So I posted earlier how my 2001 XK8, 82,000 miles was have trouble starting and the mechanic I took it to claimed there were no P codes from testing and he thought the cam sensors were bad. Ironically, one month earlier, I had taken the car to the same mechanic to have the tensioners and timing chain replaced. At that time, they told me I did not need tensioners or a new timing chains, but swore I needed to spend $700 on new valve seals. I believed them. So hear we are a month later my car won't start they've been testing my car for the past 4 1/2 days with no P codes, and suddenly I get a call that they took off the valve cover and discovered that the secondary timing chain had broken. Not because it needed to be replaced one month ago as I requested, but because the cam sprocket jumped a tooth and caused the chain to break!.....

I hate being the woman going to the mechanic...So please someone give it to me straight, am I being taken for a ride here? If the secondary timing chain had broken wouldn't they see some sort of P codes/error in running diagnostics somewhere? They are telling me that even if they had replaced the timing chains and tensioners one month ago they would have broken anyway. Is that true?

So now they are asking for $2800 to replace the timing chains (both), the tensioners, the exhaust value I guess the cam with 10 hours of labor. Should I run for the hills? What are my options?

 

Yes your mechanic is taking u for a ride. He should have changed the secondary tensioners as on ur model you have the type 1 that go between 50-100K when the crack up the secondary chain becomes slack and will break or jump cogs. Now you could have some major damage, values, bits of plastic in the bottom of the engine.

If he had just change them a month ago the job would have been $300 parts Plus 4hrs labor.

 

THAT IS BS> They are trying to dodge a F UP they missed. You told them that you wanted it replaced, they should have done it. I would kick some serious heat up the ***** and make tem fix it on THEIR dime. You are on this site, you are well aware that isse could happen, that you know the tensioner could break or jsut crack enough to allowthe chain to jump a tooth. How the F does the cam sprocket jump on it's own if the chains are TENSIONED!!!!!!
I would rip them a new one and get a deal out of them to fix it costing you LITTLE!

 

2800 is about right for that repair from a shop. Tell them to use the timeing chain kit for the Lincoln cars, not the Jag kit which is MUCH more money and is the same friggin thing. While they are in there you may as well get the water pump replaced if orig.

 

The general concensus is that a one tooth jump does not damage the exhaust valves. Not sure why he is quoting that.

A two tooth or more jump, on the other hand causes much more major engine damage (valves and pistons due to interference).

On further thought, if, the chain actually broke, I guess it is unknown how many teeth it jumped or the extent of the internal damage without a major teardown.

 

Do you have any documentation, as in a service order, that confirms your request to replace the tensioners from a month ago?

 

Yes... I actually have the receipt where I requested the tensioner and the timing chains replaced. I have the actual receipt where they wrote that the tensioners and timing chain was okay and shouldn't be replaced that I need value seals instead.....which cost me $700.00.

 

Well when I initially left the car with them, it was able to start (after some software reset) albeit it sounded really bad...and they thought it was a bad cam sensor. If they went along those lines and continued testing and attempting to restart the car over and over again, wouldn't that cause further break down of the chain and further damage? Just trying to set the case to fry their axxes.

 

You may have a liablity claim against the shop, and they should have insurance to pay it. I would start here, and find out if it's worth pursuing:
http://www.handelonthelaw.com/home/radioquestions.aspx

 

That is a definite possibility with a tensioner/chain fault.

I agree that your documentation regarding their original mis-diagnosis is great negotiating leverage.

Is this even a Jag shop?....I cannot imagine any experienced shop would not know that the timing chain tensioners on your model need preventative replacement.

 

Attempting to start/run an engine with a cam timing issue will certainly initiate/aggravate further damage to the engine.

Assuming your comments on a specific request to replace the tensioner to be true and without an aggressive attempt on the part of the service provider to correct any and all issues at their expense, a legal solution may well be appropriate.

 

The shops website makes a reference to Jaguars and Foreign car specialists. The shop is even painted in Jaguar's Britsih racing green color.

They were not aggressive in trying to fix anything...That is unless I coughed up another $2800.00. They still claim that if they had changed the timing chains/tensioners as I requested a month ago, the cam sprocket would have jumped a tooth and broke the chain anyway.

I have had the car moved to another mechanic, a british mechanic with favorable reviews. I have requested he do an assessment to see what has really happened. Once I get that, then perhaps I can file a claim against their insurance policy.

Thank you everyone for all your help. I feel a little empowered now. I'm gonna give em hell and let you know what happened!

 

Nice! I believe, madam, that you have him by what's known as 'the short-n-curlies.'

 

I don't know who your original mechanic was but you should post their name so the rest of us can avoid them. I hope you can take this set of clowns down. Sorry to hear about your problems...maybe a good lawyer should be your next move after you find out the extent of the damage.

 

Is there a way to find out their insurance carrier?

 

I had the car moved to another mechanic. He did a preliminary inspection (not a full tear down yet) and found that the tensioners were infact the crappy plastic ones that I tried to replace one month earlier and was told they did not need replacing. It was that and not the silly cam sprocket story, that caused the timing chain failure. As far as he could see the engine was not great but don't know if the pistons were bad.

So I called the crazed mechanic and told him " Hey you lied about not needing the tensioners replaced, you caused the engine to fail, you need to pay for it....." He basically comes back with " I offered to fix it for a bargain of $2800.00...you can't get it done for free...." He never admitted to his error...no.... I'm sorry for the oversight.....

 

Have your new mechanic do a compression and a leak down test. That will tell you if you have bent valves and/or more serious problems. Some engines survive. With the diagnosis in writing offer the original mechanic the opportunity to repair any valve/head/piston damage at his cost in writing. I can understand not wanting to have the original guy fix it but he needs a chance to make it right. You should expect to pay no more than $800 to have the secondary tensioners replaced. Get it fixed. Ask for a 90 day, or more, warranty on repairs. Discuss with an attorney if you cannot negotiate the repairs for only the cost of the tensioner replacement.

This is only my musing on the described situation as if it was my car and not legal advice. Perhaps someone much more qualified could add comments on the subject.

 

Please note - I am not a practising lawyer but completed a degree in Law here in the UK, including contract and commercial law modules.

General advice is to stay objective - keep all paperwork, no matter how trivial. Make a note of dates when these events occurred (including telephone calls and visits).

Take photographs in as much detail as possible. In this case ask the new mechanic for help to make sure the relevant parts are photographed. As I understand it you will be asking the new mechanic to be carrying out the work ASAP to get the car running - ensure he keeps the plastic tensioners and chain for you, plus any other parts he may suggest support your position.

Always attempt to reason with a person before resorting to legal action; if you state (again, calmly) that you are compiling a record and seeking independent opinions he may see the error of his ways.

If you have to resort to action, as this is a lot of money, remember lawyers cost a lot more than mechanics. Be absolutely sure you want to pursue it. Ensure you find a lawyer who specialises in this kind of claim work. Do not use a family solicitor etc; they must be a consumer claim firm with a reputation. I believe in the US some firms even specialise in automotive claims against garages. Maybe members here can suggest local firms.

As a rule - always obtain written quotations including parts to be replaced and a description of the problem.

Hope this all works out!

 

In most cases, only the two tensioners on the exhaust cam chains at the top of the engine need replacing, plus of course your broken cam chain. So this should not cost too much assuming your broken cam chain has not cause a piston to hit a valve. If it has, then it is a heads off job, and yet more money, sorry !!

 

I feel your pain Ricardo... I had a situation that was simular. I had my Chains and tenssioners (both) replaced from a shop that claimed they were British Techs. I should have used my normal Jag techie, but I thought I would save a lousy 400 bucks. There is some issue about using a specialized tool to help put your VVT cams back in time. He claimed he had it so I let them do the work. After picking up the car when finished I noticed the "check engine" light was on. Figuring it just had to reset itself, I took it home and began a year long odyssey on trying to get rid of the CE light. Later, after well over a thousand piasters has been thrown into a big dark hole, I went back to my Jag techie and had him look it over. It was discoverd that both cams were out of time, and some wrong parts were used. $1123.00 later, I kept all receipts and had the Jag tech document all mistakes. I then had to start proceedings on a small claim court action. Anything under 2500 smackers (here in Ory-gone) is small claims action... NO lawyers are involved. I did re-coup my money after the shop owners agreed (after reading my documentation) to pay, and would I give him 60 days. It all came out OK, but what I'm trying to say is that the job should not cost more than 1800 clams. $2800.00 seems a bit excessive, unless they are a Jag Dealer. Make SURE your tech is qualified, and has the right tools and equipment. And don't try to cut corners to save a buck. I could cost you later.
Good Luck
Fast Freddie...