I actually just bought twenty connectors and twenty 0.2 ohm 100 watt resistors. When they arrive I'll assemble them into a complete solution that can easily be plugged right in to the existing connectors without having to cut any wires. The cost will probably be about $15-$20 including shipping. I'm not making any money on the deal. I'm just doing it because I think it's cool.

 

yeah these connectors certainly add to the cost, it just adds a coolness factor ...

 

Dennis,
Looking at the graph in your PDF document it looks like around 1200 psi with engine off no resistor, am I reading it right? Engine on with resistor does look around 1100. Thanks.

 

Reko,

Good for you for drilling down on this. Truth be told, I'm shot for the day and slightly wine-impaired. So let me just get a bit done here, and follow up tomorrow.

Please see the paragraph in the paper beginning with "A note on measurement accuracy". My crude instrumentation understates large, short-term pressure transitions. What I measured at ~1340 PSI has been measured by others with better equipment to be 1650 PSI. So from there we have to think about resolution (ability to distinguish a difference between two measured quantities) v. absolute accuracy.

More tomorrow. G'night.

 

i like the term, will have to use it from now on

Well, your paper does say that if the system does not work with engine off, then engine on should be tried and if successful that how it should be operated. Based on the numbers in the previous posts, there is still considerable reduction in pressure as compared to no resistor / engine off so that is my plan.

tensioners next, that is a bit more involved...

 

Reko,

OK, if you're comfortable I won't go on and on here. Just this:

My measurements at 13.5 volts and at 12 volts are understated by sluggish instruments. At 13.5 volts this error is about -300 PSI (known by comparison with more accurate measurement by others). At 12 volts, estimated error is about - 250 PSI, so the observed 1200 PSI there is probably more like 1450.

Why does this large error go away at lower voltage? Two reasons: first, the height of the pressure spike itself is lower, but more importantly ... latch closure is slower there and the instruments are able to keep up with the pressure transitions.

----------------

Separate topic: a link posted yesterday in another thread in turn links to the relief valve vendor's site, where the voltage reduction system is inaccurately described and criticized. I would ask anyone encountering that criticism to also see the response at www.scorekeeper.com/jaguar/jaguar01.htm

 

Dennis, after a long delay I have finally installed a single-resistor setup in my 1999 XK8, per your design. Having once roomed with a "Double-E" and having kept up with all the chit-chat on this thread, I was so confident that all would work beautifully, I decided to skip a trial setup and proceeded directly to the fancy "deluxe" installation with custom brackets, connectors, clips, et al.

Alas, I was mistaken. Engine-on "up" and "dn" work only 4 and 3 seconds slower than OEM, respectively, but there's a series of high pitched complaint noises coming from the pump, particularly on the up - something like tranny gears crunching when you don't quite get into gear or when you try to start an engine that's already running. Engine-off up time is 11 seconds longer than OEM but fails to fully complete latch closure. Engine-off dn fails to open the latch - total bust. On the good side, the windows work very well and I still think your idea is an excellent approach.

Clearly, my application is struggling with the lowered voltage and a tweak is required. Perhaps its the gummed-up joints, a shrunken top, thick fluid, or bad karma, who knows. I used aged but cleaned connectors crimped and soldered onto 14ga wire because that's all I had handy with black and white insulation, but I doubt that's the issue. For now, I think that the voltage reduction might be too great for my system. Sooooooo, the question is: can I reach a compromise wherein I take on a little higher "green waterfall" risk with a lower voltage reduction? That is, swap out the resistor for another value?? If so, what would you recommend??

Oh and by the way, my !#$%* trunk lites stopped working again, even though I didn't touch them except for the battery disconnect. Bummer of a day - woe is me. Hope you've got a terrific thought to recoup my day !!

 

Not meaning to stir the pot here but this could be a situation where you may want to consider the other solution.


Doug

 

Boris,

Does your '99 have the green hydraulic fluid? The '99 MY was supposed to have moved away from the old yellow version but no telling, from here, exactly when your car was assembled.

The yellow stuff was supposed to be flushed and replaced the green Pentosin fluid per the attached TSB.

It would help if you would put your model year in your signature.

 

Boris,

Ugh. Sorry to hear. With a little luck, we can sort this out quickly.

Please check these things:
- fliud level in pump reservoir normal
- manual valve on pump body fully closed
- resistor circuit integrity; connectors fully closed, inspect for cold joints
- latch cleanliness and lubrication (just a quick look something obvious, for now).

First priority here is "do no harm" so please don't let the system keep trying it it gets stuck at some point. Let's abandon any attempt at engine-off operation, for now at least.

When does the unusual pump noise occur ... while the top is raising, or as the latch is closing? My first thought is low fluid, but I'm thinking you've already looked for that. Any chance you're still running the old type of Pentosin ("7", I think)? To my knowledge, nobody has tried voltage reduction with that.

Yes, for sure if your system needs more pressure than what's been encountered before, a lower resistance could be used. If we end up going there, before commiting to a value, we can test by clipping a second resistor in parallel with the 0.2 ohm already there. 1.0 ohm in parallel, giving us ~ 0.16 ohms overall, would be a good first test.

Let us know about the checks above, please.

Edit: just noticed, I don't see a resistor value in your post. 0.2 ohm, 100 watts or higher, right?

 

Hmmmmm I don't know what happened here, my last response seems to have disappeared. It was: 1) GREEN fluid level is good, 2) manual valve is shut and tight, 3) continuity on connections is good but I haven't checked for amps et al, 4) latch cleaned at last year's green waterfall event, 5) and resistor is 0.2 ohm/100watt from Newark.

I'm in a family crunch and have had to leave the problem for a while. As soon as I get back to it - next week I hope - I'll post a follow-up with my resolution or another cry for help. Thanks for all the help to date.

 

I just got an alert that my credit card was used to make purchases all over the US. The card company told me it was after my purchase of the resistor from Newark. Any one else have same event?

 

You are not alone. My card was used to purchase a FEW big screen TV along with DVD, WII and a few other things on the west coast and I live on the east coast. Depending on the card company you may not be responsible for the charges, I was not responsible for ($4000.00) the first time & ($3000.00) the second time. Call the credit card company and they will take it from there. This is the very reason I do not use a Debit card. Good Luck and you will be fine.. No need to sell your first born to pay for it.

 

I hope you have notified Newark about this!!

 

The credit card company will take care of notifications. In most cases they know who it is.

 

Boris,

First things first: I hope the family situation resolves itself for you.

Did you order on-line from Newark? They say industrial sites are a preferred hack because the buyers are less likely to be looking at their card activity day to day. Almost certain you'll have no $$ loss; it's just the hastle of getting a new card.

I don't have an immediate idea on the pump. You've covered all the stuff that led to prior problems. If you have a voltmeter, when time permits, please do a quick voltage measurement across the resistor during a raise-top operation. The number of interest is the peak at the close-latch operation. This will come and go pretty quickly, so keep a close eye. (This is a test for the right value of resistor; always a chance they sent you a bad one, and measuring 0.2 ohms is not so easy to measure directly.)

Good luck with all the stuff on your plate.

 

Boy, this is really nice of you guys to reply - feels like family. Anyway, first the top issue, then the credit card affair, and now my wife repositioned her ankle next to the knee and broke a few bones in the process. As Welk used to say, "wunnerful, wunnerful, wunnerful !!" Oh, and I can't find a brake booster off a Volvo P1800 for the life of me. I just love retirement.

The Jag's top is in good hands (you guys) so it can wait a while, the card company was super and said I'll have a new card delivered tomorrow a.m. at no cost whatsoever, and being chief cook, bottle-washer, errand runner, and nanny will be a fun change and respite. Wife's just fine by the way - nice doctors, nice cast, and she's taken a nice attitude about her new "condition."

As a question, should we ask how many members got card info taken and let Newark know?? Customer complaints might be more effective than standard card company notices to them?

 

I am guessing your credit card company is making those calls for you...they don't like to lose money. An email to their customer support might be good, just in case there are details wtih your transaction...time, date, etc that the credit card company might not share. If I were retired in San Fran, I'd be golfing alot, taking pictures, and driving around permanently with the top down. mmmmm, nice weather....

 

Ta Dah !! Finaaly got the top working as it should. How ?? I took it to the friendly corner Jag shop and there was told (with a slight grin and wink) that it is customary to connect the wires in black to black and white to white fashion. Who knew Brits are so into customs and traditions? I can still sense the hysterical laughter.

As we progress into spring and gain a credible log, I'll report on how well all works. Thanks to all for your help and to the Li'l Jag Shop for quickly catching my little faux pas.

 

If anyone else wants to do the voltage reduction fix, I'm now selling a complete harness that you can simply plug in. There is no need to cut, solder, and crimp wires. Here's what you get:

This pic shows the complete harness. I left the wires long enough so that you can mount it on the top of the metal rack that holds the pump if you want. Or, you can just fold the wires over and zip tie it to the existing harness. Most wire insulation is rated for at least 500 degrees Fahrenheit, so you're not going to melt the wiring.



And here's a closeup of the connectors. They match the existing connectors perfectly. Thanks go to reko19 for finding those.



I'll also throw in a couple of zip ties so you can tie it down somewhere. You don't want it rattling around back there. I'll be uploading a video shortly which shows how easy it is to install. The cost for the whole resistor harness assembly is $20 which includes shipping to the US. If you want it shipped outside of the US then let me know and I'll figure out how much shipping costs to your country.

By the way, all connections are SOLDERED so they will not come apart. On the resistor itself the connections are soldered then shrink-wrapped to prevent the solder joint from shorting out on something in the trunk. The pins on these connectors are very tight, so you might want to slide the male and female bits together a few times before clicking them down tight.

Just PM me your address and I'll PM you my paypal address. If you don't do paypal you can just tape a $20 bill to the passenger side visor on a 2005+ S-Type R and ship the entire thing to North Carolina. OK, fine... just stick it in an envelope. I accept cash.