Restricted Performance + 7 Year Old Battery
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From: Southern Illinois
Restricted Performance + 7 Year Old Battery
I'm a very long time Jag Forums reader and have searched all over for someone posting with something similar to this. I might have missed it so forgive me if I have overlooked this elsewhere. This is going to be a bit long but hopefully an interesting read. I'm a college prof that teaches engineering tech so you'll know where I come from when I'm dropping all kinds of details here.
Car: 2013 XK-R
Mileage: Approx 25,000
Condition: Car is garage kept, only driven on dry days, actually won a local car show's "Best of Show" last year. But I'm not afraid to put my foot into it either. I'll do 0 to 60's with anyone most of the time. Never tracked. Never had a drop of anything under the car (except AC water draining in the summer)
Ownership: I'm the 3rd owner - had it for 2 years and 2 months. Oil changes annually at our Ford owned Quik Lane with me watching, full synthetic.
Previous Issues: One time had all kinds of crazy faults pop up (Rear Diff, ABS sensor, etc.... random stuff). Was resolved by buying a CTEC battery tender and keeping my battery maintained. For whatever reason, I never checked the date on the battery when installing the CTEC wiring harness. I should have ....
Current Situation: Was driving from a store for a 5 mile commute home when I downshifted (paddled) to get out into traffic. When shifting up and driving into a slower in-town street, the car posted Restricted Performance and I had a solid (maybe flashing ??) engine light. I could feel everything going into limp mode and I started smelling gas. I had 2 stop lights and 2 stop signs to drive through to get home. The car stalled at all of them, unable to idle high enough to stay running. But, the car started (about double the crank time) each time. During any acceleration (gentle on my part), I noticed a cloud of smoke from the exhaust. This wasn't the type when you're burning oil or water ... it was very much of un-burnt fuel. I made it home - neighbors that were outside noticed. One texted me and asked what was going on. Of course I had no idea. I did notice that I had burnt nearly a quarter tank of gas in the 4 or 5 mile drive!
Once home I decided to walk away from it for a while to settle down. 30 minutes later, I go to the garage to see if it will start. Normally, when opening the door you hear several things come on. Owners know the sounds - perhaps it is a pump that pressurizes, or fans that kick on ... electric motors spin up. In my case, I hear a strange sound after opening the door like a pump that was pressurizing. It was not a normal sound, perhaps it was strained. It winds up, then produces what sounds like 4 or 5 "squeezes", then stops. Very strange to my ears. At this point I try to start it - it turns over twice, my wipers go on for 2 laps and stop, weird dash light behavior, and then gives up. And so do I. I spend the next hour surfing the forums here and decide I need to check my battery and read my codes.
The next day my auto-centric son comes home with a reader from the High School auto class and reads the following codes:
B10AD - Rain Sensor
U0214 - Communication with Remote Control Actuator (RFA)
P0302 - Misfire detection, cylinder 2
P0304 - Misfire detection, cylinder 4
P0306 - Misfire detection, cylinder 6
P0308 - Nothing shows on reader but I assume it is Misfire detection, cylinder 8
P0300 - Random/multiple cylinders
B1B01 - Transponder Key
B1A00 - Control Module (Under Restraint Control Module Heading)
U0121 - Communication With ABS Control Unit
U0155 - Communication with Instrument Cluster
U0422 - Communication with Body Control Module (Under Parking Brake Module Heading)
and probably more that he didn't get a screenshot of.
He clears these codes and gives the car a start. It starts up (barely) and he says it idles normal (consider the source - he doesn't drive it) for about 10 seconds, then Restricted Performance is posted in the cluster and the engine light comes on, car immediately goes into limp mode, cylinders deactivated, un-burnt gas smoke from the exhaust. He tries to start twice more and reports strange dash behavior like fuel levels jumping from full to 1/2 tank, and it won't turn over any more. He does nothing more. I get home and inspect the battery. It was dated 7/2013. No need to check it, it's old, getting replaced before I do anything else.
Next day I purchase and replace the battery with another fresh AC Delco 49A - looks identical to the one that was in there. Once everything is connected, I open the door and hear that strange strained compressor sound I mentioned earlier - like 4 or 5 squeezes and then stops. I start the car (did not clear anything that reposted from my son's last start up as he has the reader and is not home). It starts right up and idles nicely at about 1.5K RPM. I realize the modules in the car have had no power for a while and my intention is to let it idle for 5 minutes. But, I have Restricted Performance posting and my engine light is still on. It clearly is pushing un-burnt fuel out of the exhaust. As it settles down to a low idle, I pop the hood to investigate a rattling noise. Right in the center of the engine (all plastic covers are on), I hear what sounds like a rocks in a tumbler spinning around. It is idling at around 600-800 RPM. Is this the sound of 4 cylinders not firing at low RPM? And my gas tank is mow showing almost another 1/4 tank lower!
My question overall is - how in the world did I go from a perfectly running car to this jacked up mess in just a couple minutes? And how to I get the car's tech in a state that is fully reset so I can then see if I really have a problem?
I realize the car is loaded with technology dependent on proper voltage from the battery. And clearly I had a battery that was living on borrowed time, producing low current and voltage. That has been replaced. I'm waiting on my son to arrive with the reader to clear all these faults and and try to start her up again. My thinking, after reading a lot here in the forums is that something could be really wrong - but that all of these problems could have mounted by low battery voltage / current to modules that had code that couldn't function (crashed) which caused faults to run downstream into other modules. Why else would I get ABS and wiper faults? Deactivation was trigger by limp mode which was triggered by something - but was it a real problem or was it the battery all along?
I appreciate your passion and help fellow Jag lovers!
Car: 2013 XK-R
Mileage: Approx 25,000
Condition: Car is garage kept, only driven on dry days, actually won a local car show's "Best of Show" last year. But I'm not afraid to put my foot into it either. I'll do 0 to 60's with anyone most of the time. Never tracked. Never had a drop of anything under the car (except AC water draining in the summer)
Ownership: I'm the 3rd owner - had it for 2 years and 2 months. Oil changes annually at our Ford owned Quik Lane with me watching, full synthetic.
Previous Issues: One time had all kinds of crazy faults pop up (Rear Diff, ABS sensor, etc.... random stuff). Was resolved by buying a CTEC battery tender and keeping my battery maintained. For whatever reason, I never checked the date on the battery when installing the CTEC wiring harness. I should have ....
Current Situation: Was driving from a store for a 5 mile commute home when I downshifted (paddled) to get out into traffic. When shifting up and driving into a slower in-town street, the car posted Restricted Performance and I had a solid (maybe flashing ??) engine light. I could feel everything going into limp mode and I started smelling gas. I had 2 stop lights and 2 stop signs to drive through to get home. The car stalled at all of them, unable to idle high enough to stay running. But, the car started (about double the crank time) each time. During any acceleration (gentle on my part), I noticed a cloud of smoke from the exhaust. This wasn't the type when you're burning oil or water ... it was very much of un-burnt fuel. I made it home - neighbors that were outside noticed. One texted me and asked what was going on. Of course I had no idea. I did notice that I had burnt nearly a quarter tank of gas in the 4 or 5 mile drive!
Once home I decided to walk away from it for a while to settle down. 30 minutes later, I go to the garage to see if it will start. Normally, when opening the door you hear several things come on. Owners know the sounds - perhaps it is a pump that pressurizes, or fans that kick on ... electric motors spin up. In my case, I hear a strange sound after opening the door like a pump that was pressurizing. It was not a normal sound, perhaps it was strained. It winds up, then produces what sounds like 4 or 5 "squeezes", then stops. Very strange to my ears. At this point I try to start it - it turns over twice, my wipers go on for 2 laps and stop, weird dash light behavior, and then gives up. And so do I. I spend the next hour surfing the forums here and decide I need to check my battery and read my codes.
The next day my auto-centric son comes home with a reader from the High School auto class and reads the following codes:
B10AD - Rain Sensor
U0214 - Communication with Remote Control Actuator (RFA)
P0302 - Misfire detection, cylinder 2
P0304 - Misfire detection, cylinder 4
P0306 - Misfire detection, cylinder 6
P0308 - Nothing shows on reader but I assume it is Misfire detection, cylinder 8
P0300 - Random/multiple cylinders
B1B01 - Transponder Key
B1A00 - Control Module (Under Restraint Control Module Heading)
U0121 - Communication With ABS Control Unit
U0155 - Communication with Instrument Cluster
U0422 - Communication with Body Control Module (Under Parking Brake Module Heading)
and probably more that he didn't get a screenshot of.
He clears these codes and gives the car a start. It starts up (barely) and he says it idles normal (consider the source - he doesn't drive it) for about 10 seconds, then Restricted Performance is posted in the cluster and the engine light comes on, car immediately goes into limp mode, cylinders deactivated, un-burnt gas smoke from the exhaust. He tries to start twice more and reports strange dash behavior like fuel levels jumping from full to 1/2 tank, and it won't turn over any more. He does nothing more. I get home and inspect the battery. It was dated 7/2013. No need to check it, it's old, getting replaced before I do anything else.
Next day I purchase and replace the battery with another fresh AC Delco 49A - looks identical to the one that was in there. Once everything is connected, I open the door and hear that strange strained compressor sound I mentioned earlier - like 4 or 5 squeezes and then stops. I start the car (did not clear anything that reposted from my son's last start up as he has the reader and is not home). It starts right up and idles nicely at about 1.5K RPM. I realize the modules in the car have had no power for a while and my intention is to let it idle for 5 minutes. But, I have Restricted Performance posting and my engine light is still on. It clearly is pushing un-burnt fuel out of the exhaust. As it settles down to a low idle, I pop the hood to investigate a rattling noise. Right in the center of the engine (all plastic covers are on), I hear what sounds like a rocks in a tumbler spinning around. It is idling at around 600-800 RPM. Is this the sound of 4 cylinders not firing at low RPM? And my gas tank is mow showing almost another 1/4 tank lower!
My question overall is - how in the world did I go from a perfectly running car to this jacked up mess in just a couple minutes? And how to I get the car's tech in a state that is fully reset so I can then see if I really have a problem?
I realize the car is loaded with technology dependent on proper voltage from the battery. And clearly I had a battery that was living on borrowed time, producing low current and voltage. That has been replaced. I'm waiting on my son to arrive with the reader to clear all these faults and and try to start her up again. My thinking, after reading a lot here in the forums is that something could be really wrong - but that all of these problems could have mounted by low battery voltage / current to modules that had code that couldn't function (crashed) which caused faults to run downstream into other modules. Why else would I get ABS and wiper faults? Deactivation was trigger by limp mode which was triggered by something - but was it a real problem or was it the battery all along?
I appreciate your passion and help fellow Jag lovers!
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Nov 7, 2020, 02:39 PM
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 30
Likes: 20
From: Southern Illinois
OK - follow-up time. It's hard to believe it has been over a month since I posted all of this. So here's the play by play. I know some will appreciate this as too many problems across the interwebs in forums never get updated.
I did take it to the recommended shop. It's a small one with 2 people FT and a third par time. So it took 2 weeks before they had a chance to take it in.
The very BEST towing company around here had trouble getting it out of the garage on their incline to flat bed it. They managed but only after starting it up to get it in reverse. I wasn't here to manage the process but the good news is, they didn't break anything. It's an XK-R with dynamic and speed pack so the spoiler is quite low. The delivery went the same way - starting it up and backing it off. The mechanic was able to observe the excess unburned gas from exhaust, and see actual fuel dripping from the exhaust.
He observed the massive amount of fuel in the exhaust and was sure there was going to be a ton of it in the oil ... and there was. He drained nearly 4 gallons of gas/oil mix. He then hand-cranked the engine which felt nearly seized until he created enough gaps to allow fuel to drain into the engine. At this point he broke the exhaust open and put a vacuum on the end of the exhaust and let it run for 2 days to attempt removal of as much fuel as possible in the exhaust. He never seemed concerned about the CATS so long as he was able to dry everything out.
Back on the lift, he removed all the plugs on the driver side. He told me that either an injector was broken or the ECM was telling all the injectors to stay open - which would mean transporting to Jaguar St. Louis and letting them gouge me for a new ECM / programming, etc. With his computer connected, he was able to pulse the low pressure fuel pump. With plugs removed, he seen mass amounts of fuel flying into a single cylinder. Good news - it's secluded to a single injector so not an ECM.
He calls, I tell him to replace all 4 on that side. Labor cost is the same for 1 or 4. Plus, he says that he'll be breaking the connection to all 4 to remove the fuel rail anyway so why not. Well one reason is that they are around $300 per injector (does come with seals, etc.). But I don't care - just want it done right and this makes sense to me. So he orders them and another week of waiting for them to arrive.
Injectors arrive and he does the job on all 4. He turns on the low pressure fuel pump with his nifty computer and it holds pressure - no leaks. Time for oil and oil filter. He completes that and it starts right up, burping out all kinds of junk from the exhaust. He lets it idle for 15 minutes, computer connected taking data. All is good after some bizarre readings at first - all to be expected. So he told me he grabbed a fire extinguisher and his cell phone to take the first test drive. I had instructed him to let it burn to the ground if it caught on fire - I don't want an insurance claim to 'fix' a burnt car LOL! He told me it was only for his safety and that he would do me the favor if any of that fuel combusted on the trip. After 3 miles of occasional puking through the exhaust, it settled into its old self. He hit 5K RPM as he paddle shifted through the gears - all is well.
Back in the shop, he drains the oil and replaces with good full synthetic goodness and a new oil filter. Another long idle. No smoking although still a gassy smell from whatever is left in exhaust. He gives it a good 18 mile drive including some hard acceleration and a couple of flat out 0-80MPH runs. Car performed great, computer confirmed, but did get a post-CAT oxy sensor error halfway through the run. He reset it and it didn't come back.
I pick it up tomorrow with the thought that it'll take some hours on the car to get the rest of the junk out of the exhaust. So I need to drive it - which I really can't wait to do!
Total cost - $2230'ish.
That's about $750 in labor, the rest for 4 injectors, 4 new plugs,2 oil changes, and likely a couple of other things here and there.
Overall, I feel like he did a great job and didn't stick it to me. He doesn't replace things and hope that 'heals' it - and then when it doesn't just start replacing other things. He's a car nut, like most of us here. So I'm glad I have a good mechanic to go to now here in rural Southern IL.
I hope this helps someone in the future. Thanks to Cee Jay and really everyone for trying to help. Cee Jay, you were right all along buddy. Appreciate it!!!
I did take it to the recommended shop. It's a small one with 2 people FT and a third par time. So it took 2 weeks before they had a chance to take it in.
The very BEST towing company around here had trouble getting it out of the garage on their incline to flat bed it. They managed but only after starting it up to get it in reverse. I wasn't here to manage the process but the good news is, they didn't break anything. It's an XK-R with dynamic and speed pack so the spoiler is quite low. The delivery went the same way - starting it up and backing it off. The mechanic was able to observe the excess unburned gas from exhaust, and see actual fuel dripping from the exhaust.
He observed the massive amount of fuel in the exhaust and was sure there was going to be a ton of it in the oil ... and there was. He drained nearly 4 gallons of gas/oil mix. He then hand-cranked the engine which felt nearly seized until he created enough gaps to allow fuel to drain into the engine. At this point he broke the exhaust open and put a vacuum on the end of the exhaust and let it run for 2 days to attempt removal of as much fuel as possible in the exhaust. He never seemed concerned about the CATS so long as he was able to dry everything out.
Back on the lift, he removed all the plugs on the driver side. He told me that either an injector was broken or the ECM was telling all the injectors to stay open - which would mean transporting to Jaguar St. Louis and letting them gouge me for a new ECM / programming, etc. With his computer connected, he was able to pulse the low pressure fuel pump. With plugs removed, he seen mass amounts of fuel flying into a single cylinder. Good news - it's secluded to a single injector so not an ECM.
He calls, I tell him to replace all 4 on that side. Labor cost is the same for 1 or 4. Plus, he says that he'll be breaking the connection to all 4 to remove the fuel rail anyway so why not. Well one reason is that they are around $300 per injector (does come with seals, etc.). But I don't care - just want it done right and this makes sense to me. So he orders them and another week of waiting for them to arrive.
Injectors arrive and he does the job on all 4. He turns on the low pressure fuel pump with his nifty computer and it holds pressure - no leaks. Time for oil and oil filter. He completes that and it starts right up, burping out all kinds of junk from the exhaust. He lets it idle for 15 minutes, computer connected taking data. All is good after some bizarre readings at first - all to be expected. So he told me he grabbed a fire extinguisher and his cell phone to take the first test drive. I had instructed him to let it burn to the ground if it caught on fire - I don't want an insurance claim to 'fix' a burnt car LOL! He told me it was only for his safety and that he would do me the favor if any of that fuel combusted on the trip. After 3 miles of occasional puking through the exhaust, it settled into its old self. He hit 5K RPM as he paddle shifted through the gears - all is well.
Back in the shop, he drains the oil and replaces with good full synthetic goodness and a new oil filter. Another long idle. No smoking although still a gassy smell from whatever is left in exhaust. He gives it a good 18 mile drive including some hard acceleration and a couple of flat out 0-80MPH runs. Car performed great, computer confirmed, but did get a post-CAT oxy sensor error halfway through the run. He reset it and it didn't come back.
I pick it up tomorrow with the thought that it'll take some hours on the car to get the rest of the junk out of the exhaust. So I need to drive it - which I really can't wait to do!
Total cost - $2230'ish.
That's about $750 in labor, the rest for 4 injectors, 4 new plugs,2 oil changes, and likely a couple of other things here and there.
Overall, I feel like he did a great job and didn't stick it to me. He doesn't replace things and hope that 'heals' it - and then when it doesn't just start replacing other things. He's a car nut, like most of us here. So I'm glad I have a good mechanic to go to now here in rural Southern IL.
I hope this helps someone in the future. Thanks to Cee Jay and really everyone for trying to help. Cee Jay, you were right all along buddy. Appreciate it!!!
Veteran Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 10,124
Likes: 7,128
From: Atlanta suburbs
What are the stored DTC's?
Just because you now have a new Delco battery doesn't mean it's fully charged. Attach your CTEK and see if it goes directly to Stage 7 or comparable setting for being fully charged.
The first step in troubleshooting an electrical problem is to make sure your battery is fully charged. It's weak if the voltage is below 12.6v.
Just because you now have a new Delco battery doesn't mean it's fully charged. Attach your CTEK and see if it goes directly to Stage 7 or comparable setting for being fully charged.
The first step in troubleshooting an electrical problem is to make sure your battery is fully charged. It's weak if the voltage is below 12.6v.
Veteran Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,703
Likes: 1,696
From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Not having listened to the sounds... in this process
I would suggest Blocked Catalytic converters but the codes aren’t right ...
- Record current codes
- clear all codes
- confirm level of battery charge
- reset electronics system
- Without starting but with ignition on, check codes
- if no codes, remove code reader
- shut off electronics, wait for full off situation
- start.
I would suggest Blocked Catalytic converters but the codes aren’t right ...
Last edited by guy; Sep 18, 2020 at 02:55 PM.
Thread Starter
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Member
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 30
Likes: 20
From: Southern Illinois
guy, and everyone else...
Thanks for your help. Guy, I followed your list closely. And regarding the new battery (from others) - I agree and understand. The battery is dated 7/19 so it has been setting for a year in a warehouse or stock room. I tested the battery in car, connected, trunk open. Measured 12.47V. I connected my CTEC and it showed that it needed to charge a bit. An hour later and I was at full on CTEC, measured 12.9V after disconnecting CTEC. Starting the car (with previously mentioned issues) and at idle, was getting 13.76V. This appears to me that the alternator is doing its job. Here's a head scratcher. I measured 13.02V on the 7 year old battery after removal. It is no longer with me as I dropped it off to get my core $$$ back earlier today.
Forgot to mention this bit. I filled up with gas with a little under 1/8th tank the morning of the 'event'. I drove 10 miles to work from the station and it sat for 7 hours. Then I drove 8 miles to a shopping center. Leaving the shopping center was when this all went down hill. Did I get a tank of water gas? It was 91 Premium and I usually fill with something a bit higher but 91 has never caused me problems. It just hit me that I filled up the day this whole thing started.
So following guy's advice, here's what the results were.
1. Current codes -
P0302 - Misfire detection, cylinder 2
P0304 - Misfire detection, cylinder 4
P0306 - Misfire detection, cylinder 6
P0308 - Nothing shows on reader but I assume it is Misfire detection, cylinder 8
P0300 - Random/multiple cylinders
P0316 - Misfire during first 1000 starting revolutions
P0087- Fuel Pressure System/System Pressure
U0415 - (Rear Diff Control MOD) CAN Signal from ABS
2. Cleared all codes. Verified by scanning again with no codes present.
3. Measured battery - 12.2V - Humm... how could I be this low on new battery after trickling to 12.9V, starting and idling just 3 hours before?
4. Pulled Positive battery post for 1 minute to reset. Confirmed by getting Foot and E-Brake setup on cluster upon ignition on.
5. Ran scan after step 4. No engine codes at all. I did get the following Gear Shift MOD - U0415 CAN Signal from ABS and U043A (No Description)
Rear Diff MOD - U0415 CAN Signal from ABS
6. Removed reader
7. Shut off, shut door and and remote locked doors. Had dinner.
8. Opened door and sit in to start and it won't turn over. Voltage on battery still reads 12.2V. Connected CTEC again. Charge for 1 hour. Voltage is now 12.9V with trickle disconnected. Start engine. It has a hard time starting (son says it did same after he cleared everything the day before) but eventually started. Had Service Required light (did this also when swapping battery - I assume the service time clock has no value yet). Idle sounded good a couple seconds after it started. Ran for 30 seconds and the idled down to 800 RPM or so, then started running rough, rich smelling puffs out of the exhaust ... the same as before. I will have to read the codes again but the Encore OTC has a low battery and won't start up until I charge it.
Where do I go from here?
First off, I think the gas could have been garbage. The auto shop teacher at the high school told me that he thought it was bad gas by all the misfires that came from no where and prompted me to remember that I indeed filled up that day from a very low level in the tank. He also thought of dirty injectors. I also know the battery was way beyond its life. I'm not sure that this battery I bought is any good either. I can certainly take it back to Autozone and get a different one with a more recent date - and have them check it in store before I haul it home. What would you folks do next if you were in this mess? Battery swap and go through Guy's list again? That's my plan.
Appreciate the help fellas!
I would suggest Blocked Catalytic converters but the codes aren’t right ...[/QUOTE]
Thanks for your help. Guy, I followed your list closely. And regarding the new battery (from others) - I agree and understand. The battery is dated 7/19 so it has been setting for a year in a warehouse or stock room. I tested the battery in car, connected, trunk open. Measured 12.47V. I connected my CTEC and it showed that it needed to charge a bit. An hour later and I was at full on CTEC, measured 12.9V after disconnecting CTEC. Starting the car (with previously mentioned issues) and at idle, was getting 13.76V. This appears to me that the alternator is doing its job. Here's a head scratcher. I measured 13.02V on the 7 year old battery after removal. It is no longer with me as I dropped it off to get my core $$$ back earlier today.
Forgot to mention this bit. I filled up with gas with a little under 1/8th tank the morning of the 'event'. I drove 10 miles to work from the station and it sat for 7 hours. Then I drove 8 miles to a shopping center. Leaving the shopping center was when this all went down hill. Did I get a tank of water gas? It was 91 Premium and I usually fill with something a bit higher but 91 has never caused me problems. It just hit me that I filled up the day this whole thing started.
So following guy's advice, here's what the results were.
1. Current codes -
P0302 - Misfire detection, cylinder 2
P0304 - Misfire detection, cylinder 4
P0306 - Misfire detection, cylinder 6
P0308 - Nothing shows on reader but I assume it is Misfire detection, cylinder 8
P0300 - Random/multiple cylinders
P0316 - Misfire during first 1000 starting revolutions
P0087- Fuel Pressure System/System Pressure
U0415 - (Rear Diff Control MOD) CAN Signal from ABS
2. Cleared all codes. Verified by scanning again with no codes present.
3. Measured battery - 12.2V - Humm... how could I be this low on new battery after trickling to 12.9V, starting and idling just 3 hours before?
4. Pulled Positive battery post for 1 minute to reset. Confirmed by getting Foot and E-Brake setup on cluster upon ignition on.
5. Ran scan after step 4. No engine codes at all. I did get the following Gear Shift MOD - U0415 CAN Signal from ABS and U043A (No Description)
Rear Diff MOD - U0415 CAN Signal from ABS
6. Removed reader
7. Shut off, shut door and and remote locked doors. Had dinner.
8. Opened door and sit in to start and it won't turn over. Voltage on battery still reads 12.2V. Connected CTEC again. Charge for 1 hour. Voltage is now 12.9V with trickle disconnected. Start engine. It has a hard time starting (son says it did same after he cleared everything the day before) but eventually started. Had Service Required light (did this also when swapping battery - I assume the service time clock has no value yet). Idle sounded good a couple seconds after it started. Ran for 30 seconds and the idled down to 800 RPM or so, then started running rough, rich smelling puffs out of the exhaust ... the same as before. I will have to read the codes again but the Encore OTC has a low battery and won't start up until I charge it.
Where do I go from here?
First off, I think the gas could have been garbage. The auto shop teacher at the high school told me that he thought it was bad gas by all the misfires that came from no where and prompted me to remember that I indeed filled up that day from a very low level in the tank. He also thought of dirty injectors. I also know the battery was way beyond its life. I'm not sure that this battery I bought is any good either. I can certainly take it back to Autozone and get a different one with a more recent date - and have them check it in store before I haul it home. What would you folks do next if you were in this mess? Battery swap and go through Guy's list again? That's my plan.
Appreciate the help fellas!
- Record current codes
- clear all codes
- confirm level of battery charge
- reset electronics system
- Without starting but with ignition on, check codes
- if no codes, remove code reader
- shut off electronics, wait for full off situation
- start.
I would suggest Blocked Catalytic converters but the codes aren’t right ...[/QUOTE]
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Thread Starter
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From: Southern Illinois
I shot this 47 second video for you all to check out. This is what I seen in the post above after following guy's 8 step list.
1st 14 seconds is in the engine bay at idle. Sounds decent but you can pick up on the strange rattle sound I mentioned.
Around 20- 28 seconds in, I'm at the back of the car where you can see the puffy exhaust. It is loaded with unburnt fuel. No oil or water vapor that I can see or smell.
Last, I go into the car and show the cluster - blinky check engine lamp. I shut down and quickly place the phone under the car. At 40-44 seconds, if you turn up your volume, you'll hear that strained pumping sound I mentioned at the top of this thread.
1st 14 seconds is in the engine bay at idle. Sounds decent but you can pick up on the strange rattle sound I mentioned.
Around 20- 28 seconds in, I'm at the back of the car where you can see the puffy exhaust. It is loaded with unburnt fuel. No oil or water vapor that I can see or smell.
Last, I go into the car and show the cluster - blinky check engine lamp. I shut down and quickly place the phone under the car. At 40-44 seconds, if you turn up your volume, you'll hear that strained pumping sound I mentioned at the top of this thread.
Veteran Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,703
Likes: 1,696
From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Hmmm... interesting its all happening on Bank B. Rules out fuel in my book. But again, codes aren’t right for a done cat.
Yes, sounds like your previous battery was fine... but I think all of us would have replaced it as you’ve done. Shame about the new battery.
Im not a tech... just an interested gearhead with an engineering background.
I need to look at the workshop manual... i will respond at the end of the day..... hmmm, only Bank B... Currently, I'm of the opinion the ECM is not to blame by way of a failure.
Please ensure all modules (ECM!), fuses are firmly seated. PCV Bank B is not plugged (I don't think thats it). Humour me and ensure gas cap is tight (though I don't think thats it, either.).
Camshaft position sensor failure?? Then I would expect to see failures on Bank A, too.
Sorry, I cannot get clogged cats out of my head... despite not having codes for the O2 sensors.
I appreciate we all have different approaches... with that rattle I'd be flat bedding it into the shop... a shop with sdd.
Yes, sounds like your previous battery was fine... but I think all of us would have replaced it as you’ve done. Shame about the new battery.
Im not a tech... just an interested gearhead with an engineering background.
I need to look at the workshop manual... i will respond at the end of the day..... hmmm, only Bank B... Currently, I'm of the opinion the ECM is not to blame by way of a failure.
Please ensure all modules (ECM!), fuses are firmly seated. PCV Bank B is not plugged (I don't think thats it). Humour me and ensure gas cap is tight (though I don't think thats it, either.).
Camshaft position sensor failure?? Then I would expect to see failures on Bank A, too.
Sorry, I cannot get clogged cats out of my head... despite not having codes for the O2 sensors.
I appreciate we all have different approaches... with that rattle I'd be flat bedding it into the shop... a shop with sdd.
Last edited by guy; Sep 18, 2020 at 10:06 PM.
Veteran Member
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 11,906
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From: Kaysville, Utah, US
The longer you run it the thinner the oil gets, diluted with fuel. Pretty soon it will be metal-on-metal and start melting things. If the injector is really bad, just the low pressure pump will be enough to force fuel into the cylinder with just the ignition on, thereby dumping raw fuel into the crankcase.
Not a good thing, at all.
Heck, get ENOUGH fuel into the oil and it'll become combustible, then hold onto your butt.
Not a good thing, at all.
Heck, get ENOUGH fuel into the oil and it'll become combustible, then hold onto your butt.
Thread Starter
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Member
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 30
Likes: 20
From: Southern Illinois
The longer you run it the thinner the oil gets, diluted with fuel. Pretty soon it will be metal-on-metal and start melting things. If the injector is really bad, just the low pressure pump will be enough to force fuel into the cylinder with just the ignition on, thereby dumping raw fuel into the crankcase.
Not a good thing, at all.
Heck, get ENOUGH fuel into the oil and it'll become combustible, then hold onto your butt.
Not a good thing, at all.
Heck, get ENOUGH fuel into the oil and it'll become combustible, then hold onto your butt.
Would the Jag's oil sensors show too much oil? I'm showing full - and was full before all of this business.
Thread Starter
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Member
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 30
Likes: 20
From: Southern Illinois
Good morning (in the US)!
After sleeping on this and charging up the Encore OTC, I ran a few other tests at short interval idles. With the P0087- Fuel Pressure System/System Pressure code and the noise under the car (see video at end), everything is pointing to a fuel system problem. I think Cee Jay is right in that the car is taking on some gas in its oil. The OTC measured 2.27 gallons and it should be 1.9. Does this car have direct fuel injection? The OTC shows a desired fuel rail pressure of 1451 psi and at idle I'm at 600-700 psi. Regardless, after 3 start ups and idles for 30 seconds to get readings, I found a decent puddle of gas under the car.
I've called another professor at the college I work at - the automotive director. He's certain that the starting point is testing low pressure fuel pump, moving forward to high pressure, then injectors. It is certainly time to get the car to a reliable mechanic. My problem is finding that someone. I'm 2 hours drive from the nearest Jag dealership and not that confident that they won't rake me over the coals with repair costs. So the research is moving toward who to trust my baby with in Southern Illinois. I've got a few auto-centric friends in the area to consult on this one. I'll post a follow-up once things get sorted out.
Thanks everyone for getting me this far!
After sleeping on this and charging up the Encore OTC, I ran a few other tests at short interval idles. With the P0087- Fuel Pressure System/System Pressure code and the noise under the car (see video at end), everything is pointing to a fuel system problem. I think Cee Jay is right in that the car is taking on some gas in its oil. The OTC measured 2.27 gallons and it should be 1.9. Does this car have direct fuel injection? The OTC shows a desired fuel rail pressure of 1451 psi and at idle I'm at 600-700 psi. Regardless, after 3 start ups and idles for 30 seconds to get readings, I found a decent puddle of gas under the car.
I've called another professor at the college I work at - the automotive director. He's certain that the starting point is testing low pressure fuel pump, moving forward to high pressure, then injectors. It is certainly time to get the car to a reliable mechanic. My problem is finding that someone. I'm 2 hours drive from the nearest Jag dealership and not that confident that they won't rake me over the coals with repair costs. So the research is moving toward who to trust my baby with in Southern Illinois. I've got a few auto-centric friends in the area to consult on this one. I'll post a follow-up once things get sorted out.
Thanks everyone for getting me this far!
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 591
Likes: 470
From: Leicetershire, UK
I caught your post late on sniffing the oil filler hole Cee Jay. I'll check it tomorrow and make sure I'm not "making oil" with fuel. I have an old Ford Bronco that filled the oil pan with gas when its fuel pump seals blew out. Old school engineering on the Fords! We drained about 3 quarts more than we should have from that engine. Nasty stuff.
Would the Jag's oil sensors show too much oil? I'm showing full - and was full before all of this business.
Would the Jag's oil sensors show too much oil? I'm showing full - and was full before all of this business.
Thread Starter
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Member
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 30
Likes: 20
From: Southern Illinois
You all might find this interesting but the original Terry's Jaguar parts store was owned by Bill Terry here in Southern Illinois. Bill was a UPS technology customer of mine in the late 90s and early 2000s. I called him for advice shortly after my last post. While his business has long been sold and shipped away to Michigan, it is still called Terry's Jaguar. Some of you might have bought parts there. Anyway, Bill pointed me to the only Southern IL mechanic that he trusted his own 2001 XKR to and I'm doing the same. I called the mechanic and we spoke foe 30 minutes about the car. His feeling is that I have a fitting in the low pressure fuel plumbing that has come loose, decayed, or otherwise has lost a tight connection. According to him, the results of low pressure added with lots of air being vacuumed into the lines would have caused these conditions. That's where he is investigating first. He's a busy guy so I have a week more to wait before I have it loaded on a flatbed and taken to his shop. But I'm more hopeful that he is correct. I told him about my startups and idles and he says I have nothing to be concerned with. We shall see but for now I'm optimistic. I'll return with news once I get it. Thanks for checking in!
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 591
Likes: 470
From: Leicetershire, UK
Thanks for your post. The gas went on the ground. I did several tests and none of them pushed RPM over 2000 and the longest run was 4 mins or so. I didn't realize how much gas was on the floor of my garage until i did a 4 minute idle test for the computer. At least a gallon was under the car.
You all might find this interesting but the original Terry's Jaguar parts store was owned by Bill Terry here in Southern Illinois. Bill was a UPS technology customer of mine in the late 90s and early 2000s. I called him for advice shortly after my last post. While his business has long been sold and shipped away to Michigan, it is still called Terry's Jaguar. Some of you might have bought parts there. Anyway, Bill pointed me to the only Southern IL mechanic that he trusted his own 2001 XKR to and I'm doing the same. I called the mechanic and we spoke foe 30 minutes about the car. His feeling is that I have a fitting in the low pressure fuel plumbing that has come loose, decayed, or otherwise has lost a tight connection. According to him, the results of low pressure added with lots of air being vacuumed into the lines would have caused these conditions. That's where he is investigating first. He's a busy guy so I have a week more to wait before I have it loaded on a flatbed and taken to his shop. But I'm more hopeful that he is correct. I told him about my startups and idles and he says I have nothing to be concerned with. We shall see but for now I'm optimistic. I'll return with news once I get it. Thanks for checking in!
You all might find this interesting but the original Terry's Jaguar parts store was owned by Bill Terry here in Southern Illinois. Bill was a UPS technology customer of mine in the late 90s and early 2000s. I called him for advice shortly after my last post. While his business has long been sold and shipped away to Michigan, it is still called Terry's Jaguar. Some of you might have bought parts there. Anyway, Bill pointed me to the only Southern IL mechanic that he trusted his own 2001 XKR to and I'm doing the same. I called the mechanic and we spoke foe 30 minutes about the car. His feeling is that I have a fitting in the low pressure fuel plumbing that has come loose, decayed, or otherwise has lost a tight connection. According to him, the results of low pressure added with lots of air being vacuumed into the lines would have caused these conditions. That's where he is investigating first. He's a busy guy so I have a week more to wait before I have it loaded on a flatbed and taken to his shop. But I'm more hopeful that he is correct. I told him about my startups and idles and he says I have nothing to be concerned with. We shall see but for now I'm optimistic. I'll return with news once I get it. Thanks for checking in!
I wish you the best of luck with it, and look forward to your further reports about your progress. Fingers etc crossed.
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Joined: Jan 2015
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From: Naperville, Illinois USA
Don’t think an injector would be dumping gas on the ground.
