I'm at the end of my rope with this new 12 XKR
Joined: Apr 2009
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From: Central Florida
Sorry Bro, they took your $6000 and left you with nothing. You got hosed.
In most places in the world that would be a sin and it is.........
Kick back and think you got off easy if you want, but I would fight for my $6000, if you are rich or poor, how ever you count it, it's a lot of money.
Vector (I would be pissed)
In most places in the world that would be a sin and it is.........
Kick back and think you got off easy if you want, but I would fight for my $6000, if you are rich or poor, how ever you count it, it's a lot of money.
Vector (I would be pissed)
Last edited by Vector; May 7, 2012 at 07:14 PM. Reason: H
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From: Falls Church, VA
You could always sue your dealership, but your sales contract probably requires arbitration. I would check out Lemon Law attorneys and ask a few questions.
Is this what we have to look forward to now that Jaguar is no longer under Ford quality controls??
Sorry dude. My 07 XK is not perfect but after spending some bucks to get the kinks worked out, it's a dream of a car and never lets me down.
Is this what we have to look forward to now that Jaguar is no longer under Ford quality controls??
Sorry dude. My 07 XK is not perfect but after spending some bucks to get the kinks worked out, it's a dream of a car and never lets me down.
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Joined: Mar 2012
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From: Pittsford, NY
Sorry Bro, they took your $6000 and left you with nothing. You got hosed.
In most places in the world that would be a sin and it is.........
Kick back and think you got off easy if you want, but I would fight for my $6000, if you are rich or poor, how ever you count it, it's a lot of money.
Vector (I would be pissed)
In most places in the world that would be a sin and it is.........
Kick back and think you got off easy if you want, but I would fight for my $6000, if you are rich or poor, how ever you count it, it's a lot of money.
Vector (I would be pissed)
Wait a sec. He drove the car for 3 months, and he made the lease payments for each of those 3 months. How is that getting hosed? How is that a sin? That's how it works when you lease a car.
Seems to me that the only thing it cost him was the $1,500 that he gave them upfront.
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Joined: Feb 2012
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From: Southern california
Wait a sec. He drove the car for 3 months, and he made the lease payments for each of those 3 months. How is that getting hosed? How is that a sin? That's how it works when you lease a car.
Seems to me that the only thing it cost him was the $1,500 that he gave them upfront.
Seems to me that the only thing it cost him was the $1,500 that he gave them upfront.
Sometimes in life you have to pick your battles. Bad luck with this car, but it only cost $1500. Being able to walk away without dealing with lawsuits,etc. is the way to go in my opinion.
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From: FL
All good points and I'll try to address each one.
1) I've had the car since Feb 23 and I'm actualy $4,410 out of pocket as Jag paid the first month via the lease special. I paid $1,500 down and $1455 for two months.
2) It's been in the shop for two weeks straight and another +/-5 days prior to for other problems
3) The car's been loaded with problems (12) since week one, so the 2.3 months of ownership was not very good and I certainly did not get my money's worth.
4) My lease is already paid through May 23rd (just made a payment on 4/19)
5) If they cxl the lease tomorrow I will have pre-paid for about three weeks (to 5/23) and that will be lost
6) I asked the dealer today if I can at least use the loaner (an XF) until 5/23 and I'd still cxl the lease tomorrow as they've asked. That's reasonable right?
7) I could certainly ask they fix the car (as of today they still had no solution) which will take another week or so at least, then lemon law the car, I'd then get almost all of my money back.
8) The dealership ALPINE JAGUAR really helped out getting Jaguar to buy back the car and their service dept was VERY accommodative and if they let me use the loaner until 5/23 I'm satisfied and all is good. *EDIT* Alpine said no to the loaner car till just 5/23, not good.
9) Is Jag quality on a decline since Ford left? Well I'd say based on the last 3 year initial quality numbers trending to 23/27 and based on my experience, well yes.
10) I would have absolutely given Jag another shot if they ordered me a replacement and did an even collateral exchange but Jag never offered this. I really don't think they want me as a customer since I think a cold misfire is not something one should want in a $110,000.00 vehicle. Tried every brand of premium fuel with no change, none of the loaners had this problem. I also think this is a problem affecting some late 2011 and early 2012 Jags and they might not yet have isolated the VIN range just yet. The problem in my opinion are defective cylinder heads (one bank)
11) ICE, yes that was me the MB guy was referring to, he is trying to find me a silver/charc 2013 SL550 sport,P1pkg etc with black ash wood but there are none with black ash available until Sept (July build). Dave is a nice guy and I'd love to give him my business. Thanks for the great feedback on the new SL; maybe we can meet there someday.
12) I've really enjoyed everyone I've met here and I hope I provided some stimulating topics and objective feedback.
13) Remember no epidurals in your spine, they are very dangerous and NOT FDA approved; I'd hate to see anyone else end up like me.
If you guys would like me to hang around here after I return the XKR and update on the new purchase I’d be happy to; just let me know your thoughts.
Many thanks to everyone for their well wishes and feedback; you guys (and gals) are awesome!
RJC
1) I've had the car since Feb 23 and I'm actualy $4,410 out of pocket as Jag paid the first month via the lease special. I paid $1,500 down and $1455 for two months.
2) It's been in the shop for two weeks straight and another +/-5 days prior to for other problems
3) The car's been loaded with problems (12) since week one, so the 2.3 months of ownership was not very good and I certainly did not get my money's worth.
4) My lease is already paid through May 23rd (just made a payment on 4/19)
5) If they cxl the lease tomorrow I will have pre-paid for about three weeks (to 5/23) and that will be lost
6) I asked the dealer today if I can at least use the loaner (an XF) until 5/23 and I'd still cxl the lease tomorrow as they've asked. That's reasonable right?
7) I could certainly ask they fix the car (as of today they still had no solution) which will take another week or so at least, then lemon law the car, I'd then get almost all of my money back.
8) The dealership ALPINE JAGUAR really helped out getting Jaguar to buy back the car and their service dept was VERY accommodative and if they let me use the loaner until 5/23 I'm satisfied and all is good. *EDIT* Alpine said no to the loaner car till just 5/23, not good.
9) Is Jag quality on a decline since Ford left? Well I'd say based on the last 3 year initial quality numbers trending to 23/27 and based on my experience, well yes.
10) I would have absolutely given Jag another shot if they ordered me a replacement and did an even collateral exchange but Jag never offered this. I really don't think they want me as a customer since I think a cold misfire is not something one should want in a $110,000.00 vehicle. Tried every brand of premium fuel with no change, none of the loaners had this problem. I also think this is a problem affecting some late 2011 and early 2012 Jags and they might not yet have isolated the VIN range just yet. The problem in my opinion are defective cylinder heads (one bank)
11) ICE, yes that was me the MB guy was referring to, he is trying to find me a silver/charc 2013 SL550 sport,P1pkg etc with black ash wood but there are none with black ash available until Sept (July build). Dave is a nice guy and I'd love to give him my business. Thanks for the great feedback on the new SL; maybe we can meet there someday.
12) I've really enjoyed everyone I've met here and I hope I provided some stimulating topics and objective feedback.
13) Remember no epidurals in your spine, they are very dangerous and NOT FDA approved; I'd hate to see anyone else end up like me.
If you guys would like me to hang around here after I return the XKR and update on the new purchase I’d be happy to; just let me know your thoughts.
Many thanks to everyone for their well wishes and feedback; you guys (and gals) are awesome!
RJC
Last edited by RJC; May 8, 2012 at 07:57 AM.
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From: Northern New Jersey, USA
Mike
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From: FL
Just heard from Alpine Jaguar (dealer) they are not willing to let me keep/use loaner until when my lease is paid through (5/23) citing this is a direct expense to them; this is very regretable and unreasonable IMO. Really surprised at these guys especially since I accepted their first offer.
Alpine Jaguar really lost quite a few points here as this would have been such a very simple and reasonable thing for them to do while extending just a little bit more good will; kinda sad they did so well and then fumbled on the 1 yard line.
Cest'la vie, onwards and upwards. Bye bye Jaguar.
Alpine Jaguar really lost quite a few points here as this would have been such a very simple and reasonable thing for them to do while extending just a little bit more good will; kinda sad they did so well and then fumbled on the 1 yard line.
Cest'la vie, onwards and upwards. Bye bye Jaguar.
Last edited by RJC; May 8, 2012 at 08:09 AM.
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From: Missouri
Wow. I think I have to agree with your assessment in point #10, that this dealership must really not want you as a customer for some reason.
All of the back and forth that you went through over the past months aside, at the end of all the wrangling the situation seems pretty simple: a) You paid thousands of dollars to drive a car for a short time that gave you nothing but trouble. b) By agreeing to buy out the lease, they would seemingly be admitting the car wasn't right. To receive absolutely nothing as an offer of compensation for what was obviously a very short, very negative ownership experience seems insane to me. Unless I totally missed something here, they didn't even bother to incent you to buy another Jaguar? Something seems really strange about that.
Anyway, best of luck with your next vehicle. Frankly given the way things went down with your current deal, I can't blame you for walking away. Your experience with the dealership seems awfully unusual to me though.
All of the back and forth that you went through over the past months aside, at the end of all the wrangling the situation seems pretty simple: a) You paid thousands of dollars to drive a car for a short time that gave you nothing but trouble. b) By agreeing to buy out the lease, they would seemingly be admitting the car wasn't right. To receive absolutely nothing as an offer of compensation for what was obviously a very short, very negative ownership experience seems insane to me. Unless I totally missed something here, they didn't even bother to incent you to buy another Jaguar? Something seems really strange about that.
Anyway, best of luck with your next vehicle. Frankly given the way things went down with your current deal, I can't blame you for walking away. Your experience with the dealership seems awfully unusual to me though.
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From: Phoenix, AZ
I haven't looked at the JD Power surveys in a long time because when I did I had little faith in them for some reason, and may have even read about why one shouldn't rely on them. I think they had rated some cars highly that I wouldn't be caught dead driving, or noticed cars they rated high for initial quality turned out to be long term reliability duds.
And I don't know what 23/27 means for quality, other than 22 other manufacturers did better. How much difference is there between say 10 th and 23 rd? Is it 12 cars per 100 vs 15 that have a problem reported within the first 3 months? That example doesn't seem too significant, so how much worse is 23 than 10th? I suspect that all manufacturers have vastly improved quality over what they were in the past. Has Jaguars quality actually been improving even though it's ranking among others has fallen?
And regardless of Jaguars ranking with JDP I wouldn't buy a new XJ based on the frequency of problems reported in that forum, the XF frequency of problem seems to be getting much better over the last couple of years, and the XK's reliability has been stellar. The only newer XK with a problem that we're aware of may have been quickly resolved by another dealer or owner. Either way we're talking about one XK. Horrible to be the owner of that one car having to deal with it, but it's still just one XK.
Now since a consumer is purchasing a particular model of car he is going to want to know what that reliability rating is for that model, and not so much what it is for other models. So, is the XK one of the most reliable cars ever built, is it the most reliable GT in its catagory, or is it a 23 out of 27 dud?
Bruce
And I don't know what 23/27 means for quality, other than 22 other manufacturers did better. How much difference is there between say 10 th and 23 rd? Is it 12 cars per 100 vs 15 that have a problem reported within the first 3 months? That example doesn't seem too significant, so how much worse is 23 than 10th? I suspect that all manufacturers have vastly improved quality over what they were in the past. Has Jaguars quality actually been improving even though it's ranking among others has fallen?
And regardless of Jaguars ranking with JDP I wouldn't buy a new XJ based on the frequency of problems reported in that forum, the XF frequency of problem seems to be getting much better over the last couple of years, and the XK's reliability has been stellar. The only newer XK with a problem that we're aware of may have been quickly resolved by another dealer or owner. Either way we're talking about one XK. Horrible to be the owner of that one car having to deal with it, but it's still just one XK.
Now since a consumer is purchasing a particular model of car he is going to want to know what that reliability rating is for that model, and not so much what it is for other models. So, is the XK one of the most reliable cars ever built, is it the most reliable GT in its catagory, or is it a 23 out of 27 dud?
Bruce
For example, all manufacturers could be above 99% reliability and the difference between first and last place out of 27 could be a difference of just 0.9% in reliability (not that I know either way, I'm just saying how misleading stats can be without the whole picture).
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From: Phoenix, AZ
Just heard from Alpine Jaguar (dealer) they are not willing to let me keep/use loaner until when my lease is paid through (5/23) citing this is a direct expense to them; this is very regretable and unreasonable IMO. Really surprised at these guys especially since I accepted their first offer.
...
...
As a Brit now living in the US, it amazes me how US corps seem to get away with handing out the crappiest customer service yet stay in business, and also how many US corps (including the one I work for) only ever take a short term view, even when its obviously a long-term money loser.
Having their name associated with bad customer service on the internet probably cost them far more $$$ value in future sales than they saved by not lending you a loaner for 3 weeks.
Last edited by JustNiz; May 8, 2012 at 09:58 AM.
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From: Roanoke, Virginia
I think the outcome here was pretty good. You got to try out a brand new XKR, find you did not like it, and you can now walk away and put it behind you.
Look at the range of possible outcomes. In a worse case, the dealer could have really stonewalled, told you a deal is a deal and expect you to keep making lease payments. They could have performed services under warranty and excluded those things that they deemed were not covered. You, of course, could be paying lawyers and getting aggravated on a daily basis.
In the best case, if they had the identical vehicle waiting in the wings, and assuming it was the anti-lemon, you still might end up with a vehicle that does not make you happy. It would still have crummy ratings from JD Power, it would still generate piles of brake dust. What's the point of owning an XK if it does not thrill you?
From your telling of the events that unfolded it does appear that the dealer could have / should have, done more, that perhaps they exhibited a "shoot the messenger" attitude, which is shameful. It does seem like they want to lose you as a customer. Perplexing, to say the least, but then companies and individuals make bad decisions all the time, often without fully considering the big picture. But from what I read, your decisions were measured and well-conceived. You stated your issues clearly. You did not rush in with threats and lawyers as some here suggested. You fought a good battle and you won - not 100%, but still a win, an outcome you can live with.
They say shopping for a new car can be more fun than owning it. Go have some fun.
Tony
Look at the range of possible outcomes. In a worse case, the dealer could have really stonewalled, told you a deal is a deal and expect you to keep making lease payments. They could have performed services under warranty and excluded those things that they deemed were not covered. You, of course, could be paying lawyers and getting aggravated on a daily basis.
In the best case, if they had the identical vehicle waiting in the wings, and assuming it was the anti-lemon, you still might end up with a vehicle that does not make you happy. It would still have crummy ratings from JD Power, it would still generate piles of brake dust. What's the point of owning an XK if it does not thrill you?
From your telling of the events that unfolded it does appear that the dealer could have / should have, done more, that perhaps they exhibited a "shoot the messenger" attitude, which is shameful. It does seem like they want to lose you as a customer. Perplexing, to say the least, but then companies and individuals make bad decisions all the time, often without fully considering the big picture. But from what I read, your decisions were measured and well-conceived. You stated your issues clearly. You did not rush in with threats and lawyers as some here suggested. You fought a good battle and you won - not 100%, but still a win, an outcome you can live with.
They say shopping for a new car can be more fun than owning it. Go have some fun.
Tony
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Thanks guys. With regard to the initial quality numbers unfortunately there is very large difference with ppv (problems per vehicle) between the top five or even 10 and 23rd place. Jaguar has work to do since Ford departed.
The dealership and Jaguar probably know there still may be an ongoing issue with this misfire problem and it needs to be traced down to an a create vin run and Jaguar may still not know thie extent of the problem/data just yet as it seems to be affecting late 11 and 12's, so if they offered a replacement especially an early 13 it could still have the issue. The fact the dealer wouldn't extend the use of the loaner is a mistake on their part as they already own the loaner and it's off season here in FL so its not likely they'd run out of them and have to pay for rentals, plus it's just only for another two weeks.
I still appreciate what the dealer has done to release me from the lease but my request was a very reasonable one especially when I was asking for a replacement vehicle all along never thinking I'd be without a car and so quickly now needing to scramble for a replacement.
Thanks for the well wishes on the new vehicle and when I receive I'll post pics etc here.
The dealership and Jaguar probably know there still may be an ongoing issue with this misfire problem and it needs to be traced down to an a create vin run and Jaguar may still not know thie extent of the problem/data just yet as it seems to be affecting late 11 and 12's, so if they offered a replacement especially an early 13 it could still have the issue. The fact the dealer wouldn't extend the use of the loaner is a mistake on their part as they already own the loaner and it's off season here in FL so its not likely they'd run out of them and have to pay for rentals, plus it's just only for another two weeks.
I still appreciate what the dealer has done to release me from the lease but my request was a very reasonable one especially when I was asking for a replacement vehicle all along never thinking I'd be without a car and so quickly now needing to scramble for a replacement.
Thanks for the well wishes on the new vehicle and when I receive I'll post pics etc here.
Last edited by RJC; May 8, 2012 at 10:04 AM.
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From: Ft. Lauderdale
11) ICE, yes that was me the MB guy was referring to, he is trying to find me a silver/charc 2013 SL550 sport,P1pkg etc with black ash wood but there are none with black ash available until Sept (July build). Dave is a nice guy and I'd love to give him my business. Thanks for the great feedback on the new SL; maybe we can meet there someday.
13) Remember no epidurals in your spine, they are very dangerous and NOT FDA approved; I'd hate to see anyone else end up like me.
RJC
I'm still itching to try the XKR but if not, my second choice is the GTR. Not a beautiful car but unique. I would have to spend big bucks to make the interior feel more luxurious but I'm willing to do that. If I did get a Benz it would be the CL AMG. I'll PM you if I do, I really love the CL even though it's not really sporty.
I can relate to your back issues. I had a back problems for many years. Doctors were telling me I needed surgery. I just didn't trust anyone to put a knife to my back. So I endured the pain.
Then one day, in excrushiating pain and barely able to walk...I went out to the street in front of my house and raised my hands to The Lord. I shouted prayers and asked for healing. My neighbors thought I was crazy but I continued shouting to God for relief.
That was over 20 years ago and no pain.
All the best to your health and happy motoring.
Last edited by ice350; May 8, 2012 at 10:16 AM.
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ICE we seem to have quite a bit of common ground. I love the CL, am very spiritual and unfortunately suffer from spine issues, thankfully you never let them enter your back in any way. There's a reason 50% of back surgeries fail (FBSS/failed back surgery syndrome) and a large part if it is due to a small amount of blood getting into/onto neural tissue which it's highly toxic to and creates nerve damage and/or arachnoiditis.
I hope to go see the new SL and I'll report back, I'm also dropping off the loaner today; maybe they'll have a change of heart but I doubt it.
Thanks again.
I hope to go see the new SL and I'll report back, I'm also dropping off the loaner today; maybe they'll have a change of heart but I doubt it.
Thanks again.
Last edited by RJC; May 8, 2012 at 11:47 AM.
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Jaguar usa
I really hope Jaguar reads this entire thread and the excellent feedback given by all; this should be invaluable information for them and didn't cost them a dime to gather.
Ta ta for now TaTa
Ta ta for now TaTa
Last edited by RJC; May 8, 2012 at 12:45 PM.