View Poll Results: I performed the fuel pump test on my '99-'02 XKR and discovered that:
Both my fuel pumps are working
16
51.61%
My primary fuel pump has failed
3
9.68%
My secondary fuel pump has failed
12
38.71%
Voters: 31. You may not vote on this poll
'99-'02 XKR Owner: Are you running on just one fuel pump?
#21
06-11-2014, 09:56 PM
Howdy folks:
I just did the jumper test and fuel pump relay #1 activated a pump while fuel pump relay #2 would not activate a pump. (fuse #7 tested good)
I had just assumed that fuel pump relay #1 activated the primary fuel pump and fuel pump relay #2 activated the secondary fuel pump but that was before I checked my PDF file 2002 XK8 Range Electrical Guide.(AJ27 SC Engine Management Part 2 fig.04.4)
Fuel pump 2 relay pin 5 OY lead runs to fuel pump 1 and fuel pump 1 relay (#4) pin 5 NW lead runs to fuel pump 2. (just the opposite of what I would have assumed)
My question is which relay and pump numbers correspond to primary and secondary and is there a misprint on my copy?
I am just confused and curious, but at any rate, I feel confident that I can make the repair.
Thanks all.
I just did the jumper test and fuel pump relay #1 activated a pump while fuel pump relay #2 would not activate a pump. (fuse #7 tested good)
I had just assumed that fuel pump relay #1 activated the primary fuel pump and fuel pump relay #2 activated the secondary fuel pump but that was before I checked my PDF file 2002 XK8 Range Electrical Guide.(AJ27 SC Engine Management Part 2 fig.04.4)
Fuel pump 2 relay pin 5 OY lead runs to fuel pump 1 and fuel pump 1 relay (#4) pin 5 NW lead runs to fuel pump 2. (just the opposite of what I would have assumed)
My question is which relay and pump numbers correspond to primary and secondary and is there a misprint on my copy?
I am just confused and curious, but at any rate, I feel confident that I can make the repair.
Thanks all.
#22
06-12-2014, 04:35 AM
Senior Member
#23
07-05-2014, 09:14 AM
When I start my 01' right out the box, it usually does it within what I think it sounds like is 5 revolutions of the crankshaft. Almost a year ago it began taking more turns than that. It sounds like 10 to 15 spins before it fired up. I suspected the secondary fuel pump since that's the one it's supposed to run when you hit the starter. I oiled up the fuel a little and really gave the machine a work out for maybe 20 miles using a lot of WFO acelleration. The next morning, it was back to 5 spins and I was happy about it. Then before this tank of treated fuel was used up, it went back to extended spins, but only the first crank out the box. After that first crank, it was normal. Like it lost some fuel rail pressure overnight? Then I realized that I was using the 10%, and switched to a no ethanol gas station. The situation has improved, but it has never returned completely back to the normal 5 spins.
Something else I have noticed is, if I let it spin 5 times or less and stop cranking, then hit the starter again, it fires up immediately. Does this sound like a lazy secondary pump, or indicative of something else you guys have experience with?
Something else I have noticed is, if I let it spin 5 times or less and stop cranking, then hit the starter again, it fires up immediately. Does this sound like a lazy secondary pump, or indicative of something else you guys have experience with?
#24
07-05-2014, 09:31 AM
When I start my 01' right out the box, it usually does it within what I think it sounds like is 5 revolutions of the crankshaft. Almost a year ago it began taking more turns than that. It sounds like 10 to 15 spins before it fired up. I suspected the secondary fuel pump since that's the one it's supposed to run when you hit the starter. I oiled up the fuel a little and really gave the machine a work out for maybe 20 miles using a lot of WFO acelleration. The next morning, it was back to 5 spins and I was happy about it. Then before this tank of treated fuel was used up, it went back to extended spins, but only the first crank out the box. After that first crank, it was normal. Like it lost some fuel rail pressure overnight? Then I realized that I was using the 10%, and switched to a no ethanol gas station. The situation has improved, but it has never returned completely back to the normal 5 spins.
Something else I have noticed is, if I let it spin 5 times or less and stop cranking, then hit the starter again, it fires up immediately. Does this sound like a lazy secondary pump, or indicative of something else you guys have experience with?
Something else I have noticed is, if I let it spin 5 times or less and stop cranking, then hit the starter again, it fires up immediately. Does this sound like a lazy secondary pump, or indicative of something else you guys have experience with?
#26
07-06-2014, 09:52 AM
#27
07-07-2014, 11:16 AM
Hi Marc,
Just search "fuel pump replacement" and you will get all the info and proper links. I just successfully did this on my wife's 2001 XKR with some great pointers fro WhiteXKR.
Just read the info thoroughly and take your time and you will be fine. The fuel line removal is the most challenging and time consuming.
Good luck,
Mike
Just search "fuel pump replacement" and you will get all the info and proper links. I just successfully did this on my wife's 2001 XKR with some great pointers fro WhiteXKR.
Just read the info thoroughly and take your time and you will be fine. The fuel line removal is the most challenging and time consuming.
Good luck,
Mike
#28
07-09-2014, 08:43 AM
Thanks Mike. That disconnect under the car seems to be a serious PITA.
Now we know why the car was taking that little extra crank time. secondary pump failure.
Although I have a fully equipped workshop complete with a lift and everything else a DIY'er would need, I still don't like those dam quick disconnects. I have been stung before on other projects by those fuel lines. The thought of having to RIG those lines IF they fail to release gives me horrors especially when I think about where they are located. What were they thinking? We fought with my friends Avalanche more than a couple hours trying to change out his ruel rails. Next time we'll spray them with penetrating oil for a week before even trying to uhook them.
Anybody thought about cutting loose the lines right at the tank top? Those hose clamps can be cut and re-clamped. Would that give you enough room to get the tank slid back or laid back to get at those pumps?
Now we know why the car was taking that little extra crank time. secondary pump failure.
Although I have a fully equipped workshop complete with a lift and everything else a DIY'er would need, I still don't like those dam quick disconnects. I have been stung before on other projects by those fuel lines. The thought of having to RIG those lines IF they fail to release gives me horrors especially when I think about where they are located. What were they thinking? We fought with my friends Avalanche more than a couple hours trying to change out his ruel rails. Next time we'll spray them with penetrating oil for a week before even trying to uhook them.
Anybody thought about cutting loose the lines right at the tank top? Those hose clamps can be cut and re-clamped. Would that give you enough room to get the tank slid back or laid back to get at those pumps?
#29
07-09-2014, 09:04 AM
It is reported that if you order the Jaguar special fuel line release tool it works much better than third party release tools.
Here is an alternative approach: https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...access-118362/
Here is an alternative approach: https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...access-118362/
#30
07-10-2014, 08:42 AM
#31
07-15-2014, 08:20 PM
#32
08-13-2014, 01:01 PM
Senior Member
check engine light
i have an 02 xkr changed battery last winter --check engine light came on--used my cheep scanner to diagnose ---said code for 2nd pump on xkr --but o2 sensor on xk8----o2 sensor works on heat for the 1st seconds of start up-----------if i warm engine/system clear code it won't come back until the engine cools --even with numerous starts and stops--my secondary pump is shot though i believe ---now i have a new scanner --launch creader 7+--it says bank 1 upstream o2 sensor ------now it just gives me choice of xk models for my year ----it does differentiate supper charged and non supercharged on the xj8/xjr ---x350 models---any help would be greatly appreciated
#33
08-13-2014, 06:36 PM
i have an 02 xkr changed battery last winter --check engine light came on--used my cheep scanner to diagnose ---said code for 2nd pump on xkr --but o2 sensor on xk8----o2 sensor works on heat for the 1st seconds of start up-----------if i warm engine/system clear code it won't come back until the engine cools --even with numerous starts and stops--my secondary pump is shot though i believe ---now i have a new scanner --launch creader 7+--it says bank 1 upstream o2 sensor ------now it just gives me choice of xk models for my year ----it does differentiate supper charged and non supercharged on the xj8/xjr ---x350 models---any help would be greatly appreciated
On your car it mean a failure in the relay, ECU or circuit that drives the fuel pump number two RELAY...not the fuel pump itself.
First thing to check is if the relay is fully seated. Second is to swap it with another relay and see if the problem is cured.
#34
09-24-2014, 06:07 AM
Senior Member
sorry to make this problem and its related trouble code worse
well i changed my bank 1 upstream o2sensor 2 weeks ago --wanted to see if code came back and im readiness was complete --well it did and i passed emissions test here in ga.------i know the code means no 2 fuel pump on an 02 xkr but i just had a feeling----------sorry i know im throwing a monkey wrench into this ---but it's what i did to fix problem and the check engine light
#35
12-28-2016, 02:42 PM
Hello, were you able to figure this out? I have the same issue, car seems to run fine, jumpered pump1 relay and I can hear the pump, jumpered pump2 relay and nothing. Would be good to know whether this is the correct way to test pump2 before I start searching for it.
This is for a 02 XKR Coupe and I know that I can access the main pump through the subwoofer but where is the second one? (nothing in JTIS about pump2, where is that thing?)
edit: never mind, the two pumps are just next to each other in the tank. I pulled the bad one and now I am waiting for a new one to arrive (Airtex E2471 as per some follow members here).
Regards
This is for a 02 XKR Coupe and I know that I can access the main pump through the subwoofer but where is the second one? (nothing in JTIS about pump2, where is that thing?)
edit: never mind, the two pumps are just next to each other in the tank. I pulled the bad one and now I am waiting for a new one to arrive (Airtex E2471 as per some follow members here).
Regards
Howdy folks:
I just did the jumper test and fuel pump relay #1 activated a pump while fuel pump relay #2 would not activate a pump. (fuse #7 tested good)
I had just assumed that fuel pump relay #1 activated the primary fuel pump and fuel pump relay #2 activated the secondary fuel pump but that was before I checked my PDF file 2002 XK8 Range Electrical Guide.(AJ27 SC Engine Management Part 2 fig.04.4)
Fuel pump 2 relay pin 5 OY lead runs to fuel pump 1 and fuel pump 1 relay (#4) pin 5 NW lead runs to fuel pump 2. (just the opposite of what I would have assumed)
My question is which relay and pump numbers correspond to primary and secondary and is there a misprint on my copy?
I am just confused and curious, but at any rate, I feel confident that I can make the repair.
Thanks all.
I just did the jumper test and fuel pump relay #1 activated a pump while fuel pump relay #2 would not activate a pump. (fuse #7 tested good)
I had just assumed that fuel pump relay #1 activated the primary fuel pump and fuel pump relay #2 activated the secondary fuel pump but that was before I checked my PDF file 2002 XK8 Range Electrical Guide.(AJ27 SC Engine Management Part 2 fig.04.4)
Fuel pump 2 relay pin 5 OY lead runs to fuel pump 1 and fuel pump 1 relay (#4) pin 5 NW lead runs to fuel pump 2. (just the opposite of what I would have assumed)
My question is which relay and pump numbers correspond to primary and secondary and is there a misprint on my copy?
I am just confused and curious, but at any rate, I feel confident that I can make the repair.
Thanks all.
Last edited by markman; 12-28-2016 at 05:18 PM.
#36
05-10-2020, 09:05 AM
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: new york
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failed primary pump
some additions ...
There are two small telltales for a failed pump. Detonation will be encountered on heavy throttle climbing hills. Or, prolonged cranking.
The reason for this is that the ECM is only able to post a fault for a failed fuel pump primary coil and not the actual pump or the power circuit. The other possibility is inadequate pressure.
The normal operating roles of the two pumps as documented by Avos are as follows:
initial fuel rail priming - secondary pump
running - primary pump
heavy demand - primary pump + secondary pump
Another way to test is to use make a jumper lead consisting of a male spade connector, a foot of 14 or 16 gauge wire and an alligator clip. Connect the alligator clip to the battery power stud in the fuse box and insert the spade into the relay connection leading to each of the fuel pumps in turn. The pump should be heard spinning. The jumper lead can then be stored in the trunk in the event that it is needed in an emergency to jumper the circuit. Testing this way avoids having "restricted performance" lights due to the ECM detecting a missing relay as a bad relay.
If a car is usually not in high demand mode, the secondary pump can suffer from lack of use as it only comes on long enough to prime the fuel rail. If the fuel system is in good shape, the pump will get very little exercise. Given the effects of ethanol, this is something to be avoided. If a secondary pump has been pickling for some time, it can fail within a few miles of being pressed into service after the primary has failed.
On my own car, I added a small control box a few weeks ago to be able to balance the fuel pump usage. This was posted in the X308 section at the time. It is two SPDT toggle switches potted with epoxy in a used tic-tac box attached to the fusebox with double sided tape. The taps were made in the trunk harness close to the entry to the fusebox.
The switches control the primary circuits on the two fuel pump relays and allow selection of the fuel pump to be controlled by each relay. This way, the roles of the pumps can be reversed to even out usage patterns, or both pumps can be forced to either relay. This modification has to be top quality because if it is not reliable, a failure can strand the car just as easily as failed pump.
Once the system is in place, it is probably sufficient to do a role reversal at perhaps each change in the four seasons. Make the change with the ignition off so that the ECM does not see a "missing" relay during the change. If the jumper cable described above is also in the trunk, it would only take a couple of more minutes to verify that both pumps are still spinning.
There are two small telltales for a failed pump. Detonation will be encountered on heavy throttle climbing hills. Or, prolonged cranking.
The reason for this is that the ECM is only able to post a fault for a failed fuel pump primary coil and not the actual pump or the power circuit. The other possibility is inadequate pressure.
The normal operating roles of the two pumps as documented by Avos are as follows:
initial fuel rail priming - secondary pump
running - primary pump
heavy demand - primary pump + secondary pump
Another way to test is to use make a jumper lead consisting of a male spade connector, a foot of 14 or 16 gauge wire and an alligator clip. Connect the alligator clip to the battery power stud in the fuse box and insert the spade into the relay connection leading to each of the fuel pumps in turn. The pump should be heard spinning. The jumper lead can then be stored in the trunk in the event that it is needed in an emergency to jumper the circuit. Testing this way avoids having "restricted performance" lights due to the ECM detecting a missing relay as a bad relay.
If a car is usually not in high demand mode, the secondary pump can suffer from lack of use as it only comes on long enough to prime the fuel rail. If the fuel system is in good shape, the pump will get very little exercise. Given the effects of ethanol, this is something to be avoided. If a secondary pump has been pickling for some time, it can fail within a few miles of being pressed into service after the primary has failed.
On my own car, I added a small control box a few weeks ago to be able to balance the fuel pump usage. This was posted in the X308 section at the time. It is two SPDT toggle switches potted with epoxy in a used tic-tac box attached to the fusebox with double sided tape. The taps were made in the trunk harness close to the entry to the fusebox.
The switches control the primary circuits on the two fuel pump relays and allow selection of the fuel pump to be controlled by each relay. This way, the roles of the pumps can be reversed to even out usage patterns, or both pumps can be forced to either relay. This modification has to be top quality because if it is not reliable, a failure can strand the car just as easily as failed pump.
Once the system is in place, it is probably sufficient to do a role reversal at perhaps each change in the four seasons. Make the change with the ignition off so that the ECM does not see a "missing" relay during the change. If the jumper cable described above is also in the trunk, it would only take a couple of more minutes to verify that both pumps are still spinning.
.
#37
05-10-2020, 10:55 AM
#38
06-19-2020, 09:33 PM
Veteran Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: on the road in NE Oklahoma
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On my 2002 XKR:
When I removed the relay for the #1 (primary) pump the XKR started up right away, making me think the #2 (secondary) pump had been working solo all along. But the car still ran fine with the #1 relay re-installed and then the #2 pump relay removed.
By the way, the “restricted performance” warning light came on when the #1 pump relay was removed, but not vice versa.
Has anyone else seen that occurrence ???
Z
When I removed the relay for the #1 (primary) pump the XKR started up right away, making me think the #2 (secondary) pump had been working solo all along. But the car still ran fine with the #1 relay re-installed and then the #2 pump relay removed.
By the way, the “restricted performance” warning light came on when the #1 pump relay was removed, but not vice versa.
Has anyone else seen that occurrence ???
Z
#39
04-08-2023, 01:07 PM
Engine starts perfectly but stops/stalls a few seconds later
First of all this forum has been a life saver and I hope for a little more help. This previous post by @zray made me try and resolve a pending bill of £1,000+ to have us all recovered home and it was like magic (to me at any rate).
My late 2002 XKR 4.0 stalled (middle lane of motorway in stationary traffic) and would then restart and die a second or two later. On one occasion I got just enough of a limp to reverse on to the hard shoulder and then taken off to safe location where Recovery person suggested I and family needed to be recovered some 250 miles home as there were no error codes other than misfiring, which could clearly be heard. One one occasion the Jag roared into life for 10 seconds but spluttered and then stopped. It was then, after reading this info, I pulled the relay for Pump 1 (Primary) and the car started and ran normally. I put the relay back and the issue came back. Right now I have driver 250 miles with relay 1 removed and all seems normal. I guess I could happily drive like this permanently and be no worse off than being akin to an XK8, in that both only have one pump!
From what I have read I "think" by removing the relay I have forced the XKR to use pump 2 all the time. I assumed pump 2 is good as this is what starts the car in the first place.
I was just wondering if this is now clear that I have a bad primary pump, or might there be other things I should look at before getting the tank out and both pumps replaced. (As it will be a garage doing the work I assume they'd not favour the in through the top/parcel shelf, cutting a hole, route assuming this is my next step.)
Appreciate any words of wisdom.
I also read this great thread as https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...s-dies-165266/
My late 2002 XKR 4.0 stalled (middle lane of motorway in stationary traffic) and would then restart and die a second or two later. On one occasion I got just enough of a limp to reverse on to the hard shoulder and then taken off to safe location where Recovery person suggested I and family needed to be recovered some 250 miles home as there were no error codes other than misfiring, which could clearly be heard. One one occasion the Jag roared into life for 10 seconds but spluttered and then stopped. It was then, after reading this info, I pulled the relay for Pump 1 (Primary) and the car started and ran normally. I put the relay back and the issue came back. Right now I have driver 250 miles with relay 1 removed and all seems normal. I guess I could happily drive like this permanently and be no worse off than being akin to an XK8, in that both only have one pump!
From what I have read I "think" by removing the relay I have forced the XKR to use pump 2 all the time. I assumed pump 2 is good as this is what starts the car in the first place.
I was just wondering if this is now clear that I have a bad primary pump, or might there be other things I should look at before getting the tank out and both pumps replaced. (As it will be a garage doing the work I assume they'd not favour the in through the top/parcel shelf, cutting a hole, route assuming this is my next step.)
Appreciate any words of wisdom.
I also read this great thread as https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...s-dies-165266/
#40
04-09-2023, 02:46 AM
I was just wondering if this is now clear that I have a bad primary pump, or might there be other things I should look at before getting the tank out and both pumps replaced. (As it will be a garage doing the work I assume they'd not favour the in through the top/parcel shelf, cutting a hole, route assuming this is my next step.)
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...82/#post632874
That might give you some more information, but personally I think at this point I would just be changing both pumps as at 21 years old, they are probably due for a change anyway, working or not.
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AngusJam (04-09-2023)