Hi, I have a 1999 XK8 in mint and perfect condition with low mileage. I am the only driver.

Yesterday, my husband put air in the spare tire. This morning I went to start the car, and it makes the sound like it wants to start, but won't start. The battery is about 5 yrs old.

Is there ANYTHING that could have been pushed out of place, when my husband returned the trunk cover which covers the tire, battery, etc?

ANY suggestions would be appreciated. I've never had a problem with the car, and it was perfect before my husband removed that back cover to put air in the spare tire.

Thanks for any help.

 

XK8, odds are, you have a fuel line issue. I say this because you don't mention any engine work being done recently (so the timing should be intact barring a major failure that just happened to occur at the same time, highly unlikely). Because the engine is turning over, I know the electronics are working (needs a signal from the key, via the computer to send a signal to the start to engage). So, that only leaves the fuel and air. Work was only done in the rear of the car, so, air also shouldn't be an issue.

Would your husband happen to have a fuel pressure gauge handy? That would help me confirm that it is a fuel issue. The go/no go check would be if after cranking the car for about 20 seconds if you can smell fuel coming out the rear of the car. Granted, with the newer cars, they need a specific pressure, so, that would just be telling me that the jeul pump is atleast pumping something.

Also, what motor is in the car? That alters what fuses are used in the car for the fuel system. The fuses in question are in the trunk area, so, if you have the owner's manual, you can check the fuses yourself. It may be possible while putting in the tire, the fuse box got bumped and it was enough to cause the fuse not to play any more. Fuses do wear out over time believe it or not. So, it may be advantageous just to replace the fuses for the fuel pump and see if that corrects anything. You also have a relay (or two, based on the motor that you have) that can also be a source of your problem. It also is located in the trunk fuse box.

 

THANKS for getting back to me quick Thermo I appreciate it. I'll have to go and check all the things you mentioned, and I'll get back to you. Thanks again. I really appreciate your help.

 

Did your husband start the car for a brief period, maybe move then shut the engine off when he filled the tire? If so, this 1999 MY is likely a nikasil engine and you've caused a very classic condition to exist called cylinder wash. The 1997 to 1999s had a serious problem with this exacerbated by fact that the cold start fuel cell algorithm was programmed overly rich.

First, you have to make sure that the battery is charged up so it doesn't die in this process. Next, try to start the car with the accelerator pedal held to the floor. Do short 20/30 second tries, letting the starter rest 30 seconds in between and continuing to hold the pedal to the floor.

Holding the accelerator fully opened shuts off the fuel delivery so you don't continue to wash oil from the cylinders which destroys compression.
It should eventually start (maybe 4/5 tries). This is a factory approved method for cylinder wash, a well known and documented condition.

 

I cant believe that - could make sense. Is this known for the XJ8s 2001 too?

Problem is: we bought one in mint condition a year ago - and it run like a cat should. Best decision on cars up to now. (We knew, one day I would have to start working on it ...)

After I backed on the parkingplace to give room for the working - it wont start. Some whining, and the check on the belt showed the engine should be turning(cranking). On the first try I smelled gas on the exhaust, then the next day I tried a second time for 20sec, it seems no smell anymore. (Of course the battery is kept charged).

I am somewhat reluctant to stress the starter with an extended operation, but before going into details of troubleshooting it would indeed make sense according to the symptoms of the sudden failure to try this - provided, it is a possible cause for the XJ8/2001?

 

Tums, if you pull off the intake hose to the throttlebody and squirt just a little bit of starting fluid into the intake and then try, if the motor starts, then that can confirm a fuel issue. If still no firing, then you have a spark issue.

If you need me to take it beyond that, let me know.

 

Hey everyone, I have a 1989 Vanden Plas with the same problem. Would this solution apply to older Jags as well?? By the way, I replaced the fuel pump, fuel filter and plugs on mine. Still turns over but won't start.

 

Jagman, yes, this will work on your car too. First try the key to the RUN position for 5 seconds and then attempt to start the car. You may also be able to hear the fuel pump run during this time. Worst case, with the aide of someone else, have your ear near the fuel pump to see if you can hear it. If not, let us know and I am sure someone can help you from that point.

 

Thermo,
thanks for the reply. Thanks god I am just finished with an overhaul on our 96 Windstar, so the cat needs not to be "kicked" to live.

After looking at all the smoke http://www.gusglikas.com/AutoRepairNoStart.htm I am more than reluctant to use this procedure - especially as it should not please the catalysator, which will be checked right after this (inspection due ).

I found the following procedure: foot down on the pedal (= fuel off) for 4 x 30 sec cranking, than let the pedal come back a third or so and try normal starting. That resulted in a few accelerated cranking turns on the brink of sputter. Unfortunatly the battery went down this time.

From my old Guzzi (80's, nicosil and steel) I learned, that starting problems means something wrong along the way. Considering this I should first install new sparkplugs and at that time crank the engine to blow out surplus fuel, if still there. If that does not work I should follow your advise with starting fluid. Only in the end I will use oil - if nothing else helps.

Brings me to another question: I got the JITIS CD, but cant find any relevant information about how to even change sparkplugs (compared to Fords 2" telphonebook for the Windstar, that covers ech micro step) - with all the plastic on top I am relutant to touch anything in the cat without instructions - not to break any fastener.
I searched the forum, and that is great, thanks a lot SuperSport1966 downloaded the JITIS to see, if my CD may be spoiled, I'll check this. Did I miss on a thread with information where and what should be reasonabel workshop-manuals (resp. CDs) and what not?

 

Good news (for me):

the cat is on the road again. It was simply flooded. Maybe I do a new thread "sharing my experience", got to run ...

 

I fully expected flooding which is what causes the cylinder wash on AJ26s and why I provided this same procedure back on Oct 03rd. XK8 has not posted back yet, but I expect that will be the problem with her AJ26 too.

There are two processes used to revive an AJ26 from cylinder wash, one factory approved and one developed by the shade tree mechanics. The proper way is to hold the gas pedal to the floor which shuts off the fuel, then cranking in small increments until cylinders dry out and compression is restored and the engine will eventually fire. The improper way involves removing the spark plugs, adding oil to each cylinder reinstalling the plugs then hoping for a start, but this method can have detrimental effects on the cats from the unburned oil pushed into the cats.

AJ26s had a poorly programmed cold start fuel cell algorithm when under certain conditions, would overflood the cylinders with too much fuel. This caused the oil to be washed off the cylinder walls and caused a temporary loss of compression. Without the oil coating the engine would not start, but fuel would continue to be injected into cylinders making the situation worse. Jaguar never fixed the problem in the AJ26s, but by the time the AJ27 came out the ECM had a corrected cold start program. Cylinder wash occurs when the AJ26 is cold started then shut off before the engine warms up.

Any time an AJ26 cranks but doesn't start, this is the first and easiest process to perform. It will save a lot of wasted time chasing fuel or ignition problems that very seldom are the cause. In my shop I see this condition several times a year - customer calls which I describe the restart procedure over the phone.

Glad you're running again - what about XK8?

 

Thanks Steve, it was the first time I had trouble with the car - and who would exspect flooding with all that electronic nowadays? Unfortunatly the inspection failed, the lambda of the left bank (whatever that meant) was something in and out of tolerance, I hope, that this may be due to the fallback of the engine-programming during the start attempts, lets be optimistic.
Anyway, as others may experience similar problems I opened a thread describing the situation.

 

O2 sensors will fail. They usually start going out of tolerance (range) intermittently first. They usually show up first as an erratic fuel trim reading on one bank, either a wild + LTFT or - LTFT. Once a threshold is crossed, the ECM can no longer correct LTFT and a CEL is set. If yours did not set a CEL, it probably wasn't closing loop which will show up as an open loop on an emissions test.

The flooding of the AJ26, or cylinder wash is more a matter of practical experience the AJv8. First time, every tech ends up chasing lots of common symptoms which are dead ends. Interestingly, Jaguar never really addressed the faulty ECM cold start cell. They often do not "re-engineer" known faults as a matter of cost efficiency and idiosyncratic with a low volume manufacturer; instead, opting for warranty parts replacements over and over again, or TSB "fix" instructions.

I believe there was an old TSB issued on the "proper" method to revive an AJ26 after cylinder wash with instructions to inform the customer not to start the engine cold, then immediately shut if off w/o warming it up first, but I don't have it. The problem was corrected on the AJ27 issue (actually MY2000 OBD, ECM program reissue).

 

Thermo, I have tried what you suggest and yes I can hear the fuel pump activate. It seems that gas is not getting to the engine somehow. Car will turn over with aid of starting fluid but dies almost immediately.

 

steve, I quoted your AJ26 cylinder wash text to the XK8 FAQ thread, it was very well written and explained that I had to have it...figuratively, of course.

 

Steve,

I think we have been down this road before. Adding oil to the cylinders has to date not presented a problem with the 02 or I should say to date I have not seen or heard of it. Now both processes are the same thing, however, one process enables the compression and lubrication at the onset of the starting process the other is allowing the dry piston ring to swipe the cylinder walls causing un-necessary wear to the cylinder and the piston rings. If I look at this in perspective an o2 sensor (if it needs replacing) is by far less cost to replace than an engine. Sorry but I disagree with your theory.

 

I had a similar problem in my x-type a while ago, got in hit the key one sputter then cranking with no sign of life. Opened hood, shut hood ,got back in it fired right up and hasn't done it since. Talked to a mechanic, he said it's not uncommon and next time TAP on the fuel tank, try it again and if it fires up it could be a CONNECTION in the fuel pump (worn brushes in the pump motor will hang up). Mine has 117K on it so it's possible.Week later brother-in law had same thing on his Dodge Magnum, they towed it , when they set it down, bingo it started and hasn't done it since. He's got 135K on his.The K is thousands not kelo's for the Brits..If it saves a tow it's worth it.

 

Gus,

You're not understanding the issue correctly. It has nothing to do with the O2 sensors. The problem with gross amounts of unburned oil entering into the the exhaust stream can (and will) coat and permantly foul the platinum honeycomb in the catalytic converter. Once the honeycomb is coated with any foreign contaminant such as partially burned and unburned oil, the cleaning efficiency of the cat is reduced and begins a rapid degradation. Although it wouldn't be expected that the cat will have a heart attack, a more rapid decline and eventual failure is more expected.

The factory provided specific instructions for restarting an engine with cylinder wash and it did not include adding oil to the cylinders primarily because of the potential to add gross amounts of oil (as I've read many DIYers do) and the detrimental impact to the catalytic converters. I've read, over and over, where DIYers have tried this alternative and all have described the significant blue smoke cloud that follows the attempted start, then sometimes repeating this process over and over, not getting a positive response the first times. These converters are over $1,000 each with two needed in an AJV8.

Although any time an engine is started from cold, the first few seconds constitute the most wear on cylinder walls and rings, in the grander scheme of things, this wear, even following the factory procedure, is miniscule compared to the alternative and subsequent possible reduced efficiency or total destruction of the catalytic converters.

There is a term for the catalytic converter contamination called Catalyst poisoning. You can research the term and learn more about the ill effects from oil contamination. I've also added a simple excerpt below, FYI.


Catalyst poisoning
Catalytic converters become ineffective in the presence of lead due to catalyst poisoning, and the introduction of catalytic converters triggered the end of leaded gasoline. Catalyst poisoning occurs when a substance in the engine exhaust coats the surface of the catalyst, preventing further exhaust access to the catalytic materials. Poisoning can sometimes be reversed by running the engine under a very heavy load for an extended period of time to raise exhaust gas temperature, which may cause liquefaction or sublimation of the catalyst poison. Common catalyst poisons are lead, sulfur, zinc, manganese, silicone, and phosphorus; Zn, P, and S originate from lubricant antiwear additives such as ZDDP; sulfur and manganese primarily originate from fuel impurities or additives, respectively. Silicone poisoning is usually the result of engine damage, such as a faulty cylinder head gasket or cracked casting, admitting silicate-containing coolant into the combustion chamber. Removal of sulfur from a catalyst surface by running heated exhaust gasses over the catalyst surface is often successful, however removal of lead deposits is often not possible (the lead becomes vapourised in the combustion chamber of a gasoline 4 stroke engine under the ambient temperature and pressure after charge air ignition, and condenses on the cooler catalytic converter core surface. In particularly bad cases of catalyst poisoning by Lead the converter can actually become completely plugged with lead residue). Theoretically, catalyst poisoning could also occur if the charge air was contaminated by a catalyst poison, however catalyst poisons are all substances that are solid at the internal temperature of the catalytic converter, and thus precipitate out of the air.
Any condition that increases the concentration of CO or HC reaching the catalyst can cause it to overheat and melt down, restricting the exhaust flow, rendering the converter useless for emission control purposes, and creating an undercar fire hazard. Some such conditions are oil-burning engines, overly rich fuel mixtures, and misfires.

 

Steve,

“O” But I do! Sorry, I only used o2 sensor because it was mentioned earlier by you! As for the catalytic converters I have yet to see any of them fail for this reason. Sorry Steve, I do understand and I still do not agree.

 

Jagman, if you can, measure the fuel rail pressure. It should be up around 40-50 psi with the motor not running (but the key in the RUN position) and 30-40 psi with the motor running. If you are getting that, then the problem is with the fuel injectors or the computer not seeing the engine turning over. If you don't get the fuel pressure, then I would start with the fuel filter (easiest thing to change and also cheap). After that, you are more than likely looking at a fuel pump that while it is running, it has an internal failure and is not pumping.

Not to ask a silly question, but does your car have a split tank? What I mean by this is some Jags have a hump in the center of the tank to support the driveshaft. So, these tanks have 2 fuel pumps in them. One to power the engine, one to transfer fuel from the one side to the other. If you are down around a 1/4 tank or so, that could also be a potential problem (ie, transfer pump has failed and you are sucking on a dry half of the tank).