Hi Steve,
I think pin#10 on the BPM is an output,rather than data in. At least that is what shows on my schematic for 2002. I will update if I have any luck. And Gus, I am not saying that you are not right about restoring the car to original. But I would like to decipher this error code in any case. It may just help someone down the line who wants to move to a manual operation.
Ah, back into the fray.....

 

When I first looked at this several years ago, the knee jerk reaction was to rig a way to make the latch operate manually. I quickly learned that the controller is highly sequential and moves from state to state in the prescribed sequence. If the sequence is disrupted the control stops and is a bugger to get resynced.

The only way I could see to overcome this issue (in an effort to make the latch manual) was to replace the control in part or as a whole. The main complication is the communication link that is not documented and would require some serious hours to reverse engineer. Based on this I went with the pressure relief valve as it was dead simple and a practical DIY solution. This was not the first choice but it was the first practical choice.

Since those days I have thought about replacing the roof hydraulics with a linear actuator that has the same throw as the hydraulic cylinder. This would be all electric and could live with the existing controller. Replacement and repair could be done through the cover plate once the hoses were removed and replaced by some wiring. The only question would be whether this would generate enough force but I never got to that point with the idea. Mechanical gain on a linear actuator is defined by the combo of the motor torque and the tread pitch so presumably a happy combination could be found.

Regarding the quarter windows, on my car (MY2000) if you quick press the roof button the windows will operate independently. This is documented in the Owner's Manual. I have never seen the need to rig separate manual operation.

 

Can you raise your rear windows with the top down?
This is what most people want and it is not a standard function, it is only possible to open and close the rear windows with the top up.

 

Linear actuators, sadly, don't generate anywhere near the force of an hydraulic ram in terms of space occupied.
Lanny - I've got your BPM diagram and Pin 10 is close, pin 63 open, both pulled to ground to signal.
If you think it's an output don't ground it but this is what I have for your MY

 

I have never seen a compelling reason to have the rear windows up with the top down. I guess if there were passengers in the rear seat this might be appealing but how often does that happen? While being able to raise the windows with the top down might be slick, I see no real reason to do so beyond saying I was able to do it.

Doug

 

Well guys, I sort of feel like I let you down. I was determined that I could outsmart that darn BPM. My background includes working for Atari" back in the day". As you might imagine the logic circuits in the early video games make this exercise feel like child,s play. But you might be wrong. As Walt says, a lot of what is going on is not documented. I really don't know exactly what the BPM is looking for.
In an attempt to fool it today I reconnected the inputs to the BPM ,even though it was not in fact controlling the lift system. It beeped and seemed to be going through the sequence. I tried my best to emulate the action of the top latch. I tried this both on the up cycle and the down cycle. The BPM was not fooled. It insists the top is not latched.
I called a friend who is an expert in computer controlled things, including a BMW that he currently drives. After listening to my description of the circuit and what I have done ,he is of the opinion that the BPM has a memory that will not let go of this fault until it is reset. I am not sure that I agree with this, because after a hard reset it forgets certain other faults,like "trac not available" and" ASC not available". So why would it insist on remembering the darn top was not latched?
In any case, my current opinion is that if you try to convert the top to "manual operation", meaning taking the BPM out of the system, you will most likely have to live with the error message.
Moving on for now.........

 

From where I sit, you made one hell of a run at it. Absent pure luck, I don't think a solution was possible without documentation which, as you said, we just do not have. BTW, I share your skepticism on your friend's idea.

Good news is ... you've brought some clarity to this idea of converting to manual latch operation that's been floating around for quite a while. We know for sure now the problem is not a static one; the BPM is fussier than that, and wants to see certain states and events in some set order. So any manual latch conversion, if it's to avoid spurious messages, will have to accommodate that.

This points to having the BPM run the show during raise/lower top, and fooling it into thinking it's doing so as we manually operate the latch. I have an idea for some simulations to see if this works, but won't get to go at it for a couple of weeks. Maybe somebody else will get there first.

Anyway, nice work on your part.

 

I gave the idea of manual control some thought and I am sort of confident it could be done. It would require putting a small controller that intercepts the top latch switch signals and replaces the same signals to the roof controller (RC) with faked out versions that simulate the sequence and timing that the RC is expecting.

In order to make this work, the latch faker would need to monitor some other signals so it knows what the roof controller is trying to do. I think all the necessary sequence info could be gathered from the motor power (and polarity) plus the state of the solenoid signals.

I would be happy to help out on this as I have the capability to create low cost prototype circuit boards with a microprocessor to process the signals and control the timing. It would take someone who has the time to sort out the signals that are needed to make it work.

 

Hi Walt,
I am retired from the printed circuit board world. I still have privileges at my old business. If you get to the point where you need a PCB I am your man. As many as you want for free!
Of course, I will make an extra one for myself.

 

I agree with Dennis - you gave it your best.
I still don't understand why opening the top doesn't clear the message.
There are effectively only 4 switches involved in the whole process.
Three go into the BPM but, for some reason, the 'Top Down' ram limit switch goes directly into the SLCM.
As Walt says it would be simple to monitor pump polarity.
I know for sure the pump runs in the 'top latch' direction when the switch is set to 'Top Open' then reverses when the 'Convertible top closed' switch opens but have no idea if the other latch switches are monitored during the 'open' process.
An interesting little challenge.

 

The operation of the roof is monitored by modules and switches. At any given time you could open your roof hydraulically and properly close it manually and it will show the roof latch closed if all switches and modules are satisfied. If a module was not satisfied because of an open switch either one of the modules will see it as a fault and at that time the system could be confused and indicates it as such. The best way to tackle this is to clear the fault and that may mean putting it back to factory specs and go from there.

 

Gus, when my hoses go I won't be replacing them (I'm certainly not the only one) so I've got a vested interest in giving the BPM a right good spoofing.
If between us we can't toggle four switches in the right order to fool something with only slightly more intellect than an electric can opener I'd be more than a bit disappointed !
I don't suppose anyone knows the CAN-Bus-speak used between the BPM and SLCM ?

 

What you said.

I'm traveling for a week or so, but I have an idea to try when back home. I'll report on it whether it works or whether it flops.

 

Dennis,
Just remember that any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
Practice this
Colors of the Pentacle
and park your Jaguar in the middle.
Be sure to follow the detailed instructions
To perform magic that cleanses or banishes things away, you would draw the pentacle starting at the top point, and going down to the lower right, then the upper left, cross to the upper right, and then the lower left and back up
- I presume this refers to exorcising the 'Top not Latched' demon.

 

I'm also very interested in converting to a manual open-and-close operation when my wife's 2006 XK8 decides to give her the green shower. I'll be following this thread very closely....

 

If we manage to crack the BPM I'll post this in the How-To section.

 

I am confident that a manual operation can be done but I am unable to dedicate the time to doing this right now. For now I will pass but will follow the post. Between the new house, the condo flooding (Storm Sandy) and car repairs extra time is not available.

 

Gus,
Don't worry - we'll do our best.
Sorry to hear about your flooding.

 

Hang in there, Gus. Things will get better....

I'm about to start a driveway expansion project that my wife has been pushing me hard for during the past couple of years. Finally lost that battle over the Christmas holidays, and I'm not looking forward to the work, the mess, or the expense. A dozen or more trees must come down, their stumps must be dug up, the front sidewalk must be jackhammered and removed, the new driveway route must be graded, embedded with crushed stone, formed, and finally the new concrete must be poured and the new decorative pavers must be laid. I'm contracting most of the work out to professionals, but I still have quite a bit of pre-project and post-project work to do. Sure glad it's wintertime - much easier to work when temps are in the 30s and 40s vs. pushing 100 in the summertime. Enough forum surfing for today - I better get outside and get busy....

I sure wish HGTV would go off the air. My life would be much simpler and cheaper....

 

I am with you on HGTV! Many times I wanted to activate the parental control and block the dam thing but the repercussions are far worse than HGTV and a few projects.

My repairs would not be so bad if I had not renovated less than a year ago replaced all inside & entry doors, walls, windows cabinets and furniture. All in the trash! I do feel lucky that our damage was far less than NJ & NY.

Well like you said Back To Work!