Thought on the purchase of an XK series Jaguar - a primer for newbies
#1
01-29-2012, 09:54 PM
Thought on the purchase of an XK series Jaguar - a primer for newbies
Note I live in Virginia, so this post is USA-centric.
I just went through the process of learning about the XK series Jaguars and then buying one, and I thought I would share some of what I learned for others who might be starting on the same path.
You can find two types of people on this forum: Jaguar enthusiasts who know plenty about the vehicles (and who are quite helpful), and people just getting into Jaguar, perhaps shopping for their first Jag or at least their first XK.
If you are in the latter group, and you have wisely come here to do your homework, one of the first things you want to know is how do current owners feel about the vehicles and how reliable are they.
It will not take much time reading this forum to realize that most people are delighted to be Jaguar owners. Many love the cars, some might be said to be in love with them. Sure there are gripes, but they tend to be minor - the gear shift button (or some other component) is plastic, the seat belt chime is annoying, the little wheel caps fly off (that last gripe was from me). Other forums sometimes degrade into complaint fests. That is not the case here.
You can get a feel for a car’s reliability in many ways. Here’s three: One way is reading what people say here, which is mostly positive. A second way is to review CarFax reports. Many CarFax reports are available for free on sites such as Cars.com. You can pick a model year and a mileage range and pull up dozens. I did this for 07 XK convertibles. It would seem reasonable that the first year of a new model might have more problems, and that convertibles have added components that might fail. The reports showed few problems. The cars seemed to need new batteries sooner that most, and tires do not seem to last real long either. Electrical systems are often being checked. I did see one vehicle that was bought back by Jaguar under the lemon laws, so obviously you can run into a clunker, but it is the exception. Of course, we are talking about Jaguars here so when something does go wrong expect to pay top rates for parts and labor. Jag mechanics bill out at $100+ per hour.
A third way to glean reliability data is to read posts (here and elsewhere) about extended warranties. I did, and found that you can find plenty of people talking about buying the warranties. They talk about peace of mind and avoiding the potential of financial-ruin-repair-hell. You can find posts about the warranty companies living up to expectations and others ranting about the red tape and run-arounds. What I did not find were bunches of people raving about what a sound financial decision they made when looking back on a warranty. You have to figure that if repairs costs avoided amounted to a lot more than the warranty costs that people would be crowing about what a good decision they made. Comments like that were very hard to find.
So lets get to the meat of this. If you want to buy an XK series vehicle you have three basic decisions to make:
1. 2006 and prior vs. 2007 and later,
2. Coupe vs. Convertible,
3. XK vs. XKR
Each of these decisions can be based on personal preference and on economics. I’ll tackle them one at a time:
2006 and prior vs. 2007 and later:
The first question you have to answer is, which model looks better. Then figure out which one you want.
I bought my Jaguar from a Bentley dealer in West Palm Beach Florida. While going over the paperwork I had to point out that they had the model wrong in several places. The car was an XK not, as they were showing, an XKE.
The XKE is, of course, an iconic Jaguar of the 1960's and 70's. Even people who know very little about Jaguars, or even cars in general, probably have heard of the XKE (E-type in the UK). It is considered one of the best looking cars of all times. It is said that even Enzo Ferrari called it "The most beautiful car ever made."
When Jaguar introduced the XK8 in 1996 they were paying homage to the XKE. It’s a real beauty. The model designation, XK8, was a notice that this was an eight cylinder vehicle, not a V-12.
When they revised the body style in 2007 they dropped the “8" and just called it the XK. The XK has an aluminum body, a red start button instead of an ignition key, and shift paddles behind the steering wheel. I started out intending to buy a 2003-2005. But after reading, and seeing, and driving I decided on the 2007 and on. To me, and several others I talked to, the XK is more refined that the XK8. Obviously it is newer, and it looks very much like the new cars in the showroom. Test drive both, it’s the only was to make a good decision.
The XK8's are harder to find, especially if you are looking at Jag dealers, but they cost a lot less. With $20 to $25k to spend you can find a nice convertible XK8 or an XKR. An 07 convertible will cost more like $35+. But imagine that you and your neighbor have $25,000 to spend. You buy a red 2005 XK8 and the neighbor buys a brand new minivan. Who do the neighbors crowd around when the vehicles are brought home? Of course when its time to pick up your kids soccer team, minivan-guy wins, but offer to take the player-of-the-game for a top down spin after each contest and in no time, you will probably be managing all stars.
Coupe vs. convertible
For me this was a no-brainer. Driving a beautiful car on a crisp spring day or a warm summer evening cries out for a drop top. I never considered a coupe. But many do. Many think the coupes look better, plus the coupe does not sit prey to any idiot with a knife.
Anyone considering a convertible has to be concerned about the structural soundness and even the potential for leaks. The XK , as you will often read, was designed first as a convertible and then as a coupe. It’s solid.
When new, the drop top added about $6000 to the price. While depreciation has lessened the spread, you must still pay a premium for the cabriolet.
XK vs. XKR
When new an XKR costs about $10,000 more than an XK, representing a premium of about 10 to 12% or so. . Surprisingly that dollar difference persists in the used market making the percentage premium for the XKR even higher.
Obviously the XKR is faster, and it has the added panache of having a supercharger. It heralds that distinction with great looking hood scoops and less conspicuous R badges.
There are fewer XKR’s than XK’s. Prior to 2007, XKR’s represented about 30 to 35% of the units sold. Some have said that the percentage has been even lower since 2007. On this forum however, XKR owners appear to be in the majority (as I stated above, enthusiasts hang out here).
Aside from speed, the XKR also provides a stiffer ride. Whether that is a performance-enhancing plus or a harshness subtraction probably depends on your age.
When shopping for these vehicles I found it harder to find low mileage XKR’s. Apparently there are people out there who will pony up 80 or 90 grand or so for an XK and then let it sit in their garage, but XKR folks seem more likely to drive them (and perhaps drive them harder).
I also found less color choice in XKR’s. Blacks and dark colors predominate.
Personally I wavered back and forth between the two right up until I made my purchase. Except for the car I bought (a 2007 XK) the only other car I made a offer on was an XKR.
Psychologists tell us that we derive more pleasure from the shopping experience that we do from ownership. They say that if you go through the shopping process and then buy nothing, both your head and your wallet will fare better. But XK shopping stands that theory on its head. The shopping portion has much potential for anxiety, while the ownership experience can bring much pleasure.
Why is shopping not pure bliss? Because these cars are rare. Even if there is a Jag dealer near your home they are unlikely to have many (or any) of these cars. Perhaps two or three at most, if you are lucky. Non Jag dealers rarely will have more than one. Trying to see the different colors in person is a real challenge.
2007 was the biggest production year for the XK series and still only 4500 vehicles were sold. The number dropped to about 1000 in 2008 and has hovered around 2000 per year since. Dice those numbers between convertible/coupe and XK/XKR and then factor in interior and exterior colors and you begin to realize how few of your dream cars are out there. So if you pass up that Winter Gold coupe with the charcoal interior, how long will it be before you ever find another?
There was an interesting discussion in the XK8 section where people talked about how far they traveled to buy their Jaguar. In many cases the cars were bought long distance. Buying a car before you actually see it is scarey. Buying it and waiting for it to be transported to you for your first look is nail biting. On the other hand if you are going to be flying half way across the country to look at one, don’t expect to have too much negotiating power.
Psychologists also tell us that we get more happiness from experiences than we do from things. They say spending on a vacation trumps buying that flat screen. Perhaps, but here again the Jaguar plays havoc with such notions. Owning an XK is to find ones self in a series of happy experiences. Most here enjoy the experience of just walking up to the car. Some admit to poking their heads in the garage just to see it. The feel of the seats, the sound of the engine, the never ending series of appreciative glances from onlookers all enhance the ownership experience.
In the British TV series Top Gear there is a short segment where they pit an XKR against an Aston Martin. For those of us unlikely to drive 175 mhp any time soon some of the challenges and conclusions may not seem very relevant. But when Jeremy Clarkson stands away from the Jag and asks: having seen this could you then go out and buy a BMW or a Mercedes? He concludes: I couldn’t. And let me tell you, I couldn’t either.
edit: the video link (it's a great video): http://www.streetfire.net/video/014-...nta_182105.htm
Tony
I just went through the process of learning about the XK series Jaguars and then buying one, and I thought I would share some of what I learned for others who might be starting on the same path.
You can find two types of people on this forum: Jaguar enthusiasts who know plenty about the vehicles (and who are quite helpful), and people just getting into Jaguar, perhaps shopping for their first Jag or at least their first XK.
If you are in the latter group, and you have wisely come here to do your homework, one of the first things you want to know is how do current owners feel about the vehicles and how reliable are they.
It will not take much time reading this forum to realize that most people are delighted to be Jaguar owners. Many love the cars, some might be said to be in love with them. Sure there are gripes, but they tend to be minor - the gear shift button (or some other component) is plastic, the seat belt chime is annoying, the little wheel caps fly off (that last gripe was from me). Other forums sometimes degrade into complaint fests. That is not the case here.
You can get a feel for a car’s reliability in many ways. Here’s three: One way is reading what people say here, which is mostly positive. A second way is to review CarFax reports. Many CarFax reports are available for free on sites such as Cars.com. You can pick a model year and a mileage range and pull up dozens. I did this for 07 XK convertibles. It would seem reasonable that the first year of a new model might have more problems, and that convertibles have added components that might fail. The reports showed few problems. The cars seemed to need new batteries sooner that most, and tires do not seem to last real long either. Electrical systems are often being checked. I did see one vehicle that was bought back by Jaguar under the lemon laws, so obviously you can run into a clunker, but it is the exception. Of course, we are talking about Jaguars here so when something does go wrong expect to pay top rates for parts and labor. Jag mechanics bill out at $100+ per hour.
A third way to glean reliability data is to read posts (here and elsewhere) about extended warranties. I did, and found that you can find plenty of people talking about buying the warranties. They talk about peace of mind and avoiding the potential of financial-ruin-repair-hell. You can find posts about the warranty companies living up to expectations and others ranting about the red tape and run-arounds. What I did not find were bunches of people raving about what a sound financial decision they made when looking back on a warranty. You have to figure that if repairs costs avoided amounted to a lot more than the warranty costs that people would be crowing about what a good decision they made. Comments like that were very hard to find.
So lets get to the meat of this. If you want to buy an XK series vehicle you have three basic decisions to make:
1. 2006 and prior vs. 2007 and later,
2. Coupe vs. Convertible,
3. XK vs. XKR
Each of these decisions can be based on personal preference and on economics. I’ll tackle them one at a time:
2006 and prior vs. 2007 and later:
The first question you have to answer is, which model looks better. Then figure out which one you want.
I bought my Jaguar from a Bentley dealer in West Palm Beach Florida. While going over the paperwork I had to point out that they had the model wrong in several places. The car was an XK not, as they were showing, an XKE.
The XKE is, of course, an iconic Jaguar of the 1960's and 70's. Even people who know very little about Jaguars, or even cars in general, probably have heard of the XKE (E-type in the UK). It is considered one of the best looking cars of all times. It is said that even Enzo Ferrari called it "The most beautiful car ever made."
When Jaguar introduced the XK8 in 1996 they were paying homage to the XKE. It’s a real beauty. The model designation, XK8, was a notice that this was an eight cylinder vehicle, not a V-12.
When they revised the body style in 2007 they dropped the “8" and just called it the XK. The XK has an aluminum body, a red start button instead of an ignition key, and shift paddles behind the steering wheel. I started out intending to buy a 2003-2005. But after reading, and seeing, and driving I decided on the 2007 and on. To me, and several others I talked to, the XK is more refined that the XK8. Obviously it is newer, and it looks very much like the new cars in the showroom. Test drive both, it’s the only was to make a good decision.
The XK8's are harder to find, especially if you are looking at Jag dealers, but they cost a lot less. With $20 to $25k to spend you can find a nice convertible XK8 or an XKR. An 07 convertible will cost more like $35+. But imagine that you and your neighbor have $25,000 to spend. You buy a red 2005 XK8 and the neighbor buys a brand new minivan. Who do the neighbors crowd around when the vehicles are brought home? Of course when its time to pick up your kids soccer team, minivan-guy wins, but offer to take the player-of-the-game for a top down spin after each contest and in no time, you will probably be managing all stars.
Coupe vs. convertible
For me this was a no-brainer. Driving a beautiful car on a crisp spring day or a warm summer evening cries out for a drop top. I never considered a coupe. But many do. Many think the coupes look better, plus the coupe does not sit prey to any idiot with a knife.
Anyone considering a convertible has to be concerned about the structural soundness and even the potential for leaks. The XK , as you will often read, was designed first as a convertible and then as a coupe. It’s solid.
When new, the drop top added about $6000 to the price. While depreciation has lessened the spread, you must still pay a premium for the cabriolet.
XK vs. XKR
When new an XKR costs about $10,000 more than an XK, representing a premium of about 10 to 12% or so. . Surprisingly that dollar difference persists in the used market making the percentage premium for the XKR even higher.
Obviously the XKR is faster, and it has the added panache of having a supercharger. It heralds that distinction with great looking hood scoops and less conspicuous R badges.
There are fewer XKR’s than XK’s. Prior to 2007, XKR’s represented about 30 to 35% of the units sold. Some have said that the percentage has been even lower since 2007. On this forum however, XKR owners appear to be in the majority (as I stated above, enthusiasts hang out here).
Aside from speed, the XKR also provides a stiffer ride. Whether that is a performance-enhancing plus or a harshness subtraction probably depends on your age.
When shopping for these vehicles I found it harder to find low mileage XKR’s. Apparently there are people out there who will pony up 80 or 90 grand or so for an XK and then let it sit in their garage, but XKR folks seem more likely to drive them (and perhaps drive them harder).
I also found less color choice in XKR’s. Blacks and dark colors predominate.
Personally I wavered back and forth between the two right up until I made my purchase. Except for the car I bought (a 2007 XK) the only other car I made a offer on was an XKR.
Psychologists tell us that we derive more pleasure from the shopping experience that we do from ownership. They say that if you go through the shopping process and then buy nothing, both your head and your wallet will fare better. But XK shopping stands that theory on its head. The shopping portion has much potential for anxiety, while the ownership experience can bring much pleasure.
Why is shopping not pure bliss? Because these cars are rare. Even if there is a Jag dealer near your home they are unlikely to have many (or any) of these cars. Perhaps two or three at most, if you are lucky. Non Jag dealers rarely will have more than one. Trying to see the different colors in person is a real challenge.
2007 was the biggest production year for the XK series and still only 4500 vehicles were sold. The number dropped to about 1000 in 2008 and has hovered around 2000 per year since. Dice those numbers between convertible/coupe and XK/XKR and then factor in interior and exterior colors and you begin to realize how few of your dream cars are out there. So if you pass up that Winter Gold coupe with the charcoal interior, how long will it be before you ever find another?
There was an interesting discussion in the XK8 section where people talked about how far they traveled to buy their Jaguar. In many cases the cars were bought long distance. Buying a car before you actually see it is scarey. Buying it and waiting for it to be transported to you for your first look is nail biting. On the other hand if you are going to be flying half way across the country to look at one, don’t expect to have too much negotiating power.
Psychologists also tell us that we get more happiness from experiences than we do from things. They say spending on a vacation trumps buying that flat screen. Perhaps, but here again the Jaguar plays havoc with such notions. Owning an XK is to find ones self in a series of happy experiences. Most here enjoy the experience of just walking up to the car. Some admit to poking their heads in the garage just to see it. The feel of the seats, the sound of the engine, the never ending series of appreciative glances from onlookers all enhance the ownership experience.
In the British TV series Top Gear there is a short segment where they pit an XKR against an Aston Martin. For those of us unlikely to drive 175 mhp any time soon some of the challenges and conclusions may not seem very relevant. But when Jeremy Clarkson stands away from the Jag and asks: having seen this could you then go out and buy a BMW or a Mercedes? He concludes: I couldn’t. And let me tell you, I couldn’t either.
edit: the video link (it's a great video): http://www.streetfire.net/video/014-...nta_182105.htm
Tony
Last edited by Havebook; 05-30-2012 at 08:43 AM.
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#4
01-30-2012, 02:05 AM
Senior Member
Havebook;
Welcome to the forum.
Very clear and great analysis.
You are going to be a pleasant addition to the forum.
There is another major decision point sub grouping of the XK8 range at the 4.0 engine/transmissions '96-'02, and the very improved 4.2 engine/transmissions from the '03-'06.
The former having several issues discussed ad nauseum here that certainly convinced me to avoid them and look at 2003-2006 models.
I would point out that the MPG for the XKR's is only two or three miles per gallon less and like the convertible top why not have the option?
In this case of another 100HP on tap when you need to get to work on time.
Those hesitant about the convertible should drive one first, as they are about the quietest convertibles I have ever driven, top up or down, in a long personal history of flip tops. They are a three layer top and this no doubt contributes to the low noise factor.
But they are all good and if you take to heart preventative maintenance, rather than waiting for something to break, are not much more expensive to run than a BMW and certainly less than a MB.
And for that you get something that not only looks fantastic but is exceedingly rare on the road, usually.
Just don't join my gym please, we now have three XKR convertible's in the parking lot since I got mine.
I obviously came down on the other side of the design divide as a personal preference for the lines of the pre 2007 as being one of the best 'retro' design cars to come along, being wonderfully evocative of the E-types.
The other perhaps even better 'retro' look being the '02-'06 Mini's which not coincidentally we also have, also supercharged.
Thanks again for reminding me why I picked the beauty and the performance of the XKR.
cheers,
jj
PS I don't think it was mentioned that Coupes are less than a third of total production in any year making them in some markets more expensive than convertibles. This would make XKR Coupes the rarest combination at less than one ninth of total production.
Welcome to the forum.
Very clear and great analysis.
You are going to be a pleasant addition to the forum.
There is another major decision point sub grouping of the XK8 range at the 4.0 engine/transmissions '96-'02, and the very improved 4.2 engine/transmissions from the '03-'06.
The former having several issues discussed ad nauseum here that certainly convinced me to avoid them and look at 2003-2006 models.
I would point out that the MPG for the XKR's is only two or three miles per gallon less and like the convertible top why not have the option?
In this case of another 100HP on tap when you need to get to work on time.
Those hesitant about the convertible should drive one first, as they are about the quietest convertibles I have ever driven, top up or down, in a long personal history of flip tops. They are a three layer top and this no doubt contributes to the low noise factor.
But they are all good and if you take to heart preventative maintenance, rather than waiting for something to break, are not much more expensive to run than a BMW and certainly less than a MB.
And for that you get something that not only looks fantastic but is exceedingly rare on the road, usually.
Just don't join my gym please, we now have three XKR convertible's in the parking lot since I got mine.
I obviously came down on the other side of the design divide as a personal preference for the lines of the pre 2007 as being one of the best 'retro' design cars to come along, being wonderfully evocative of the E-types.
The other perhaps even better 'retro' look being the '02-'06 Mini's which not coincidentally we also have, also supercharged.
Thanks again for reminding me why I picked the beauty and the performance of the XKR.
cheers,
jj
PS I don't think it was mentioned that Coupes are less than a third of total production in any year making them in some markets more expensive than convertibles. This would make XKR Coupes the rarest combination at less than one ninth of total production.
Last edited by jamjax; 01-30-2012 at 11:33 PM.
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yukhateeee (12-05-2013)
#5
01-30-2012, 02:32 AM
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#7
01-30-2012, 06:02 AM
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I personelly prefer the coup but I do have just a touch of regret over no Super Charger. The differential on 07 XKs to XKRs was $5 to $10k when I was in the market. Dang!
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#10
01-30-2012, 04:09 PM
Senior Member
Havebook,
Great write up. You are spot on about the emotional connection to these cars. The "which is better looking, the XK8 or the XK debate?" has been going on for years on this forum...
As for me, I researched the pre-and post 2006 cars and finally settled on the 08 (I did not know that 08 was the smallest number built). Anyway, from my perspective, I think the pre 2006 is drop dead beautiful. The car is a truly classic Jaguar design. Of course, there is no mistaking the XK8 for anything but a Jaguar, and that is surely a good thing...
As most folks know, the design of the post 2006 XK was penned by the guy who had been designing Aston Martins for years. As a result, the post 2006 XK is the virtual twin sister to the Astons (especially the DB9). Look, my 2008 XK may not bring back visions of the 1960s XKE, but I am quite satisfied the car I bought three years old for under $40,000.00, is the virtual identical twin to a $200,000.00 super car.
And...damn, do the people stare. I feel like a rock star driving this thing...
Great write up. You are spot on about the emotional connection to these cars. The "which is better looking, the XK8 or the XK debate?" has been going on for years on this forum...
As for me, I researched the pre-and post 2006 cars and finally settled on the 08 (I did not know that 08 was the smallest number built). Anyway, from my perspective, I think the pre 2006 is drop dead beautiful. The car is a truly classic Jaguar design. Of course, there is no mistaking the XK8 for anything but a Jaguar, and that is surely a good thing...
As most folks know, the design of the post 2006 XK was penned by the guy who had been designing Aston Martins for years. As a result, the post 2006 XK is the virtual twin sister to the Astons (especially the DB9). Look, my 2008 XK may not bring back visions of the 1960s XKE, but I am quite satisfied the car I bought three years old for under $40,000.00, is the virtual identical twin to a $200,000.00 super car.
And...damn, do the people stare. I feel like a rock star driving this thing...
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yukhateeee (12-05-2013)
#12
01-30-2012, 07:46 PM
#13
01-30-2012, 11:30 PM
Senior Member
Unless there is some deep seated new love affair with the '07 design and you just want more power why not consider the Avos Twin Screw Supercharger update...would me much less than the cost of getting a new car.
Then you can have the looks of the 'classic' and the power of the 'new' design.
cheers,
jj
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Jihjih (10-10-2012)
#14
01-31-2012, 04:45 AM
Senior Member
Good intro and comments.I bought the coupe mainly because I live in Lancashire, Englad. And it rains all the frickin time!
I sort of wish I'd got the XKR rather than the XK, but then there wasn't an XKR available when I pulled the trigger, and then there is the whole insurance extra and so on...
Don't s'pose you can retro fit the supercharger? No....no no...sorry...just dreaming there that it would be a simple clip on thing...I know it won't be.
But still, I love my XK..when I want to go super fast I'll be on the motorbike anyways!
#15
01-31-2012, 02:44 PM
Good intro and comments.I bought the coupe mainly because I live in Lancashire, Englad. And it rains all the frickin time!
I sort of wish I'd got the XKR rather than the XK, but then there wasn't an XKR available when I pulled the trigger, and then there is the whole insurance extra and so on...
Don't s'pose you can retro fit the supercharger? No....no no...sorry...just dreaming there that it would be a simple clip on thing...I know it won't be.
But still, I love my XK..when I want to go super fast I'll be on the motorbike anyways!
#17
01-31-2012, 03:42 PM
#18
01-31-2012, 06:01 PM
r0m;
Unless there is some deep seated new love affair with the '07 design and you just want more power why not consider the Avos Twin Screw Supercharger update...would me much less than the cost of getting a new car.
Then you can have the looks of the 'classic' and the power of the 'new' design.
cheers,
jj
Unless there is some deep seated new love affair with the '07 design and you just want more power why not consider the Avos Twin Screw Supercharger update...would me much less than the cost of getting a new car.
Then you can have the looks of the 'classic' and the power of the 'new' design.
cheers,
jj
Not looking for extra hp either - 420 is plenty enough. I never ran out of power on mine, and there will always be cars with more hp regardless of what you have. Heck, my office parking lot on occasions has Gallardo, 911 GT2 and the occasional Maybach. Much better off (and cheaper) with a Ninja or GSX-R anyway - had I craved speed.
One phrase though - and repeat after me 'no more stupid tonneau cover!'
#19
02-01-2012, 12:16 AM
Senior Member
Bob;
Hope you didn't get disenchanted with your car after your road trip through the "Land of Enchantment" in New Mexico.
I have to agree about the top down ugglies, after all Ford figured out the metal convertible cover in the 50's on the Thunderbird.
But to be honest I can't really see the top when it is down and I am driving and I haven't bothered to put the tonneau cover on yet.
Nice parking lot, reminds me of the parking lot at Citigroup in London, looked like the one under the Casino in Monaco.
Oil Businsess going well is it?
cheers,
jj
Hope you didn't get disenchanted with your car after your road trip through the "Land of Enchantment" in New Mexico.
I have to agree about the top down ugglies, after all Ford figured out the metal convertible cover in the 50's on the Thunderbird.
But to be honest I can't really see the top when it is down and I am driving and I haven't bothered to put the tonneau cover on yet.
Nice parking lot, reminds me of the parking lot at Citigroup in London, looked like the one under the Casino in Monaco.
Oil Businsess going well is it?
cheers,
jj
