+1

 

I think we suggested a CPO PPI somewhere in here. Considerably more expensive than a standard PPI but would certify virtually every aspect of the car. Even if the dealer is unwilling to actually certify the car, they will still follow the process if you're willing to pay for it. At a minimum, i would do this before purchase.
I've purchased more than one car without driving following a CPO PPI, but also had full histories. This car at that price, I would want both.

 

Although I recommend that the Jaguar dealer use the CPO Checklist (Post #10, above), to rely on it to buy the car sight unseen is still a gamble. It's a gamble even if you see and drive it before you buy it.

I bought my CPO 2013 XJ and took a trip to another state to see and drive it before I decided to buy it. Within a week after I bought it, my left rear tire went flat and the repair technician showed me where that rim was cracked and welded. How can a welded rim pass a CPO inspection? It can't, because the structural integrity of a welded rim is always compromised and it is not as safe as a new rim. The dealer shipped a new rim to me and paid for mounting and balancing the tire.

Even seeing and driving a CPO Jaguar before buying it is no guarantee that the CPO PPI was done properly.

Sean is right. At that price, you can't do too much due diligence.

 

Thanks again to everyone who has responded with advice. Much appreciated.

I called the alabama Jaguar dealer to make sure the PPI was the CPO one, which it wasn't (as a few of you pointed out). They don't typically offer the CPO one to the public, so they didn't have it listed on a price sheet -- but we're doing it anyways. They'll also price out any repairs needed, because maybe we'll get it done there. And they confirmed that they'll do a test drive for me during the CPO PPI.

I also had them recommend the Jaguar authorized body shop they send people to. Hopefully they'll be able to do a PPI for me as well, I should find out tomorrow.

I can certainly go ahead and fly out to test drive the car. I'll hold off on the airline ticket until PPI results are in, and probably waffle some more along the way.

Prior to posting here, I wasn't really sure what a test drive would buy me, outside of what the Jaguar mechanic would find test driving the car. You guys are used to driving an XKR and know what it's supposed to act like. (Anyone want a free trip to Alabama?) Me, I've spent no more than an hour behind the wheel of a 2010+ XKR, after a few local test drives over the past two years. It's hard to keep a critical eye out when I'm drooling over the noise, the power, and the beauty of it. I'm not a mechanic either, so I'm going to trust that the PPIs are hopefully better than what I could do myself.

That being said, I think there's value to looking at the paint up close, looking at the gaps between the panels, things along those lines - and I can do that. I'm not sure I'd say "no" to a car that had previously repaired damage, or one with minor dings, but I can certainly ask for repairs or repair money. Going through every switch in the manual is something I can definitely do, and sounds like a great idea. Unsure whether I could tell if there were cylinder misfires like Patrick suggested, but I'm sure I could with a few youtube searches.

If I decide to buy and problems happen later on, looks like there's a few options.
- There is an included 3-month 3K mile warranty that the dealer has listed on their site. I'm trying to get a written answer that I'd be able to use my own mechanic to repair any issues that come up. I believe the warranty is the Platinum Drivetrain through ASC, which covers major components but leaves out quite a bit.
- Massachusetts has a used car lemon law, which for this kind of mileage looks like 2 months, 2500 miles. Law says dealers are required to fix any defects that impair the vehicle's use or safety, either themselves, using an agent, or the manufacturer. They get three attempts to fix or full refund. Unsure if any of this still applies since the dealer is out of state, my guess is it does not.

Thanks again!

 

A CPO PPI should include the body and paint. I would push back but certainly a second opinion never hurts. Make sure they print out every code the car has thrown. DTC history is saved.

Light it up like it's a rental.


Does the Massachusetts lemon law apply to Dealers out of State. I would think they have limited jurisdiction.

I would vehemently push for those service records. It's a deal breaker for me. Have the seller get them for you. They're motivated too.

You really want to know if the water pump has been replaced (again those DTC codes), and which iteration was it replaced with. If it hasn't been replaced, plan on that being your first maintenance item imo.

 

You know the more I read this thread the more I feel that there is NO color combo etc that justifies this much drama over buying a used car. Add in the highish mileage, all the unknowns and the price, and, well there are just too many XKs out there for sale. I think the OP should take a break from this XK and look at some others.

When I read all of the info about this car, a local 2014 XK with 6000 miles for around $35K keeps popping in my head as an example of a great deal. This particular one I have driven and it is truly a new XK. Yeah, I get it is not a "R", but if you haven't driven the 5.0 XK you might just be surprised. It is a very spirited ride and when you think about it the 5.0 N/A XK with 385hp is almost as strong as the 4.2 Supercharged 420hp versions, only a 35hp difference..with a little less maintenance headaches. Of course the 5.0 Supercharged XKRs are literal Beasties, but the 5.0 XK is no slouch either.

Yeah, i get it is not an R or a Conv, but the point is the XK(R) market is a buyers market and there are lots of options out there with literally more being added everyday as they come off lease etc..

Again, my recommendation for the OP is to back off on this one, or even any for a few weeks. Trust me, take a little break it will but things more into perspective and you will have better luck finding the "right" car at the "right" price.

Just a thought,

Dave

 

I can understand and appreciate the OP's position. I found during my search for a 2012 XKR convert the most difficult part was finding a car of color. I was looking for Green , Red or Blue and search all of the car sites and dealer sites. I found a Blue one in Fl and another in LV. and both had a deposit within a week. Never saw a Green one and the only Red one I saw I bought sight unseen but was a CPO car trade in from the selling dealer. If I wanted to buy and XK or XKR or even a coupe they were a lot of them in either Black , Gray , Silver or White. Those colors to me are a non sell and I didn't even consider looking at. So the OP has a tough decision to either review all of the inspections and based on the results make a decision to buy or wait another couple of months for one to show up. I wish him luck either way.

 

I did the same thing when I started my search. Fell in love with a red XK, same color combo as my Super V8. I was willing to pay up for it but my wife talked me down.

The red one was still for sale 4 months after I bought mine. I still yearn for the red coupe, but am grateful and happy with what I have.

 

Continued updates for all of you interested in the progress:

The CPO PPI from Jaguar Birmingham is tomorrow.

The dealer's 3 month 3K mile warranty is that Platinum Powertrain one through ASC. I'd be able to use local mechanics, as long as they're on ASC's list. It doesn't list everything, so for example if the infotainment unit is hosed, that's not covered.

I received pictures of the keys, the user manual, the floormats, and the spare tire, tools, etc. in the inside of the trunk. I also received close ups of the driver's side bolster and the dash. Locking lug nuts come with it too. Those pics are in this google drive.

To Dave (10XKR), I'm not sure I understand why you mentioned this car is so drama filled. Based on some of my past relationships, I might have a high tolerance for drama, but this car has seemed pretty straightforward to me so far:
- The price weirdness (listed at $35K first) I knew was weird before I contacted the dealer, and I thought their explanation made sense. They bought it from them and are raising the price. That's unfortunate, but I get that, they found it before I did and they are entitled to make money on the deal
- This dealer has actually been really helpful getting me information that I've asked for, take specific pictures, they're willing to drive it to the PPI, pick me up from the airport, anything I've asked for so far. Based on how it's gone so far, I'd gladly give them my business. Sorry if that wasn't clear in any of my previous communications
- This dealer isn't unwilling to give up service records, they simply don't have them. Jaguar Ft Myers is currently unwilling to print out redacted service records to me, but they were happy to say how well the car was serviced, how she remembers the owner, and read out specific things that were replaced over the phone. This dealer is contacting them to see if they can work something out, since I'm still asking for the records.
- The pic where someone called out road rash and sees mismatch in color on the front, I'll find out the answer to that with the PPI(s).

I don't mind saying no to this car if there's bad feedback from the CPO PPI or I get uneasy feelings from any other part of the transaction. But I wouldn't think there's been drama about this, just some unknowns that hopefully I get answered before I take possession.

I think this is a great discussion. I'm an engineer who enjoys analyzing data. I'm cool with taking an educated gamble on things, but the key point is whether it's educated. And I know Stuart mentioned a bit about minimizing risk, and I completely agree that I need to do that. Looks like posting to this thread was the first step there for me.

And I'll add some of my logic and thought process to why I put the deposit on the car in the first place.

Based on data of seen over the past few years for XKR convertibles:
- 2010-2011 are regularly available for $25-35K, depending on mileage and condition. For the past few months, I've seen 2011s hovering a bit over $30K.
- 2012+ are generally $35K-45K
- CPO XKRs with any warranty have been $47K+

You guys probably have way more data then me, so please let me know if the ranges I've seen are off.

From everything I've read on these forums so far, it sounds like the general idea is to pick a few of the electronic options you want, since you can't easily add them. I really was looking for the parking sensors and maybe a backup camera on the XKR. I've been following jahummer/cambo's $1K android TV hack to get a camera and integrated music, and while it sounds like fun, I'd rather just drive the car for a while. For changing out colors? It doesn't sound like a seat swap is easily doable, coded to the car, so I'm either finding interiors that I like or settling for charcoal (no offense to anyone that has a charcoal interior, but I've been driving black interiors for the past ~15 years and I'm looking for a change). And we all know good paint jobs are $8-10K. For $35K, this car would have been a fantastic price in my head. Maybe I'm paying more at $39K when it's all said and done, but I'm okay with that kind of increase for the little extra smile. The question in my head has been "are the color+camera+sensors worth $5-10K or so over what I could find a 2010-2011 for", and that's sadly an emotional decision, the type I'm not so good with.

I'm not really interested in an XK or a coupe. Personal preference, but I'm looking to buy a convertible first and then I narrowed down to this model. I wanted more power than my daily driver (6MT 2013 Audi S4) with the luxury, sound, and style that this offers. If the F-Type had the XKR's backseat, this may have been a closer choice, but it's pretty much been XKR all the way. As much as everyone here laughs about it, my car loving toddler fits in the backseat great, and the Ridesafer Delight harness seems like it would be perfect for this situation.

For the record, I have bought one other used car sight unseen, and one with like a 15 minute test drive. The first one, I wish I was more diligent in testing - I loved the car tremendously when it wasn't in the shop. The latter is my current daily driver, but it was a CPO and I trust their mechanic - 3 years later and I haven't had an issue.

Thanks again to all of you for the feedback and the discussion. Hope I have some interesting PPI news to share tomorrow.

 

My apologies for a poor choice of words, not my intention.

Best of luck with the PPI, and when you go drive it, try like heck not to be seduced by all of that power and get distracted...that is not easy to do!

Cheers,

Dave

 

 

For the OP, attached is the 165 point checklist that is done for a Jaguar CPO warranty. You can hand it to then when you take it in but the actual results should be an itemized checklist with each of these items checked off

 

Okay, the CPO PPI happened today at Jaguar Birmingham, and I'm glad I did it, since two significant problems were found:

1) a significant coolant leak, from the coolant bridge (?) , which was leaking into the supercharger gasket (I believe that's what she said) -- $1600. Jaguar Birmingham said this was a common failure, and a new part released last month will resolve this.

2) suspension problems, due to wear and tear: worn bushings, struts, swaybar, end links, tie-rods, control arms, etc. -- $4K. Jaguar Birmingham said this is all normal wear, expected on a 70K mileage car.

I haven't seen the full checklist yet, the written details, or the bill, as this was all over the phone and it was the end of their day. Jaguar Birmingham did say everything else went well, "drove straight, solid car", and that I shouldn't hesitate to buy if it was fixed. But, I'm definitely hesitating.

In other news, Jaguar Fort Myers (where the previous work was completed) continues to talk about privacy laws and refuses to provide service records to the owner (current dealer), even redacted. I mean, I could probably ask Jaguar NA to get involved, but do I even want this hassle based on the PPI results?

So - to all of you:
- Assuming the current dealer (World Class) offered to have Jaguar Birmingham fix all of this stuff at their own cost (and maybe throw in a warranty to assuage my fears), would you consider it?
- Do these sound like standard issues expected on a 2013 with this many miles that I should be thrilled gets fixed for free, or is this a giant red flag which should cause me to run away?

On one hand, it would be a car that would have some new suspension components and another failure mode (coolant leak) reduced.

On the other hand, I can back away now with only the cost of a PPI and feel better that I've dodged a bullet.

Thanks again!

 

The coolant leak and worn bushings are not unexpected and would not be a deal breaker for me, provided the Seller either pays for those repairs or reduces the price. But I'm pretty picky and there may be other cosmetic flaws not reported in the PPI that could be costly to fix. Only you can decide if and when you're comfortable with buying that car.

 

The worn bushings is a BS easy money hit the 99% of the Jags on the road suffer from. All of the transparent rubberized grease seals on our suspensions dry rot and fail. That allows some dirt and grime to get into the suspension joints and wear them prematurely, maybe. One of my goals for this summer is to source decent replacements. There are a couple threads about it. I'd lay money that every single car you PPI will come up with suspension joint. It's a garbage design and **** poor material source for the application. I checked mine during the wheel bearing replacement and many of the joints in question are Teflon housed, not steel where I'd worry too much.

Per the blower coolant bridge I would ask them to cover that repair or at least get better pics and description so the 5.0 guys on here can give more relevant advice.

 

 

Well the question isn't whether the suspension is BS. If it needs replacing and the OP can't DIY or doesn't, $4k is about right.
If I were buying, I would have the seller agree to fix the coolant issue and reduce the price due to suspension. An Indy will do it for less if in fact it needs it. Maybe split the difference by half. I would also go back to the dealer and ask if they can confirm which iteration of water pump is on the car.
Lastly, have the seller get the history for you. Tell them it's a deal breaker, even if it isn't. I think at this point, again if it were me, I would be down to test driving it and haggling price.

 

 

If the OP doesn't buy it, I lay money the dealer will get an indy to fix the coolant leak and forget about the rest after telling the OP to pound sand on any major discount. They aren't going to lose money on a flip sale vert in the beginning of summer.

 

Hi,

If at all possible could you please share the details of this when you get them (please ask for this). If this is indeed a "New Fix" it would be great to share with everyone.

Thanks for your time,

Dave