would like to add to your excellent post that in many cases the variable for oil caused problems regardless of the product used is the type of service. Many people are in severe service without realizing it. Even our XK8 manuals cut both variables of mileage and time in half for what could represent most town and urban driving in America. Most people do not realize that from an engineering standpoint constant high speed mileage is roughly 10 percent of wear and depletion of things like oil as compared to urban driving for a variety of reasons. One of the reasons that i use a higher end European synthetic formula is to make up for the fact that this is a lot of my service. So, i am wasting about forty USD, however it allows me to go the full year, kind of a break even. Note that a lot of oils that meet this standard like Mobil 1 European formula 0w-40 are quite inexpensive.

Note too that in some cases, not necessarily with these cars, manufacturers including in Europe pushed the service intervals too far for some models for marketing purposes.

European high SAPS (these are wear preventives overall) oils are exceptionally good for our cars. Mobil 1 European formula, Castrol Syntec of the same type and even things like Amsoil FS (high SAPS formula) also fall into this group. These oils are contra indicated for certain emissions systems by specific reference. The funny thing is that they benefit a lot of even modern gasoline cars if the proper viscosity is available.

Our engines being lower performance than other European models are not as critical, however a high SAPS oil would be commonly used in their UK and European services as there is just no reason not. This is not too different than the ZDDP protecting older engines, but contra indicated for ours with the design of the catalysts.

A big problem when cars are brought over to the USA is that manufacturers often try to work within our system of available products, and a few things come into play. One, our standards for oil are a least common denominator. Then there are service and dealer expectations. And, finally economy and efficiency games.

Here is an example. Good friend has a MBenz C300, about 2012, owned since new and never abused, 73K USA miles. It is an almost daily commuter easily the majority highway miles for forty minutes each way at good cruising speed. Engine always fully warms on his way to the highway. The owner changes the oil before every winter himself using a factory filter and the Mobil 1 European Oil specified for the car in both its service manual, by the dealer recommendation and by Mobil 1 itself. This oil also has the high SAPS required for the vehicle. Two years ago he started feeling lower power and a slight rod knock. I opened the engine up after doing some testing. One word, sludge. Three cylinders not at full compression. This is a low mileage car with great service and ownership. Now, flushing the engine with detergents and changing the oil three times a year somewhat fixed the compression, gummed rings will do that. The rod knock is going to just be there as the damage is done. I am seeing quite a few of these cars like this. The ones where people used the Mobil 1 of proper viscosity but not European formula are even worse.

No, this is not a bad manufacturer, actually the car is rather nice, however, there is no other explanation than the oil change interval is too long for this particular design. The canary in the coal mine tells us something. Some things are pushing the envelop for even the stronger and better designed. More importantly, one should get to know his particular example much better.

As an aside a particular manufacturer that i study is scamming with the viscosity that it uses. This does not mean that it is a problem for others who use a particular light oil in theirs, just this one in particular. So, some research told me that there is an alternative way to mitigate the problem which has cost many a lot of trouble service life that the brand used to be known for. A key technician for the brand did a lot of research as to what they were using in other first world countries of similar climate.

So, if someone is having good results, figure out what are his exact parameters and why it is working out so well. And remember something that i am old enough to have experienced. When motor oils started improving massively, including introducing very good synthetics, a lot of older cars even with the same exact viscosity being used were destroying hard engine parts. New and better oils left them behind, in this case the zinc among other things.

History might be repeating itself and could be the difference between a 500K engine and a 200K engine failure. Now mix in various agendas.

An extra oil change each year, and/or somewhat more expensive oil and making sure that it has the right additives in it might be the cheapest insurance ever.

 

Again,well said. I forgot to say that i use 1 bottle of liquimoly at each oil change. Only additive i use. Trust it implicitly. I have a 2000 chevy 2500 hd 4x4. I bought it with 125.000 in 2008. Now has 262,000. Been through all driving scearios including heavy towing. Liquimoly from first oil change. I had to replace the pan gasket last year so i got a good look inside. Factory cylinder cross hatch easily seen. Pull a rod cap off and lower looked new while upper had just a bit of wear. Pan had a little sludge in bottom, but mostly everything i could see was very clean

 

My Maserati, VW TDI and motorcycles get more specialized oils for their needs but mostly focus on the spec recommendation of the OEM; which those oils I mentioned in the Jags fulfill Jaguar's requirements for specs. Ferrari recommends the European Formula 0W40 and 5W40 depending on temperature ranges; and the Maserati gets the Maserati oil filter and Pennzoil Platinum OEM option for that; which is about $45 per 6 quarts and it needs 9; so an oil change with filter(2x filters at $35 each and 3x6qts is 135$) is $100-110. The VW gets the Castrol LL that VW recommends and thats $30 plus an $8 filter. Both are on the 3-5k change interval; basically I start waiting for a time that's convenient for me after 3k and if I don't get a convenient time before 5k, I MAKE the time by then.

It's crazy how much sales and marketing has to do with parts/fluid/filter change intervals; being able to advertise a XYZ 5 year total cost of ownership and such matters despite that year 6 or whatever involves a transmission rebuild. That's why lifetime fluids are a thing; they exist only in the devoid spots where a marketing person's soul would exit, but not in reality. Hence why ZF and other suppliers have published their own stuff about fluid changes in stuff like the ZF 6HP26 unit in the X100 and X150.

Another thing I wonder is how long an oil filter is functioning at what I consider acceptable filtration levels with these crazy intervals. I know the tech has gotten better; but I haven't put in the research to know how much and would rather just spend the extra little bit changing the oil and filter more frequently as you have said. I bet I spend $400 a year to change the oil on my vehicles with good fluids and filters at short intervals; my dad has never had an oil starved engine due to sludge and he's 67 and owned over 100 motorcycles and probably 50+ cars; and if I have the same success rate, I guess by the time I'm his age I'll have spent maybe $20k-30k. Say I cut that in half, but had even one or two catastrophic failures on non-exotic cars and I'm out any savings and Im out the time.

 

^^^^^^^ +1

These words are worth paying close attention to. To think otherwise is being penny wise and dollar foolish. Clean oil and new air and oil filters are the key to engine longevity. I’ve yet to regret changing oil and filters before I was “supposed “ to. If using a quality European spec synthetic oil costs a few dollars more than budget oils, I’ll gladly spend the money. Skimping on oil is too risky for me.

Z

 

I don't like the sound of that!
I want my oil to carry any contaminants with it and have them removed by the oil filter, surely that is the reason for fitting one and how the system is designed to work ?
If the oil is not carrying the dirt it must be settling in the sump etc. sounds a very bad idea to me.

 

Strangely here in the UK if you place any XK8 or XKR version in the Mobil oil "Find the right motor oil” checker it says that "No data is available" and does not give any recommendation

 

not to worry. The post you quote is a blatant case of misinformation, aka, patently false. Remember, this is the internet where one doesn’t need a PhD to be a rocket scientist.



Z

 

I have an 2004 XKR I purchased 3 years ago. It
now has 94k miles. I use Castrol Magnatec 5W-30. I set my oil changes to every 5,000 miles or one year. I have only been averaging 3,000 miles a year.

 

Hi old matelots

I am also in San Antone, I use FIS Fuel Injection Services and Jonny and Darren at the D+M Service centre, both very trustworthy and reasonably priced! My XK8 has an LS conversion and 460E gearbox but Jonny has done all my servicing and repairs.
Tracey owns FIS on 2106540774 and Jonny on 2106593851 Tell them The Brit with the lumped Jag convertible sent you and says hi! I can thoroughly recommend both.

Garry Vardon-Smith

 

I use Costco brand 10w30 full synthetic in all my cars.

 

Do the European spec oils say that on the label? Does it say "European spec"?
Which oils are ES?
Are they readily available?

 

Wal-Mart has it:



this is generally what the 5 qt jug looks like,
although they are continually changing the packaging, but not the formula, as far as I can tell.

Z

PS. I don’t know if it’s available in other viscosities, this is the weight that I buy

 

these oils as as easy to find as water, and just as inexpensive. They are clearly labeled. Mobil 1 European Formula and Castrol Edge European Formula which i use a lot are very inexpensive and easy to find. The 0w-40 is the most common variety. If you want to use a 5w-30, Castrol 03037 Edge 5w-30 A3/B4. It must be a Black bottle. Note that the Amsoil Product in the 0 and 5w -30 European Formulas are medium to low SAPS (just like the wear preventers like ZDDP) described above, and for their much higher cost it makes no sense to give up this insurance. Did a little research and if one wants an Amsoil product with the wear preventers at high levels in a 5w-30 for any car with a simple normal catalyst system (no diesel DPF) go with their series 3000 heavy duty diesel oil 5w-30. We use this in 90s and early 2000s Hondas that call for 5w-30 and it noticeably protects their cams with no emissions equipment issues. Remember that it exceeds the API required for these cars while not reducing things which are needed in terms of solids as wear preventers. And it is very cost effective, downright cheap for a very good oil.

Note that 0w-40 in general is essentially the old 5w-30 with better startup flow in terms of performance and wear protection by oil film strength. Thus, it is never too "thick" for even a very new 5w-30 car as all of these cars in Europe would be run on 0w-40. One is not putting something the equivalent of glue into the case as opposed to 5w-30. In fact, when some friends are going to push their even stock Hondas they go to 0w-40 for a little extra high oil temp protection. Remember the very important point that i am making in this thread is that certain, definitely not all of course, improvements in oil harm certain and perhaps all cars by removing wear preventers for the very few vehicles where they will poison specific emissions control equipment. It is the problem with the sixties cars and less ZDDP all over again. It is very cheap to get oils that have these things. And one does not make up for it and perhaps does harm by going crazy thick with oil under most conditions and by dumping thickening products into the case fill for this purpose.

Now someone brought up synthetics carrying contaminants into the filter better or holding things in solutions, whatever. Detergents serve only one purpose which is to bind to the organic contaminants and settle them out of the lubricant. This is why i am somewhat suspect of high mileage oils and oil analysis. Is it possible to test the detergent package? Do they do this? Not currently. Thus, everything might be good in terms of other variables, however these might only be indirect indicators of the state of the detergent package. At the low price of the products above, perhaps one extra oil change negates any issue. It is known that on highway mileage, there is less damage to the detergent package. this is why the high mileage oil might work well for those very special cases where someone uses a product for 25K US Miles and gets close to a million of said on an engine. I have it on direct information that the industry here in the USA had as one of the reasons for transitioning to lighter oil which would be consumed more that topping off would renew the detergent package until the next change out. They just did not tell the owners. Face it, any one of us who experienced cars of the 90s, early 2000s and the usually very high quality Japanese of the 80s became accustomed to never needing to check the oil level between changes because it never seems to drop even just before the actual change. Once again we went back to the reality of an earlier time without anyone telling us. Once again, history repeating itself. Now it makes much more sense why high quality cars such as BMW added electronic oil level monitoring. They wanted the operator to be alerted before an oil starvation issue.

Would like to add something regarding special oils, things like Royal Purple. These are sometimes very good products. The reason that one must be cautious is that they could be intended for a specific situation at the expense of regular usage. My racing friends have sworn by RP for years. They have very good results. in my speculation here, it could be that the oil might be designed for a particular use and be lacking in things for common driving even with a performance angle. Is it an oil lower in detergents because it is intended to be changed out after a limited amount of track days? There is nothing wrong with this question, and no i have no reasons to bother to find out. Look at the excellent results that Zray gets and his lifetime knowledge of same with a common retail product.

A person asked about filter performance. Some rather good Japanese brands about fifteen years ago actually stated in their owner manuals that the filter was to be replaced every other oil change at the same time the filter size was reduced. I own a 2008 specified this way. For the few dollars of extra cost, even at their dealerships they always change the filter. Years ago my father and i made an oil filter test rig for ascertaining flow on filters new and various states of used. I still have it. With the exception of one from a severely sludged engine, none ever restricted flow in any critical way before the bypass released. They actually flow a little better after being in use for a time. Visual inspection of the filter media showed that there was no obvious deterioration allowing for easy flow. Note that above specific oil pressure with a rather low threshold most filters fully bypass. It is at lower RPM and idle that the oil is "cleaned" by the filter. Indirectly this is one reason why gearing of the drive train matters in terms of longevity. Once an engine's oil is hot and it is cruising below a certain RPM (which can be quite high depending upon the oil and its operating temp), the oil flows almost constantly through the filter. The oil filter internal bypass is in terms of design in parallel to the high pressure bypass of the oil pump itself which will not send oil above a certain pressure to the filter adapter regardless of how much it is spin by engine RPM. For those following this argument, it also means that if one thinks that insanely high viscosity does any good, all one is achieving is lower flow since the thicker oil will hit the bypass limit of the pump at lower volume than thinner oil. Within reason, higher volume protects and cools better.

It is all a matter of balance. Hope that people get that the takeaway is that classics and even modern cars can be protected even better with some very cost effective materials and a little investigation. An expensive product or particular brand is the easy solution which might not do anything or perhaps damage. And, unfortunately games and other variables by industry and regulatory agencies and just plain incompetence sometimes means that the end user must question the manufacturer's recommendations.

Remember that if someone or you have something that has worked well for a very long time under the same conditions, apply it or keep doing it. In an urban setting my family with low cost gets very high mileage out of engines with reasonable maintenance costs. And, many times it involved questioning a few things that were "in the manual," you know like "lifetime" trans fluid or 100k mile coolant. Yea, right. Most people when they challenge me i ask if they keep cars as long and as high mileage as my family. If no, mostly i dismiss their opinions. In this car hobby and the world of advanced automotive frugality, many are now preserving cars as much as using them, directly entering the world of preservation usage where my style exists. Preservation usage also involves that inevitable wear can be less severe and not ruinous. This means as i have mentioned here before that sometimes i open up an engine with very high mileage and all it needs is a weekend cylinder honing and ring replacement and maybe valve work as it is apart anyway.

And special thanks to Zray, i love the Fumoto drain valve. Why didn't i discover this sooner. Did an on trip oil change in the middle of nowhere with a pump rig that i built. Not a drop on the ground, nor even hands got dirty. Just wow, thanks.

 

You’re welcome, I too discovered it here on the forum. What a great product !

for what it’s worth, the Blackstone Lab’s oil analysis will include the percentage of the additive package (aka : detergents ??) left in your oil at the time you sent them a sample. It does cost a few $$ more than their basic analysis. They use that % number to advise you if you are changing the oil too soon, or not.

I have been changing the oil between 4,000 and 5,000 miles between changing, and generally have a little more than 50% of the additive package left according to the Blackstone reports.


Z