Absolutely... You'd have to pull that 8mm bolt and pull the crank locking plug first, but it beats having to pull the assy's off the cams, put the bolts back in, rotate the intake (against the valves), get it right with the exhaust cam, tighten that bolt, rotate them both back (against the valves) and install the locking tool... Either or... Just my two cents...

Cheers!!

 

A *lot* of info here that's too cautious - Jaguar have designed this engine and in particular the cams so you can rotate them back by using pipe grips, they even have a shoulder located at the centre to do this, see the picture.....Don't remove the crank lock or rotate the crank.

 

Hi,
looks as if there is several ways to rectify a slip up. either way will work. A 20 degree movement of the cam is a small amount to reftify.

Id shut the garage doors, fill my mug with coffee and take plenty of time. each method will work, each method involves the same effort, and each method will be succesful.

once your running I dont think your have problems with the water in the bores. you will be running in no time. then you can revisit the chains again. we all wish you well in due course.

its an interesting topic we clearly wish we could all get stuck in too. nothing like a challange.

Stephen

 

Sean - you are absolutely right. A picture is worth a thousand words.

Roadhogg - Sorry for complicating the matter.

Bluexk8ragtop - Your statements were correct also.

 

steve i so,so wish i had a garage, and didn't live 2 floors above the car.

Sean B i saw that contraption you pictured on the cam, but like the rounded end on the cam, it was angled towards the suspension bulkhead and i knew i wouldn't be able to get anything on it to turn the cam anticlockwise (further towards the bulkhead). And after Beav's warning about how brittle the camshaft is, i didn't really want to grip it with toothed tools anymore.

So i went the long way round, by removing the exhaust cam sprocket, secondary tensioner and chain, then re-installing the sprocket, tightening the sprocket bolt and using the camshaft setting tool in the sprocket holes to rotate the cam.

Worked a treat, and rotated the cam so easily it became obvious that this was the safest way to re-align the exhaust cam with the inlet cam, while risking zero damage to the camshaft.

I could then install the camshaft locking tool to lock the cams in their flats, and re-install the secondary tensioners,chain and sprocket.

First pic is of the camshaft misalignment,
Second and third is of the cams locked after removing the tensioner and chain, and aligning with the setting tool on the sprocket.
And last is with the tensioner,chain and sprocket re-installed.
It may have taken a bit longer than other methods, but did not involve touching the camshaft or risking any damge to it.
I also didn't have to jack the car up and remove the crank plug to rotate the crankshaft.

For me, having tried it now versus vice grips and using the opposite end of the cam, both of which were unsuccessful and risked damage to the camshaft, it's the only way to go.


First pic is of the cam misalignment.
2 and 3 are of the cams locked after using the setting tool to turn the cam
And last is with the tensioner, chain and sprocket re-installed.

 

Hi,
Great to see you have got it sorted. Bear in mind steveinfrance thread and how these tensioners need time to prime, prior to running. either removing fuel relay and turning over before starting any work, or you can remove plugs and turn over several times just to get pressure in the tensioners.

I had nightmares when I did the same job not so long ago. like leaving a wrench on the crank pulley. Thankfully I did not do so. some have, have a good final check.

Best Wishes
stephen

 

Result!
There's always more than one way to do anything and the if you have a way you're comfortable with, that's the "best" way.
It looks like you got there just in time or we would be reading another tragig tale, have you put dropping the sump on the to do list?

 

I'd like to thank everyone that contributed, whether their methods and advice was used or not. As Norri says, there are sometimes various ways of doing things.

To answer your question Norri, due to the metal filings from the tensioner, and missing bottom shoe, an oil flush, change,internal sump inspection and clean out look like a sensible precaution.

steve the fuel pump fuse is out and will stay out when i start it for about half a minute, to prime the tensioners.

I'll be going through everything carefully step by step before i try starting it.

Still waiting on a 1/2" drive Teng wrench (70-350NM) and a long 10mm hex bit that my neighbour will cut the right angle off with an axle grinder, so i can slot it into the 1/2" hex socket i've got to torque up properly with the Teng.
The torque wrench i just got is a 3/8" drive (5-112NM), so it was no good with the hex socket, and none of the existing assortment of hex bits and sockets i've got would fit with the torque wrench due to the cam covers.
In the meantime i'll do the other tensioner and start putting the intake manifold and throttle body back on.

 

@Roadhogg - did you get the shorter bolts with the metal tensioners? looking at the last picture it looks like the original bolts are used?

 

Glad you mentioned it Sean B, i never noticed until i saw your post.

I did indeed get new bolts to use with the tensioners, as well as new bolts for the primary tensioners, but they were in a seperate bag, so i hadn't noticed, and re-used the original bolts.

I'll replace the originals with the new ones.

Might be an idea to explain at this point, that the hex bit people can see sticking out of the sprocket belongs to the neighbour with the axle grinder.

It was ok to undo and retighten the sprocket, but no good for re-torqueing.

 

Umm, just when i thought i had it sorted, having got the new torque wrench and hex bit, fitted the new tensioner bolts ( thanks again Sean B) and torqued up the sprocket, one of the camshaft bolts sheered just below the join between the cam cover and cylinder head as i was torqueing up the camshaft cover to 11 Nm.

I can't find the part numbers for sale anywhere (NCE2565CA and NCA2565BC), so i wondered if these bolts are interchangable with those from an XJ8, which gives part numbers AJ86865 and AJ86866, and are the latter in turn interchangable with those of the supercharged cam covers with part numbers AJ810628 and AJ810629.

 

I can't help with the part numbers Roadhogg but are you using JTIS for the torque figures?
The cover bolt spec shows 9-11 Nm, the first figure is for used fasteners and the second for new.

 

Yes Norri, i printed out the instructions for the cam covers from the JTIS including the tightening sequence diagram.

But i didn't know that the figures given were not a range approximation, rather than specific figures for new and used bolts.

In this particular case i don't know that it would have mattered anyway since the bolt probably didn't get past 5 or 6 Nm before i got the impression it wasn't tightening down anymore.

I gave it 3 more part turns on the ratchet, in case the washer was sticking or something, but then it just snapped.

From looking at the remains of the bolt i think it may have been defective, because i've sheered bolts on other things before, and they normally sheer quite evenly, but not this one.

 

Did you get the bit out?
Is there anything special about it. Maybe you can improvise with a regular bolt?

 

No i haven't got the bit out yet. The same neighbour that axle grinded my hex bit for me tried to hacksaw a slit in the bottom part of the bolt that sticks out the bottom of the bolt seat, but we couldn't get it out and had to abandon it because working by torchlight wasn't ideal.

As to anything special about the sheared bolt, i don't know, but of the few i've sheared in years past i think thay generally sheared quite flat, whereas this one seems to have sheared quite a bit lower on one side than the other.

It's just the way it stopped tightening after a certain point, and the unevenness of the break, makes me think the bolt may have had a crack in it, and i've twisted it off at the crack rather than shearing a healthy bolt.

I could easily be wrong, and i often am

Edit: just fixing my spelling, seems when i forget myself i spell sheared as sheered. . .tut

 

No, I didn't mean special refering to the break, I was thinking you may not need a Jag bolt to replace it.

Are the bolts all the same length? Could you have put a long one in the wrong place and bottomed out?

 

They don't look special, as long as any replacement has the same length, thread length and thread size.
I left the bolts in the cam cover throughout, so the same bolts are still in the same holes they came out of.

I'd like to be able to find a complete new set though.

The one that's broken off is easily accessible, if the same thing happened to an outer corner bolt at the windscreen end it could be much more trouble.

 

Gotcha

 

 

I might be worthwhile chasing those threads with a tap.
RJ_______________
97 XK8 85K mi