all!

 

The 5.0 has the 6HP28, which has significantly quicker shifts - I'd assume shifts take the same time whether in auto or manual, since both are actually controlled by the TCM anyway. The paddles just 'ask' the TCM to shift; it won't obey if that would cause an over-rev or a stall, or a rear lockup during braking.

I like to left-foot brake, so I'm a big fan of clutchless transmissions, whether conventional auto or DSG.

 

If the XK had a manual, I'd still own it. Lack of manual and some odd handling characteristics over bumps were the only two drawbacks to the XK for me. Not offering a manual in XK was a mistake, but may have been necessary due to cost on Jaguar's behalf.

The Vantage is too small for same silhouette or I would've went for that on a trade-in, instead of the Evora.

 

IMO either transmission in the XK can shift much faster than a human can! When you say much faster, you're already talking about an incredibly fast shift!

 

It's not that Americans love automatics. Most of us live in urban areas where a stick just sucks. BTW I have two 5 speed cars. I spend most of my miles on short trips or local drives. The fun of rowing a shifter 5% of the time when I get to drive in the mountains doesn't justify the 95% of the time I'm slogging through daily life. The XK is a GT car. My 1990 Toyota Celica GT4RC will demolish it on a twisty road. Leave it for dead. But on a long trip? XK hands down. The XK's drive train is a perfect match for the cars mission IMHO. The only thing I'd wish for is a modern dual clutch auto. On the "tail of the dragon" a quicker shift would be nice.

 

I had my last 3 peddle car a little over a year ago before I got the Jag. The old Ferrari 5 speed was fun for a while even with the heavy clutch but after 14 years of ownership it was time. As some may know the old Fcar transaxles had a notchy feel and 2nd gear when cold was difficult to get into. As the syncro's started to go and I drove it less I didn't want to go through the rebuild of the gearbox. By the way to have syncro's done it would cost $10K and if I pulled the engine and gearbox it would only cost $8K for the rebuild. Then once you do that you have the old "while you're in there" issue of replacing the clutch and associated parts. So with that car I'd be $15-$20K even doing most of the work myself. In the end I wanted to just enjoy the drive and even though my bride was bought up with a stick she likes the Jag better then the Fcar. At 70 I'm not going back .

 

And watch and listen to all the reasons why the manual isn't going anywhere, and why a Jaguar sports car should at least be offered with a stick...






Spectacular fun awaits!

 

This is an interesting debate indeed, but from a manufacturer's viewpoint such as Jaguar, they are trying to attract younger, affluent buyers who are not tied to the past and perhaps have never driven (nor indeed know how to drive) a car with a manual gearbox.

Most of the vehicles I have personally owned have had a manual gearbox; even through urban traffic in Europe. While I prefer a manual, let us not lose sight of the fact that the XK, and the XKR for that matter, are Gran Turismo vehicles designed for comfort and high-speed cruising. They are not intended as 'sports cars' designed to be nimble and able to go around a gymkhana course with virtually no tyre noise such as a 1960s vintage Alfa-Romeo or other similar vehicles.

Jaguar seem, from my perspective, to be looking squarely to the future and have a certain demographic group(s) in mind for their range of vehicles. The vehicle styling of the entire current range I find to be quite odd and not in the 'traditional' vein of Jaguar 'grace, pace and space' parameters. I have tried to like the F-Type, but it is awkward from many angles; I cannot like the XJ as it looks too long for the styling and the XF is too Honda-esque for my liking. Those are just my thoughts on the exteriors alone. Then there is the interior to discuss...

The XK is both elegant and graceful; she is muscular and sensuous; exotic and unlike other cars on the road. Everyone notices the XK going down the road and are pulled into the mystique of the appearance and performance potential. Yet, JLR decided to go with a 'sport-utility' vehicle instead for profits ahead of passion.

Perhaps the new direction can ensure the survival of the marque for generations to come, but I believe there needs to be a nod to the Jaguar enthusiasts who long for a vehicle that is a driver's car, not a marketing compromise.

 

Well maybe one day they will attract more younger buyers, but in the meantime the brand and their expensive and luxury laden F-Type sports car is appealing to the same demographic as all other expensive and luxury laden sports cars, and many of those graying buyers are voting for a manual transmission with their wallets.


They are the ones who have the opportunity and means to have a toy driven strictly for pleasure, and have no necessity for an auto in that toy which is essential in the daily driver appliance that younger buyers require. They're no longer saddled with that grind, or perhaps only minimally, and enjoy the fun and freedom of a car with minimal practicality.


Porsche sets the bar that other sports car manufacturers try to compete with, so look no further than Porsche to see what direction the trends are heading. When the new 911 GT3 came out a couple of years ago with only their auto tranny everyone proclaimed the manual was dead...turns out they misjudged buyer tastes in a big way and are addressing it. I don't expect Jaguar to offer a manual in their sports car anytime soon...but it sure would be nice if they did.

 

But Jaguar is offering a manual in the 2016 FType! Even in the US!

 

That's great news! The manual lives on!

 

I still see more and more hi-performance cars going to paddles but with dual clutch transmissions and not auto boxes. The interesting thing is most people who have them use them in auto mode. Never being a serious track driver I can't judge whether it is better or not compared to the new generation autobox with paddles. In my youth I used to do a lot of autocross and all of my cars then were manual transmission type. Lot of shifting and heal/toe operation and if the auto was as good as they are today it would have given me more time to focus on cornering. In the above video's there is a lot of 1 hand driving and at today's speeds that may not be advantages. Also it seems more of todays youth don't want the 3 peddle cars anymore It's similar to kids buying into the 60's and 70's muscle cars. I have that discussion with my BIL who is a 60's Corvette collector. You go to a car show here and all you see is old guys with their old toys.Back to paddles I think you will see more and other then old racers the stick will fade out. Just my thoughts.

 

The choice of a manual transmission today isn't about all out performance or practicality...it's about enhanced driver involvement and the appreciation, reward and pleasure that provides to those wanting that.


Both my 31 son and 29 year old daughter love the manuals from the sports cars that they've grown up with. I think both would be prospective buyers of a car that was available with a stick in the future. Which they would choose would likely be affected by how they were going to use the car.


Jaguar sports car buyers who didn't have the aptitude to manually shift or needed the ease of use for their daily commute have chosen an auto since it first became available in the E-Type back in 1966. 50 years later they have a sports car again and will bring back the manual. All is right in the world again, and it will be interesting to see the reaction in the automotive media once tested!

 

All very interesting and valid points made in each post. It is good news indeed that Jaguar plan to offer a manual gearbox in the F-Type for anyone who wants that 'driver involvement' so missing with most vehicles these days.

In all honesty, I doubt I can ever warm to the styling and feel of the F-Type regardless of the gearbox fitted. When and if the time comes for me to part with the XK and I want another British vehicle, it is more than likely going to be the Aston Martin Vantage S, manual gearbox and all.

 

Regularly driving both conventional automatic (XKR) and dual-clutch sequential (Fabia vRS) 'boxes, I'd say the sequential is a generation behind.

Until a few years back, autos were sequential - the 6HP26 in the 4.2 XK can only select gears in sequence. So, if you're in 4th and the TCM decides you need to be in 2nd, it has to select 3rd, then 2nd - it may never actually engage 3rd, but it needs to go through it. The 6HP28 in the 5.0 XK can just bang straight into 2nd, so you get a much faster change.

Dual-clutch 'boxes still have this problem - odd gears on one clutch, even on the other. So, if 4th is engaged and you need 2nd, the 'box either has to:

- swap clutches & put you into 3rd first, shift the 'even' selector to 2nd, then swap clutches again, or
- disengage the 'even' clutch, select 2nd, & re-engage the clutch

So you either get a trip through a gear that's not optimal, or you get a power-off/power-on lurch, depending on the dual-clutch logic.

I'm not sure what the solution for dual-clutch is. The auto 'box has the torque converter to provide a buffer during gear changes, something dual-clutch lacks. That used to be a benefit for dual-clutch, since there is power loss through the converter. But modern 'boxes like the 6HP28 spend much of the time with the converter locked anyway, so most of that loss is negated.

The BorgWarner/VW 7-speed DSG in the Fabia is a wonderful thing under acceleration - its up-shifts are very slick (apparently it takes 8ms). Downshifts are slower (600ms) due to the ECU blipping the throttle. But you can certainly catch it out, particularly if you're accelerating slowly (so it will have pre-selected a higher gear) and then try to accelerate hard - it has to deselect & reselect a lower gear.