My review of my 05 XKR that arrived Friday
#1
02-15-2010, 02:04 PM
My review of my 05 XKR that arrived Friday
My initial review of my 2005 after a weekend of cruising… just my personal opinion of course. Long - bloggish…(hey, you don't have to read it, this is just sizing it up for myself on paper...)
It arrived after dark on Friday from Las Vegas to Florida covered in a thick layer of sand and salt coming through the ice storms on an uncovered 18 wheel car hauler and too late to get tags. So after a quick coin car washing it was time to check it out crossing my fingers having no plates on it.
It’s a 2005 XKR Coupe that came with the then optional Brembo brakes, 20 inch wheels, and the microwave cruise control, the optional full Recaro interior plus the now outdated Sat-Nav and accordingly stickered about $25,000 over the base price ($110,000 new back then). Now with 40K miles on it.
My review:
It's a good-looking car in the sense of a design masterpiece. I recall a reviewer writing it looks like "sex on 4 wheels." A bit of an overstatement but this is a "guy" look very sharp car. It looks sleeker, smaller and more shaped that it actually is - no easy trick. I would call it a style masterpiece as its appearance goes beyond its reality.
The back body is notably dull and the rear bumper seems marginally designed. The side profile is great as it the view from the front. From the rear it's just another car.
I would prefer the "fangs" in the front rather than the bland chrome grill. Since Jag slightly changes the cowl opening every other year I'm not sure what year, if any, triple grills to return the fangs would fit. The fangs are what clearly define it as a Jaguar in my opinion, though that would be dating it backwards in time. If anyone knows what triple grill would fit an 05 XKR I'd like to know.
It's low in the front and slightly scrapes the ground leaving our driveway, but that is not a design flaw. Until then I was thinking of lowering springs. It is a driveway flaw.
Driving it…
It is absurdly, annoyingly, quiet for its style. No XK Jag should (not) sound like this - as in no sound at all. Even when you open it up there is no engine feedback. That should be an easy fix though possibly as simple as having a muffler shop replacing the front muffler with straight sections of pipe - if the ECU will allow it.
Overall, there is little feedback from the car while driving it. It sounds and seems to handle no different than any other luxury cruiser, though I didn't put it through any hard curves to see what it could do.
The interior is somewhat claustrophobic for 6+ foot tall guy with its tiny slot side windows. Don't even think about seeing behind you while backing up. But all that is acceptable and is a price to pay for the looks of it. Be carefully backing up if there is ANY possibility of a child or shopping cart behind you.
There is nothing about it in terms of driving it that says "performance" car other than a notable ease of acceleration and a low stance. This car will accelerate VERY quickly and seemingly effortlessly. There is no motor feedback, no muscle car feel, no steering feedback etc. It instead falls into the category of a high-speed personal luxury grand touring car and that it does well.
In terms of performance and handling "feel" I would put it vastly below the many Porsche 928 V8s of different vintages I owned in the past. Those all told you "I handle like a slot car. Try me." The XKR seems lazy in that way, leaving you to guess what it can do.
That, of course, is sense impressions rather than actual performance. But pushing performance is difficult to do psychologically when you feel detached from the car. That combined with the control-freak factor of the ECU leaves me feeling like I exist for the car, rather than the other way around. It is hard to "Karma bond" in a "one-with-the-car" emotion to the XKR in a performance or a control sense.
I haven't read the manual so don't know what turns computer controls on and off. It's very quick, though the silence somewhat minimizes the sense of acceleration. It would accelerate very impressively when I punched it but would not smoke the tires - maybe I have something set wrong. It is the smoothest shifting automatic I've ever had and while I would vastly prefer a manual transmission it has the only automatic that I find fully acceptable. If shifts as though not shifting at all. Upshift. Downshift. It just is in the right gear. You have to listen extremely close or look at your tach to even notice the shift. It does the same manually shifting. It annoying lacks the 1st gear place, but that is common even in performance cars now. I'm not sure why. The Mercedes-built 6 speed is just that good. Best ever automatic.
It is extraordinarily comfortable to cruise in; great sound system, and I particularly do like the microwave cruise control, as on the state highways around here you otherwise have to constantly be restarting the cruise control making cruise control worthless. I could see driving this car 1,000 miles and feeling refreshed rather than worn on arrival. Other than the annoying slight pull to the right required on all new cars, you could lotus position sit on the seat all the way but for refueling stops.
The microwave controlled spacing cruising control won't lock up the brakes but will slow you down VERY quickly if need be. I tried veering somewhat towards oncoming cars in curves to see if it would go panic, but it ignored them so I had no problem with it slowing down when it didn't need to.
At about 10 miles an hour the cruise control cuts off with "driver intervention" coming up. But just push the button and your back on cruise control where it was set and it will follow the car in front of you at whatever distance you set it at.
It also seems a nice safeguard if you "zone out" while messing with the stereo or cell phone - meaning you don't mindlessly rear end a car. It would seem ideal in rush hour traffic that is still moving to avoid rear ending someone.
The lack of a sense of steering/handling is the only aspect I would describe as disappointing - stopping just short of putting a "very" in front of that. But I haven't pushed it (Mrs. along) to see if that changes. Maybe that changes if you push it hard on the curves in the sense of being a dual personality car.
HANDLING matters greatly to me as the curves are where the fun is at in road driving, not straight-line acceleration. I can't really do 155 on the Interstate and get away with it. I can and often did get away with hitting curves marked at 35 doing 75 in the old 928s because police don't radar the curvy parts of back highways. They park over the hill on long straight-aways of course. Even if they are cruising with radar on, you can see them before you are straight on to them when on curves.
I'm a pokey driver in general due to the armies of police radar along with constantly changing speed limits on the roads around here for no apparent reason other than to make speed traps. Seriously, a road can quickly be dropped to 35mph and even 25mph for seemingly no reason at all - other than the radar unit parked in the trees just past that sign.
It is my preferred driving style to speed up, rather than slow down, for curve warnings. If I find a good collection I'll spend months seeing how many mphs I can add each week to taking those curves. Luckily I've never lost a car doing so and I've pushed it extremely hard. Only once was I stopped by police and that was for taking a 35 mph curve at over 100 mph (107 to be exact) - a curve I was well familiar with as it was on the way home. But I had first stopped to literally walked it on foot with a broom to brush away every pebble before doing so. Only then was I willing to go-for-broke as both sides were lined with boulders.
What I didn't know is that a radar unit was watching me the whole time from a hill. He said he never say anyone take that popular curve that fast and he was so impressed at my pre-course sweep-down he let me off with a warning. 107 in a 35.
I remember when selling a very early vintage 928 - the lowest horsepower years though back then one of the fastest cars made, but also lightest weight vintage and it had a very rare Porsche performance suspension option on it. Those old 16 valve 928 V8s sounded like an old school Chrysler Hemi with a Borla exhaust on it.
I sold to a guy who showed up after well after dark. I urged him to come look the next day, but he wanted to go for a ride. So I took him to my favorite collection of curves - making curves marked at 25 to 35 mph at speeds approaching 100 mph and playing through the screaming manual transmission with no break aways at the rear. I'm surprised his grip on the dash hadn't pressed through the vinyl and at first his face told that he was fully terrified. Running into a curve marked at 25 mph at 7000 rpm doing 80 and coming out of it doing 95… 5 minutes later through about 7 miles of the finest backroad curves you've ever seen that I'd rehearsed a hundred times before he announced "I'll take it!" He hadn't even asked how much, but I was fair about it anyway.
(He wanted to drive it back and he had me terrified for his lack of the simple concept that you must keep the tires off the shoulder gravel on the curves! Still that old 928 stuck to the ground like it was just Sunday driving.)
I guess that is the sensation I hoped for this Jaguar - a car that positively tells you "I CAN DO MORE THAN YOU HAVE THE COURAGE TO TRY" when it comes to handling.
This 'o5 XKR accelerates excellently but does so silently and with no tire squawk so much of the thrill of punching it is gone. You can tell it's carrying 500 pounds too much weight, but that comes with luxury and options. Rather just suddenly you've gone from 0 to 60 with only the little whine of the supercharger and some being pressed back in the seat resulting. It is great for making it through those bothersome yellow lights springing from 35 to 60 in a couple of seconds.
The back seats really are worthless other than a place to toss packages or a brief case and then non-to-easy to retrieve. When I have the front seat where I want it, there is less than 1 inch between the back of it and the rear seat.
Unlike my old 928s, the XKR is not a car that leads you to suddenly finding yourself doing 90 without realizing it. It neither pushes you to go faster or slower, which is a desirable aspect. You don't have to keep your eye glued to the speedo if off cruise control to avoid a surprise speeding ticket or building up a wall of traffic behind you. The old 928s while cruising had no sense of speed while Interstate traveling. Unless you looked at the speedo you couldn't know if you were doing 30 or 90. That all changed in curves or playing the gears.
Other comments…
The rear axle ratio is WAY too long. It was turning only around 2000 rpm approaching Interstate speeds. Since it's governed to a max of 155 mph that would seem to make no sense, other than gas mileage. If I put any mods to the top of the list they are:
1. Opening up the exhaust for some engine feedback.
2. Lowering the rear gear ratio probably to 3.50 as essentially free relative horsepower.
3. Tightening the suspension a bit plus somehow (anyway possible) to provide any steering sensation feedback.
The reviews I read accurately described the brake pedal as feeling "mushy" for the massive brakes, but that is just a matter of becoming accustomed to it.
My other Jaguar is an old XJS with a Vette 454 in it (not SBC) and an upgraded suspension and sway bars from "The Driven Man." It is an entirely different creature. While my old XJS feels and sounds faster, this '05 XKR actually is significantly quicker in every way. It is the difference between an old car and a new one.
My review of my 05 XKR…
It's a wonderful road car that looks like a million bucks in a sophisticated way. It’s a showboat but not in the sense of demonstrating a midlife crisis. Everything about it declares you are a winner in a very tasteful way. The interior is opulent to the extent of almost swallowing you up in the billowing seats, leather and wood all around you.
But in OEM form the car hides its performance potential from you, the driver. It is difficult for someone who isn't a veteran racecar driver to have any sense of what the car can and can't do, raising a fear factor to pushing it on a curving road course. It also could get you in trouble quickly as you can silently hit 70 mph coming off of or running the yellow only knowing you hit 70 by looking down at the speedo, but it effortlessly slows down as quickly.
So I love this XKR as a sophisticated and jazzy showboat inside and other. Other than the manual transmission, it function it leaves same vintage Astons in the dust. It probably has the performance to match the look, but it hides that aspect from me - which is an aspect of it that I don't like. I wish it had more of a "sports car" feel, rather than a luxury cruiser feel. I guess I need my kidneys rattled a little to trust pushing it to the edge on the turns and I need the motor telling me its rpms by sound rather than just the tachometer.
I can see why people would opt for the convertibles, though I'm a coupe man. It will take some getting used to driving a car that I'm driving looking out what seems like little slots for windows. But I also know that ultimately this will evolve to a very secure "my little world" sense that is pleasing.
While by all the numbers it is superior to the old XKEs in performance, it lacks all the driving sensations. But such are modern cars I suppose.
So, then, that leaves the Mrs. and I at odds. She likes it as it is - quiet, smooth, silky. Of course, I want a screaming exhaust and just short of a Harley hardtail suspension feel. I've already communicated with Paramount Performance and the Driven Man over potential modifications. For only about $25 to $30K I can make this XKR what I believe is should be. A twin screw supercharger with matching intercooler, 3.50 gear controlled differential, headers, performance cats and matching exhaust, a water/alcohol injection system, stouter springs and doubling up the rear sway bar, then remapping the ECU - the list is long. Yet it is such a fine cruising car it possible I decide to leave it alone.
And that would be $25 to $30K in exactly the opposite direction of what the Mrs. likes of it. Of course, her car is a 1970 Morris Mini with a 90s fuel injected Mini motor and the all so rare air conditioning and a manual transmission. So we're just not going to see the world of cars the same - other than we share the common ground of driving Brits.
It arrived after dark on Friday from Las Vegas to Florida covered in a thick layer of sand and salt coming through the ice storms on an uncovered 18 wheel car hauler and too late to get tags. So after a quick coin car washing it was time to check it out crossing my fingers having no plates on it.
It’s a 2005 XKR Coupe that came with the then optional Brembo brakes, 20 inch wheels, and the microwave cruise control, the optional full Recaro interior plus the now outdated Sat-Nav and accordingly stickered about $25,000 over the base price ($110,000 new back then). Now with 40K miles on it.
My review:
It's a good-looking car in the sense of a design masterpiece. I recall a reviewer writing it looks like "sex on 4 wheels." A bit of an overstatement but this is a "guy" look very sharp car. It looks sleeker, smaller and more shaped that it actually is - no easy trick. I would call it a style masterpiece as its appearance goes beyond its reality.
The back body is notably dull and the rear bumper seems marginally designed. The side profile is great as it the view from the front. From the rear it's just another car.
I would prefer the "fangs" in the front rather than the bland chrome grill. Since Jag slightly changes the cowl opening every other year I'm not sure what year, if any, triple grills to return the fangs would fit. The fangs are what clearly define it as a Jaguar in my opinion, though that would be dating it backwards in time. If anyone knows what triple grill would fit an 05 XKR I'd like to know.
It's low in the front and slightly scrapes the ground leaving our driveway, but that is not a design flaw. Until then I was thinking of lowering springs. It is a driveway flaw.
Driving it…
It is absurdly, annoyingly, quiet for its style. No XK Jag should (not) sound like this - as in no sound at all. Even when you open it up there is no engine feedback. That should be an easy fix though possibly as simple as having a muffler shop replacing the front muffler with straight sections of pipe - if the ECU will allow it.
Overall, there is little feedback from the car while driving it. It sounds and seems to handle no different than any other luxury cruiser, though I didn't put it through any hard curves to see what it could do.
The interior is somewhat claustrophobic for 6+ foot tall guy with its tiny slot side windows. Don't even think about seeing behind you while backing up. But all that is acceptable and is a price to pay for the looks of it. Be carefully backing up if there is ANY possibility of a child or shopping cart behind you.
There is nothing about it in terms of driving it that says "performance" car other than a notable ease of acceleration and a low stance. This car will accelerate VERY quickly and seemingly effortlessly. There is no motor feedback, no muscle car feel, no steering feedback etc. It instead falls into the category of a high-speed personal luxury grand touring car and that it does well.
In terms of performance and handling "feel" I would put it vastly below the many Porsche 928 V8s of different vintages I owned in the past. Those all told you "I handle like a slot car. Try me." The XKR seems lazy in that way, leaving you to guess what it can do.
That, of course, is sense impressions rather than actual performance. But pushing performance is difficult to do psychologically when you feel detached from the car. That combined with the control-freak factor of the ECU leaves me feeling like I exist for the car, rather than the other way around. It is hard to "Karma bond" in a "one-with-the-car" emotion to the XKR in a performance or a control sense.
I haven't read the manual so don't know what turns computer controls on and off. It's very quick, though the silence somewhat minimizes the sense of acceleration. It would accelerate very impressively when I punched it but would not smoke the tires - maybe I have something set wrong. It is the smoothest shifting automatic I've ever had and while I would vastly prefer a manual transmission it has the only automatic that I find fully acceptable. If shifts as though not shifting at all. Upshift. Downshift. It just is in the right gear. You have to listen extremely close or look at your tach to even notice the shift. It does the same manually shifting. It annoying lacks the 1st gear place, but that is common even in performance cars now. I'm not sure why. The Mercedes-built 6 speed is just that good. Best ever automatic.
It is extraordinarily comfortable to cruise in; great sound system, and I particularly do like the microwave cruise control, as on the state highways around here you otherwise have to constantly be restarting the cruise control making cruise control worthless. I could see driving this car 1,000 miles and feeling refreshed rather than worn on arrival. Other than the annoying slight pull to the right required on all new cars, you could lotus position sit on the seat all the way but for refueling stops.
The microwave controlled spacing cruising control won't lock up the brakes but will slow you down VERY quickly if need be. I tried veering somewhat towards oncoming cars in curves to see if it would go panic, but it ignored them so I had no problem with it slowing down when it didn't need to.
At about 10 miles an hour the cruise control cuts off with "driver intervention" coming up. But just push the button and your back on cruise control where it was set and it will follow the car in front of you at whatever distance you set it at.
It also seems a nice safeguard if you "zone out" while messing with the stereo or cell phone - meaning you don't mindlessly rear end a car. It would seem ideal in rush hour traffic that is still moving to avoid rear ending someone.
The lack of a sense of steering/handling is the only aspect I would describe as disappointing - stopping just short of putting a "very" in front of that. But I haven't pushed it (Mrs. along) to see if that changes. Maybe that changes if you push it hard on the curves in the sense of being a dual personality car.
HANDLING matters greatly to me as the curves are where the fun is at in road driving, not straight-line acceleration. I can't really do 155 on the Interstate and get away with it. I can and often did get away with hitting curves marked at 35 doing 75 in the old 928s because police don't radar the curvy parts of back highways. They park over the hill on long straight-aways of course. Even if they are cruising with radar on, you can see them before you are straight on to them when on curves.
I'm a pokey driver in general due to the armies of police radar along with constantly changing speed limits on the roads around here for no apparent reason other than to make speed traps. Seriously, a road can quickly be dropped to 35mph and even 25mph for seemingly no reason at all - other than the radar unit parked in the trees just past that sign.
It is my preferred driving style to speed up, rather than slow down, for curve warnings. If I find a good collection I'll spend months seeing how many mphs I can add each week to taking those curves. Luckily I've never lost a car doing so and I've pushed it extremely hard. Only once was I stopped by police and that was for taking a 35 mph curve at over 100 mph (107 to be exact) - a curve I was well familiar with as it was on the way home. But I had first stopped to literally walked it on foot with a broom to brush away every pebble before doing so. Only then was I willing to go-for-broke as both sides were lined with boulders.
What I didn't know is that a radar unit was watching me the whole time from a hill. He said he never say anyone take that popular curve that fast and he was so impressed at my pre-course sweep-down he let me off with a warning. 107 in a 35.
I remember when selling a very early vintage 928 - the lowest horsepower years though back then one of the fastest cars made, but also lightest weight vintage and it had a very rare Porsche performance suspension option on it. Those old 16 valve 928 V8s sounded like an old school Chrysler Hemi with a Borla exhaust on it.
I sold to a guy who showed up after well after dark. I urged him to come look the next day, but he wanted to go for a ride. So I took him to my favorite collection of curves - making curves marked at 25 to 35 mph at speeds approaching 100 mph and playing through the screaming manual transmission with no break aways at the rear. I'm surprised his grip on the dash hadn't pressed through the vinyl and at first his face told that he was fully terrified. Running into a curve marked at 25 mph at 7000 rpm doing 80 and coming out of it doing 95… 5 minutes later through about 7 miles of the finest backroad curves you've ever seen that I'd rehearsed a hundred times before he announced "I'll take it!" He hadn't even asked how much, but I was fair about it anyway.
(He wanted to drive it back and he had me terrified for his lack of the simple concept that you must keep the tires off the shoulder gravel on the curves! Still that old 928 stuck to the ground like it was just Sunday driving.)
I guess that is the sensation I hoped for this Jaguar - a car that positively tells you "I CAN DO MORE THAN YOU HAVE THE COURAGE TO TRY" when it comes to handling.
This 'o5 XKR accelerates excellently but does so silently and with no tire squawk so much of the thrill of punching it is gone. You can tell it's carrying 500 pounds too much weight, but that comes with luxury and options. Rather just suddenly you've gone from 0 to 60 with only the little whine of the supercharger and some being pressed back in the seat resulting. It is great for making it through those bothersome yellow lights springing from 35 to 60 in a couple of seconds.
The back seats really are worthless other than a place to toss packages or a brief case and then non-to-easy to retrieve. When I have the front seat where I want it, there is less than 1 inch between the back of it and the rear seat.
Unlike my old 928s, the XKR is not a car that leads you to suddenly finding yourself doing 90 without realizing it. It neither pushes you to go faster or slower, which is a desirable aspect. You don't have to keep your eye glued to the speedo if off cruise control to avoid a surprise speeding ticket or building up a wall of traffic behind you. The old 928s while cruising had no sense of speed while Interstate traveling. Unless you looked at the speedo you couldn't know if you were doing 30 or 90. That all changed in curves or playing the gears.
Other comments…
The rear axle ratio is WAY too long. It was turning only around 2000 rpm approaching Interstate speeds. Since it's governed to a max of 155 mph that would seem to make no sense, other than gas mileage. If I put any mods to the top of the list they are:
1. Opening up the exhaust for some engine feedback.
2. Lowering the rear gear ratio probably to 3.50 as essentially free relative horsepower.
3. Tightening the suspension a bit plus somehow (anyway possible) to provide any steering sensation feedback.
The reviews I read accurately described the brake pedal as feeling "mushy" for the massive brakes, but that is just a matter of becoming accustomed to it.
My other Jaguar is an old XJS with a Vette 454 in it (not SBC) and an upgraded suspension and sway bars from "The Driven Man." It is an entirely different creature. While my old XJS feels and sounds faster, this '05 XKR actually is significantly quicker in every way. It is the difference between an old car and a new one.
My review of my 05 XKR…
It's a wonderful road car that looks like a million bucks in a sophisticated way. It’s a showboat but not in the sense of demonstrating a midlife crisis. Everything about it declares you are a winner in a very tasteful way. The interior is opulent to the extent of almost swallowing you up in the billowing seats, leather and wood all around you.
But in OEM form the car hides its performance potential from you, the driver. It is difficult for someone who isn't a veteran racecar driver to have any sense of what the car can and can't do, raising a fear factor to pushing it on a curving road course. It also could get you in trouble quickly as you can silently hit 70 mph coming off of or running the yellow only knowing you hit 70 by looking down at the speedo, but it effortlessly slows down as quickly.
So I love this XKR as a sophisticated and jazzy showboat inside and other. Other than the manual transmission, it function it leaves same vintage Astons in the dust. It probably has the performance to match the look, but it hides that aspect from me - which is an aspect of it that I don't like. I wish it had more of a "sports car" feel, rather than a luxury cruiser feel. I guess I need my kidneys rattled a little to trust pushing it to the edge on the turns and I need the motor telling me its rpms by sound rather than just the tachometer.
I can see why people would opt for the convertibles, though I'm a coupe man. It will take some getting used to driving a car that I'm driving looking out what seems like little slots for windows. But I also know that ultimately this will evolve to a very secure "my little world" sense that is pleasing.
While by all the numbers it is superior to the old XKEs in performance, it lacks all the driving sensations. But such are modern cars I suppose.
So, then, that leaves the Mrs. and I at odds. She likes it as it is - quiet, smooth, silky. Of course, I want a screaming exhaust and just short of a Harley hardtail suspension feel. I've already communicated with Paramount Performance and the Driven Man over potential modifications. For only about $25 to $30K I can make this XKR what I believe is should be. A twin screw supercharger with matching intercooler, 3.50 gear controlled differential, headers, performance cats and matching exhaust, a water/alcohol injection system, stouter springs and doubling up the rear sway bar, then remapping the ECU - the list is long. Yet it is such a fine cruising car it possible I decide to leave it alone.
And that would be $25 to $30K in exactly the opposite direction of what the Mrs. likes of it. Of course, her car is a 1970 Morris Mini with a 90s fuel injected Mini motor and the all so rare air conditioning and a manual transmission. So we're just not going to see the world of cars the same - other than we share the common ground of driving Brits.
#2
02-15-2010, 03:55 PM
Veteran member
nice...long, read. 
Let us know after some more time in the cockpit, if your 'handling' perception changes. I've heard nothing but good things about the XKR and its ability to corner.
An exhaust will clear up any 'sounds' that you are missing, and as long as Mrs. doesn't push down too hard, should be able to keep it quiet for her on normal throttle.
I've read where someone beefed up the rear sway bar too...so that can be done. As for HP, people play with the pulley, just check out the STR threads talking about mods, you can do the same thing to the XKR I believe.
I personally like it quiet. Just think...you're a sleeper to almost everyone on the street...surely that has got to hold some value to your more 'flashy' side.
Enjoy!!
Let us know after some more time in the cockpit, if your 'handling' perception changes. I've heard nothing but good things about the XKR and its ability to corner.
An exhaust will clear up any 'sounds' that you are missing, and as long as Mrs. doesn't push down too hard, should be able to keep it quiet for her on normal throttle.
I've read where someone beefed up the rear sway bar too...so that can be done. As for HP, people play with the pulley, just check out the STR threads talking about mods, you can do the same thing to the XKR I believe.
I personally like it quiet. Just think...you're a sleeper to almost everyone on the street...surely that has got to hold some value to your more 'flashy' side.
Enjoy!!
#3
02-15-2010, 04:44 PM
Veteran Member
#4
02-15-2010, 06:33 PM
Veteran Member
After having headers, no catalytic converters, and only glasspacks on my '87 Cougar with a 302 V8, the silence of the Jag is on the list of things I plan on changing (although I'll never make her as loud as the Cougar). In some ways I wish I held out for an XKR, but I'm happy with the 8.
How reliable were your 928s? I've heard horror stories about them, but I've loved them since I was young. My neighbor had one and before he moved he gave me a few rides that are permanently ingrained in my head. I've attached a picture of me as a little 4 year old in 1988 with his 928.
How reliable were your 928s? I've heard horror stories about them, but I've loved them since I was young. My neighbor had one and before he moved he gave me a few rides that are permanently ingrained in my head. I've attached a picture of me as a little 4 year old in 1988 with his 928.
#5
02-15-2010, 07:22 PM
Veteran Member
Welcome aboard-a nice long read. If you want the triple opening in the grill I think the 2004 had that, but the entire bumper would probably need to be changed. The Brembo brakes were standard on the XKR but the red calipers were an extra (as far as I know the standard calipers are still Brembo but I may be wrong).
My greatest disappointment compared with my 1995 Corvette (recently sold) is that total lack of feedback through the steering wheel. The steering feel of the Corvette was just about perfect for my needs (you always feel some resistance) whereas the XKR has no resistance--feels like steering on "ice" all the time.
Of course the XK8/XKR are not intended to be muscle/sports cars like a Porsche or Corvette but, rather, grand touring cars with some oomph.
Doug
My greatest disappointment compared with my 1995 Corvette (recently sold) is that total lack of feedback through the steering wheel. The steering feel of the Corvette was just about perfect for my needs (you always feel some resistance) whereas the XKR has no resistance--feels like steering on "ice" all the time.
Of course the XK8/XKR are not intended to be muscle/sports cars like a Porsche or Corvette but, rather, grand touring cars with some oomph.
Doug
#6
02-16-2010, 02:14 PM
How reliable were your 928s? I've heard horror stories about them, but I've loved them since I was young. My neighbor had one and before he moved he gave me a few rides that are permanently ingrained in my head. I've attached a picture of me as a little 4 year old in 1988 with his 928.
It would never be just a matter of replacing a switch. You'd be pulling off door panels and taking out the seats, testing current on wires under the carpet and through the firewall - an entire day and you still will not find why the window won't open, why the electric fuel pump has not current and on and on and on.
I've never had any car with more endless gremlins. Those are the downfall to buying used 928s and why I finally abandoned them. It's not just the cost of maintenance, but whether it is even possible.
And don't even think of going to a Porsche dealer with a 928. Porsche all but denies they ever existed at all (probably because even the oldest 928 had for less than 5 grand will blow the doors of their little Boxters and run circles around it in corners.) The 928 is the ONLY Porsche that gets NO respect in Porsche circles, whether clubs, repair shops or Porsche itself.
#7
02-16-2010, 03:22 PM
Veteran Member
Doug
Trending Topics
#8
02-16-2010, 04:52 PM
I never was really much of a Porsche fan. When I was younger and started noticing cars, my impression of the Porsche (must have been in the late 1970s or early 1980s) was a bunch of loud revving noise and, more often than not, a bunch of black smoke. Curiously, the only Porsche I have ever admired (at least from a looks point-of-view) was the 928.
Doug
Doug
#9
02-16-2010, 05:07 PM
I was just thinking the other day about which cars have kept their classic lines well over a long period of time. The original XKE comes to mind, the Z car, even the XK8 for several years, but, I have to think that the 911 holds the ultimate title. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_911 "The Porsche 911 (pronounced as Nine Eleven, German: Neunelfer) is a sports car made by Porsche AG of Stuttgart, Germany. The famous, distinctive, and durable design is notable for being rear engined like the Porsche-designed Volkswagen Beetle it had been based on. The car was also air-cooled until the introduction of the newly-designed Type 996 in 1998. Since its introduction in autumn 1963[1], it has undergone continuous development[2]. The basic concept has remained little changed throughout its evolution.[2]" I know that I used to see them around from time to time, but, when I thought about it, I realized that I hardly ever see one any more. I thought that Jaguar did an extraordinary job in re-creating the XKE in the original XK8. After several years, apparently, they had to modify and update the styling. These newer Jags are, no doubt, superior vehicles in many ways to the older models, but to me they lack those classic lines and beauty that the original rebirth had. I read where someone compared their looks to Aston Martins, and I can see that resemblance. I can understand that Jaguar had to change the newer models so that you could distinguish a 2008 Jag XK8 that just cost the guy $80,000+ from a 1997 that the other guy just paid $12,500 for, but, honestly, I prefer the classic looks of the earlier models. No offense to the guys who have the new ones, they are, as I said, clearly superior cars, but I am just talking about classic looks at this point.
#10
02-16-2010, 05:16 PM
Veteran Member
These newer Jags are, no doubt, superior vehicles in many ways to the older models, but to me they lack those classic lines and beauty that the original rebirth had. I read where someone compared their looks to Aston Martins, and I can see that resemblance. I can understand that Jaguar had to change the newer models so that you could distinguish a 2008 Jag XK8 that just cost the guy $80,000+ from a 1997 that the other guy just paid $12,500 for, but, honestly, I prefer the classic looks of the earlier models. No offense to the guys who have the new ones, they are, as I said, clearly superior cars, but I am just talking about classic looks at this point.
#11
02-16-2010, 05:45 PM
You could put a few thousand dollars into engine mods and get greatly improved performance, if that is what you chose to do. You are a young guy, and I have been through that stage with my 340 Duster a long long time ago. I bought this car for exactly what it was designed for, I bought it because I love the looks because from the first time that I saw an XKE I wanted one, and several years later, I was considering buying one, but even the salesmen told me that you did not buy one to be your daily driver. I love how it drives, I love the style and panache of the Jaguar name. I am long over playing Speed Racer, though, I will have to admit that I do also love the acceleration from 70-95 or so to get distance from the idiots on the road. I consider this one of the great automobiles ever manufactured, and there are, no doubt, many others, but, to me this was the best looking, and when I drove a few, it drove better than the others to my tastes.
Last edited by Kevin D; 02-16-2010 at 05:53 PM. Reason: info left out
#12
02-16-2010, 05:58 PM
Veteran Member
You could put a few thousand dollars into engine mods and get greatly improved performance, if that is what you chose to do. You are a young guy, and I have been through that stage with my 340 Duster a long long time ago. I bought this car for exactly what it was designed for, I bought it because I love the looks because from the first time that I saw an XKE I wanted one, and several years later, I was considering buying one, but even the salesmen told me that you did not buy one to be your daily driver. I love how it drives, I love the style and panache of the Jaguar name. I am long over playing Speed Racer, though, I will have to admit that I do also love the acceleration from 70-95 or so to get distance from the idiots on the road. I consider this one of the great automobiles ever manufactured, and there are, no doubt, many others, but, to me this was the best looking, and when I drove a few, it drove better than the others to my tastes.
#13
02-16-2010, 06:12 PM
Veteran Member
Ditto here.
Car I first fell in love with--1962 Jaguar XKE at New York City Auto Show
Cars I miss the most--my 1970 RoadRunner (beep-beep) and 1968 Barracuda Fastback--both would be worth a fortune today
Cars I loved but "oh the maintenance"--1981 Audi Turbo 5000 and 1986 BMW 325ES
Car I have loved the most no complaints at all--1995 Corvette (recently sold, boo-hoo)
Car I was most satisfied obtaining--2005 XKR (so far, so good).
Doug
#14
02-16-2010, 07:02 PM
Originally Posted by K.Westra
I bought this car for exactly what it was designed for, I bought it because I love the looks because from the first time that I saw an XKE I wanted one, and several years later, I was considering buying one, but even the salesmen told me that you did not buy one to be your daily driver. I love how it drives, I love the style and panache of the Jaguar name. I am long over playing Speed Racer, though, I will have to admit that I do also love the acceleration from 70-95 or so to get distance from the idiots on the road. I consider this one of the great automobiles ever manufactured, and there are, no doubt, many others, but, to me this was the best looking, and when I drove a few, it drove better than the others to my tastes.
The next was a 12 cylinder in the mid eightys - and even the seller (a friend) admitted that he was selling it because he could never depend on getting it started..
Finally now in retirement - a black and white 2002 XKR seems very much like it was worth the wait! Thanks guys - for all you do here - I love the exchange! DaleD
Last edited by H20boy; 02-16-2010 at 08:26 PM. Reason: fix quotes
#15
02-16-2010, 08:11 PM
The XKE convertibles looked sharp and had a very unique feel sitting in one. The Last of them, the V12s, had a very nice, wider stance.
Aston and XK8/Rs share much in common, but made in the same factory in the UK, Ford owned, if I'm correct.
Jaguar, like many companies unable to gain super car prices but also cannot obtain mass scale production cost savings, tend to duplicate the same body year after year well for over a decade. The Porsche 928s are the same. The same basic body/chassis covered about 17 years if I remember correctly. The tool up costs are so massive they have no choice.
So instead the change the front and rear pieces, flair the fenders a little, add a spoiler or wing, a scoop here and there, to extend the basic design as many years as it possible.
If they have a winner like the XK8/R, it works.
On the other hand, putting up all the millions to go to a new model and if flops, the company goes under.
I read that currently hard decisions are being made whether to foremost advance Jaguar or Land Rover, as like for all car companies sales are dwindling. Expect the XK8/Rs to continue the same style for a few more years. They'll flair out the fenders a little more, some hood/bonnet changes, add gimmicks to the inside, and possibly do some fairly notable changes to the nose and tail lights to carry it along best possible.
Aston and XK8/Rs share much in common, but made in the same factory in the UK, Ford owned, if I'm correct.
Jaguar, like many companies unable to gain super car prices but also cannot obtain mass scale production cost savings, tend to duplicate the same body year after year well for over a decade. The Porsche 928s are the same. The same basic body/chassis covered about 17 years if I remember correctly. The tool up costs are so massive they have no choice.
So instead the change the front and rear pieces, flair the fenders a little, add a spoiler or wing, a scoop here and there, to extend the basic design as many years as it possible.
If they have a winner like the XK8/R, it works.
On the other hand, putting up all the millions to go to a new model and if flops, the company goes under.
I read that currently hard decisions are being made whether to foremost advance Jaguar or Land Rover, as like for all car companies sales are dwindling. Expect the XK8/Rs to continue the same style for a few more years. They'll flair out the fenders a little more, some hood/bonnet changes, add gimmicks to the inside, and possibly do some fairly notable changes to the nose and tail lights to carry it along best possible.
#16
02-16-2010, 08:32 PM
Seismicguy, I had a '68 Cuda the very car before I got the 340 Duster.
My 340 Duster was much faster from 0 to about 80 than my 2001 XK8. When you stomp on my Jag, it gives you a very smooth escalation of power and speed. Very refined. My Duster kicked you in the butt and made a lot of noise, and you felt like you were hanging on for your life. It had an auto trans, and if you let it shift itself, it hit second gear at around 55 mph and your would hear the rear tires burn and the limited slip rear end put down two patches about 30 feet or so. It hit third (the last) gear at around 90 or so with a little chirp out of the tires, as it still spun them again. It was a totally different experience than driving the Jag. The Jag is controlled refinement and class with good performance. The Duster was raw power. I know that your Road Runner was the same thing, as many of my friends had them. BTW, as I suspect that you know, the Road Runner was the result of taking the pedestrian Mopar 383 and putting the 440 heads on it to let it breathe better. They also put in a better cam, intake manifold, carb, and exhaust manifold. Those things turned it into a very powerful engine.
Chevrolet actually started that concept when they took the crank out of the 283 and put it into the 327 block, added the Corvette heads, put it in the Camaro and came up with the Z28 with a 302 cube engine. Shorter stroke, bigger bore, better heads and valves and that car really ran. A guy on my street had a light blue 1967 GTO with the 389 and three deuces, which I always thought was one of the best looking American cars ever made. The State Trooper's son, down the block got a 1968 Road Runner when they first came out, and it was a good one. He could stomp the guy's GTO, so the guy bought a Z28. He could beat that Z28. The guy then sold his Z28 and bought a 454 Chevelle, finally, he could beat the Road Runner.
Another guy on the block decided to get in on the game and bought a GTX with a 440. He got beat by the 454 Chevelle and by a guy with a Charger with a Hemi. He took the engine out and sent it off to be balanced and blueprinted and reworked. He got it back a couple of months later, put it in, raced a few people, beat the &*^ out of them, and then no one would race him again. I was about 13 or 14 at that time. I grew up going to the drag strip in my local town. I saw a Super Stock '68 Cuda, right from the factory run a 10.37 two days after delivery, as delivered. The guy who bought it was a National Champion SS/BA with a 1964, 426 Wedge Plymouth Belvedere with a National record of 12.26. Here is a modern one
http://www.dragtimes.com/1964-Plymou...ures-9946.html
Now, the same model '68 Super Stock Cuda is for sale for $1.1 million!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Plymo...fCarsQ5fTrucks
My 340 Duster was much faster from 0 to about 80 than my 2001 XK8. When you stomp on my Jag, it gives you a very smooth escalation of power and speed. Very refined. My Duster kicked you in the butt and made a lot of noise, and you felt like you were hanging on for your life. It had an auto trans, and if you let it shift itself, it hit second gear at around 55 mph and your would hear the rear tires burn and the limited slip rear end put down two patches about 30 feet or so. It hit third (the last) gear at around 90 or so with a little chirp out of the tires, as it still spun them again. It was a totally different experience than driving the Jag. The Jag is controlled refinement and class with good performance. The Duster was raw power. I know that your Road Runner was the same thing, as many of my friends had them. BTW, as I suspect that you know, the Road Runner was the result of taking the pedestrian Mopar 383 and putting the 440 heads on it to let it breathe better. They also put in a better cam, intake manifold, carb, and exhaust manifold. Those things turned it into a very powerful engine.
Chevrolet actually started that concept when they took the crank out of the 283 and put it into the 327 block, added the Corvette heads, put it in the Camaro and came up with the Z28 with a 302 cube engine. Shorter stroke, bigger bore, better heads and valves and that car really ran. A guy on my street had a light blue 1967 GTO with the 389 and three deuces, which I always thought was one of the best looking American cars ever made. The State Trooper's son, down the block got a 1968 Road Runner when they first came out, and it was a good one. He could stomp the guy's GTO, so the guy bought a Z28. He could beat that Z28. The guy then sold his Z28 and bought a 454 Chevelle, finally, he could beat the Road Runner.
Another guy on the block decided to get in on the game and bought a GTX with a 440. He got beat by the 454 Chevelle and by a guy with a Charger with a Hemi. He took the engine out and sent it off to be balanced and blueprinted and reworked. He got it back a couple of months later, put it in, raced a few people, beat the &*^ out of them, and then no one would race him again. I was about 13 or 14 at that time. I grew up going to the drag strip in my local town. I saw a Super Stock '68 Cuda, right from the factory run a 10.37 two days after delivery, as delivered. The guy who bought it was a National Champion SS/BA with a 1964, 426 Wedge Plymouth Belvedere with a National record of 12.26. Here is a modern one
http://www.dragtimes.com/1964-Plymou...ures-9946.html
Now, the same model '68 Super Stock Cuda is for sale for $1.1 million!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Plymo...fCarsQ5fTrucks
Last edited by Kevin D; 02-16-2010 at 08:37 PM.
#17
02-16-2010, 11:25 PM
Veteran Member
Further digressing--I was a real Mopar fan for a while. My RoadRunner looked like Wally ***. It was white with a black hood strip, wire wheel/hubcabs, and a burnt orange interior with the high-back buckets. It was a 383 automatic and the more mods I did the worse it ran. I didn't really do things in an intelligent manner so the various parts I bolted on (oversized Holley carb, Torker manifold, Crane cam, headers, etc.) might have been good for a drag car but were horrible for daily driving.
The Barracuda looked mean (metallic burgundy paint, chrome reverse rims, black interior) but it was also an automatic but only with the 318 and a 2-barrel carb. I put on a dual exhaust with glass-packs and the sound was awesome. Even with that mild engine the car was pretty fun to drive.
However, those were the days when you would be fortunate to get 13 mpg, you needed a tune-up every other week, and if you went 50,000 miles without needing a valve job and rings you were lucky.
The most mundane of cars these days are lightyears better than any of the cars from that bygone era, imho.
Doug
The Barracuda looked mean (metallic burgundy paint, chrome reverse rims, black interior) but it was also an automatic but only with the 318 and a 2-barrel carb. I put on a dual exhaust with glass-packs and the sound was awesome. Even with that mild engine the car was pretty fun to drive.
However, those were the days when you would be fortunate to get 13 mpg, you needed a tune-up every other week, and if you went 50,000 miles without needing a valve job and rings you were lucky.
The most mundane of cars these days are lightyears better than any of the cars from that bygone era, imho.
Doug
#18
02-17-2010, 07:57 AM
The most mundane of cars these days are lightyears better than any of the cars from that bygone era, imho.
Doug
There is no doubt about that Doug. Back in those days, there was planned obsolescence. The American auto industry wanted you to buy a new car every two to three years. A lot of people even bought a new one every year. When a car had about 30,000 miles on it, you were getting ready for some pretty high repair bills. The Japanese ended that whole concept when the gas crunch hit. I was talking with a friend of mine last night about how in around 1977 we had to wait in line for a couple of hours to get gas for a few months. I went from an Olds Cutlass to a Toyota Corolla. He went from a Chevy Monte Carlo to a LeCar.
The American auto industry responded with the Pinto, the Vega (which I think is about the worst car ever made (excluding some of those Russian cars that were never sold here) the Pacer, and the Gremlin.
It took the American auto industry decades to come up close to the quality standards of those Japanese cars.
Doug
There is no doubt about that Doug. Back in those days, there was planned obsolescence. The American auto industry wanted you to buy a new car every two to three years. A lot of people even bought a new one every year. When a car had about 30,000 miles on it, you were getting ready for some pretty high repair bills. The Japanese ended that whole concept when the gas crunch hit. I was talking with a friend of mine last night about how in around 1977 we had to wait in line for a couple of hours to get gas for a few months. I went from an Olds Cutlass to a Toyota Corolla. He went from a Chevy Monte Carlo to a LeCar.
The American auto industry responded with the Pinto, the Vega (which I think is about the worst car ever made (excluding some of those Russian cars that were never sold here) the Pacer, and the Gremlin.
It took the American auto industry decades to come up close to the quality standards of those Japanese cars.
#19
02-17-2010, 08:49 AM
Competition is benefiting car buyers for sure. The auto companies fighting now for survival is benefiting consumers. From the early 70s well into the 90s cars were for the most part junk. The numbers coming out now are incredible.
Computers are allowing radically upgrading cars - but in a sense it is again working to quickly make the previous models obsolete.
The 400 horsepower of the XKRs certainly WAS impressive, but it has become a "was." Even the new performance Cadillacs are coming out at 565 horsepower in OEM form, thus an easy 600 with an exhaust upgrade and ECU remapping - a number our little 4.2s can't hope for in street from even with the most radical improvements. Cadillac hasn't been in the performance business since when? The 1930s?
With essentially every major maker pushing even their grand touring cars, not just performance models, into the 500 hp range, 600 is just around the corner.
The revival of performance in auto production is fantastic but also will (if not already) relegate our "old" XKR Jags into being iconic grand tourers that are well suited for driving but no longer suitable for serious performance consideration.
Because of the computer aspect, dropping in a hot Jag 5.0 and tricking it out isn't really an option.
Agree?
Computers are allowing radically upgrading cars - but in a sense it is again working to quickly make the previous models obsolete.
The 400 horsepower of the XKRs certainly WAS impressive, but it has become a "was." Even the new performance Cadillacs are coming out at 565 horsepower in OEM form, thus an easy 600 with an exhaust upgrade and ECU remapping - a number our little 4.2s can't hope for in street from even with the most radical improvements. Cadillac hasn't been in the performance business since when? The 1930s?
With essentially every major maker pushing even their grand touring cars, not just performance models, into the 500 hp range, 600 is just around the corner.
The revival of performance in auto production is fantastic but also will (if not already) relegate our "old" XKR Jags into being iconic grand tourers that are well suited for driving but no longer suitable for serious performance consideration.
Because of the computer aspect, dropping in a hot Jag 5.0 and tricking it out isn't really an option.
Agree?
#20
02-17-2010, 09:20 AM
Veteran Member
Competition is benefiting car buyers for sure. The auto companies fighting now for survival is benefiting consumers. From the early 70s well into the 90s cars were for the most part junk. The numbers coming out now are incredible.
Computers are allowing radically upgrading cars - but in a sense it is again working to quickly make the previous models obsolete.
The 400 horsepower of the XKRs certainly WAS impressive, but it has become a "was." Even the new performance Cadillacs are coming out at 565 horsepower in OEM form, thus an easy 600 with an exhaust upgrade and ECU remapping - a number our little 4.2s can't hope for in street from even with the most radical improvements. Cadillac hasn't been in the performance business since when? The 1930s?
With essentially every major maker pushing even their grand touring cars, not just performance models, into the 500 hp range, 600 is just around the corner.
The revival of performance in auto production is fantastic but also will (if not already) relegate our "old" XKR Jags into being iconic grand tourers that are well suited for driving but no longer suitable for serious performance consideration.
Because of the computer aspect, dropping in a hot Jag 5.0 and tricking it out isn't really an option.
Agree?
Computers are allowing radically upgrading cars - but in a sense it is again working to quickly make the previous models obsolete.
The 400 horsepower of the XKRs certainly WAS impressive, but it has become a "was." Even the new performance Cadillacs are coming out at 565 horsepower in OEM form, thus an easy 600 with an exhaust upgrade and ECU remapping - a number our little 4.2s can't hope for in street from even with the most radical improvements. Cadillac hasn't been in the performance business since when? The 1930s?
With essentially every major maker pushing even their grand touring cars, not just performance models, into the 500 hp range, 600 is just around the corner.
The revival of performance in auto production is fantastic but also will (if not already) relegate our "old" XKR Jags into being iconic grand tourers that are well suited for driving but no longer suitable for serious performance consideration.
Because of the computer aspect, dropping in a hot Jag 5.0 and tricking it out isn't really an option.
Agree?
