E type ( XK-E ) 1961 - 1975

Many questions on 68 2+2 restore

 
  #41  
Old 12-25-2018, 08:16 PM
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I am no expert on this and am reporting what was said a few years ago on the JCNA forum. The frames were brazed in the factory including the main engine and bonnet support rails. If damaged or rusted, the repairs consist or replacement. Left and right subframes and the window frame are available at unpleasant expense. Perhaps the radiator support is steel. Worst case it is now brittle and may fracture but you can worry about the repair then. Best case, nothing happens. My caution is to avoid further welding of frame members without more research. Search the JCNA forum archives. Merry Christmas.
 
  #42  
Old 12-27-2018, 01:15 AM
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If the bonnet clears the radiator then all is well. It's below the height of the alternator which sits up high so there's a fair chance that it will be okay.

A general plan is to get the car running, fuel system and cooling system working well and upgrade the ignition system. But I'm curious about something. The twin carburetor stranglebergs kind of bother me a bit because they are 1.75 inch in diameter at the throttle plate but some of the openings in the intake are two inches with the soacer and the air horbs stepped down to 1.75 inches, leading me to believe that twin two inch diameter carburetors would work great and would provide approximately 30% greater throttle plate area. One idea I had was to use twin Su carburetors. Although not as powerful as triple carburetors, it would be a good median between the choked off zenith's and the triple carburetor set up from the older Jaguars. Has anyone put twin 2 in Su carburetors on a Stromberg manifold?
 
  #43  
Old 12-27-2018, 06:31 PM
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I've seen them brazed with lower heat, but recommend the expensive replacement as now they may be brittle and cause more serious damage on an accidental parking bump.
 
  #44  
Old 12-27-2018, 07:48 PM
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Has anyone put twin 2 in Su carburetors on a Stromberg manifold?

You May want to call Joe Curto on Twin 2" SUs. His Web site: Has a reference to a Jaguar XKE Series 2 - SU HIF44 Custom Conversion
Phone Number: (718) 762-7878 FAX NUMBER: (718) 762-6287 [email protected]: [email protected]
Joe Helped me get "Jet and Needle" set up correct for Triple CD175 Stromberg setup; if you have a first off conversion, there will be a lot of trial and error to get a satisfactory setup. Issues: Choke, Throttle linkage, Auto transmission kick linkage, Fuel jet size and Needle profile for entire RPM range, FWD carburetor hood clearance (SUHD8 issue maybe?) Rgds David
 
  #45  
Old 12-28-2018, 07:20 AM
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Good idea regarding contacting Joe. I suppose I'm putting the cart before the horse a little bit because my real goal right now is to get a good running reliable car and then do some more extensive improvements. I can't seem to help myself though.
 
  #46  
Old 12-28-2018, 09:46 PM
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" I can't seem to help myself though."
I know what you mean!!!!... you should see my list of Jaguar projects over the years, but its a lot of fun checking them out, even if you do something else in the end. Its what having a Jaguar without a trailer to move it is all about. Rgds David
 
  #47  
Old 12-28-2018, 09:57 PM
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David, how right you are. My belief is when I buy a car, I want to make it mine. As far as appearance, there are not a whole lot of options. But regarding performance, that's where there are more options to make the car improved. Anyone can throw on a set of Weber carburetors with a spare few thousand dollars. Same for the Triple carbs. But to make an improvement for a few hundred dollars and some creativity is what I enjoy.

update on the cooling system... I discovered that the thermostat cover developed a hole in it even though it just looked somewhat eroded. Of course I replaced it and the new cover is actually finished very nicely in a mirror finish.



 
  #48  
Old 12-30-2018, 07:41 PM
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Has anyone put twin 2 in Su carburetors on a Stromberg manifold?
You May want to call Joe Curto on Twin 2" SUs. His Web site: Has a reference to a Jaguar XKE Series 2 - SU HIF44 Custom Conversion
You may want to discuss air-filters and intake runner length with Joe on using the SU HIF44 carb's.

Other Members have mentioned changing the air intake system from Jaguar OEM spec, has often cause lower performance!!!
If your new filters attach directly to the back of the carb, you have lost ~ 3 inches of intake runner, which can shift power/torque curve away from optimum, which is problematic for an original Automatic-Smog'd-engine. I did all the complicated air flow calculations for my Tri-Stromberg configuration, and found the filter inlet should be 17-19 inches from the intake valve; so I added a 2" runner before the filter inlet, would have added 3", but did not have hood clearance on FWD filter. The 3 filters combined had 30% more area the the Jaguar filter in the CAN, so felt the new K&N filters would not reduce intake efficiency efficiency.
"I am thinking" you will need two 3+" air horns behind the 2" SUs to get good flow into existing manifold??? (Custom filter installation probably needed, but you should not have a clearance problem). Rgds
David
 
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  #49  
Old 01-07-2019, 12:07 AM
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I made I made some tremendous progress the last few days. A friend of mine who is a welder and fabricator fix the lower radiator support bracket. Initially he welded the missing piece but the problem was the bracket was too high and the radiator was contacting the bonnet. He cut off the original bracket that was welded on one side and smashed upward on the other side and fabricated a steel cradle that dropped the radiator down a little over an inch to the proper height so that it cleared the bonnet. The Cradle protects the bottom of the radiator and keeps it solidly supported. I can even use the factory Hardware to mount it to the bracket. So I hooked up the cooling system which included all new coolant hoses and automatic transmission hose and filled it up with water just to make sure it didn't leak. I started up the car and ran it for a while and discovered one of the lower radiator hose clamps needed some tightening. The next day I tightened the hose clamp and the cooling system was completely sealed and pressurized and ran beautifully. The needle never got more than halfway on the gauge and the cooling system did not boil over.

I decided to take the car on its maiden voyage on the street just to see if it would drive and I did that. A videotape the experience and recorded it on YouTube at the following link:

https://youtu.be/PFV9KguxmHw

The tires are decades old and I'm going to have to obviously replace them. I would like to put tubeless modern radios on it but I'm not sure how to proceed. I've read many different opinions on the kind of tires that go on the car. The 185 tires seem very skinny but anything wider seems to affect the handling and even contacting the bump stops. Also the Tubed vintage tires are quite expensive for such small tires. Any thoughts on tires?


 

Last edited by DeusExMaxima; 01-07-2019 at 12:12 AM.
  #50  
Old 01-10-2019, 04:54 PM
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The tires are decades old and I'm going to have to obviously replace them. I would like to put tubeless modern radios on it but I'm not sure how to proceed. I've read many different opinions on the kind of tires that go on the car. The 185 tires seem very skinny but anything wider seems to affect the handling and even contacting the bump stops. Also the Tubed vintage tires are quite expensive for such small tires. Any thoughts on tires?

I was able to get 195/75/15s in the 90's and even put a 205/70/15 on back, but was never satisfied, so just went with Coker 185/15 two at a time putting new ones up front. New 185/15 tires are modern construction and are not a poor choice other than expense. Only way to go tubeless is new rims.

Make sure you have some short and long spokes, spoke nuts and 2" tire tape (not duct tape) to protect your new tubes from spokes. If you tap the spokes with a 1/2" box wrench you will hear a tone from good spokes and a flat dud from bad ones, with rubber off you can tighten nuts till tone matches the adjacent spoke. You will want to spray/soak spoke nuts with WD40 to loosen them before tightening. I always had one or two broken spokes at tire change. Most national tire stores will not touch a tire with spoke'd rims, you will need to find an independent that will be willing to put on new tubes and tires. He will appreciate it, if you bring the wheels in off the car. You need two trips, demount rubber, clean/de-rust rims & fixes spokes yours self, the bring them back when ready for new tires and balancing. When cleaning grease from inside of rims, you will want to clean especially around the spoke buttons, then seal well around the spoke buttons with oil resistant RTV from the inside.This will keep grease from leaking out on to your spokes. Before remounting wheel, clean/de-rust the splines on the axle and re-lube. This is probably a good time to remove front wheel bearing for inspection, re-lube or replace. Service rear wheel cavity with bearing grease. Spare tire should be considered a get you home tire, and can be the best of what you have now plus new tube. Once again, with spare tire out you will want to knock down any corrosion you find in tire well with "Kill Primer" etc, until you are into full body restoration.

You May want to start a new thread just on the tire options from other members to get more recent experience from field. Rgds David
 
  #51  
Old 01-10-2019, 05:19 PM
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Thanks for the great info. I saw a few threads on tires and I know that is a whole topic in and of itself. If you ask 10 people tire advice, you get 15 opinions. I ended up getting 205 70 15 Cooper Evolution tires. The vintage 185 70 15 tires seemed outrageously priced compared to similar sizes with no difference in quality. It seems the concours guys want those tires and are willing to pay for them. Im not one of those guys. The rims seem in good shape with very little corrosion; just a lot of dirt and grime. I have been cleaning the rims, and boy is that a tough job!!! Also, it is a good time to inspect the hub, rotor, caliper and clean and/or grease the fittings and everything there. I heard that anti seize is good to use on the splines.

Regarding wheel bearings, its probably a good idea to replace them, although I didnt notice and noise or any play in them. My plan is to get the car driveable and then go after the stuff that could leave me stranded. I can do most, if not all, the work myself so I can stretch my budget a long way.

The next round will be replacing points/condensor with electronic unit, ignition wires, and spark plugs. Also, brake caliper rebuilds are in order as well. What about brake master cylinder - replace or rebuild or leave it alone ()?
 
  #52  
Old 01-10-2019, 10:38 PM
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What about brake master cylinder - replace or rebuild or leave it alone ()?

Take it apart if there is no corrosion, simply rebuild with new seal kit. If you find corrosion get a new one.
 
  #53  
Old 01-11-2019, 12:14 AM
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Another thought is wheel alignment with the new tires, you need to check around for a shop with older equipment. The new computerized racks do not have older jaguars in their program file, I found a later model jaguar with same specs as my 84XJ6 that worked out, other wise the shop did not want to do the alignment. With the damage to your radiator mount possibly from road debris, checking toe-in once new tires are on, is a good idea. Full alignment can wait until you replace all the bushings & Ball joints in the front end. Look for complete front end suspension rebuild kits on sale, while you wait for convenient time to do the front end work; much cheaper than individual kits. (New poly-bushes, much better than OEM rubber)
 
  #54  
Old 01-18-2019, 07:33 AM
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Before I tackle the other issues of the car, I'm going to need to address the cooling system still. I've read the numerous Discussions about overheating issues for these cars.

Just to recap what I have done so far to the cooling system, the radiator was taken apart and rodded out so it should be flowing 100%. I replaced the thermostat, both thermostat housing covers, the water pump, and all the hoses. I also bypassed the heater core until I can repair the interior pipes. I have about a 50/50 mixture of coolant and distilled water. I also have a new radiator cap which is the blank cap and also a new expansion tank pressurized cap which is a 13-pound cap. Expansion tank is filled about halfway. Also when I'm topping off the radiator, I massage the upper radiator hose to try to get rid of air bubbles. I also put some water wetter in.

I have foam air filters installed rather than the factory paint can and triangle filter canister

Both fans come on and seem to stay on a long time. When the car is sitting in the driveway and idling or revving up to 2000 rpms or so the car does not seem to boil over or get overheated. Gauge reads in the middle. As soon as I take it out on the road after it's been warmed up, it starts spurting Steam out of the expansion tank. Gauge reads middle or slightly more, but in NORMAL range.

Here is my plan:

Replace ignition wires with new ones. The old ones are original to the car and cracked although the car seems to run smooth. I plan to check the timing to make sure not only the initial timing is accurate, but the mechanical advance works also.

I plan to put a block of foam on top of the radiator and to try to seal the sides as well. I also plan to reinstall the lower filler panel as I have heard that the radiator must be sealed all around to work efficiently in drawing air. by the way I also have the air conditioner condenser removed which should have improved airflow.

The reason I do not believe that a better cooling fan would work is because the car does not seem to overheat when just sitting in my driveway but rather fairly soon after driving the car.

Suggestions / thoughts?
 

Last edited by DeusExMaxima; 01-18-2019 at 07:35 AM.
  #55  
Old 01-18-2019, 04:43 PM
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The reason I do not believe that a better cooling fan would work is because the car does not seem to overheat when just sitting in my driveway but rather fairly soon after driving the car.
Suggestions / thoughts?
Two thoughts: The quicker this happens while going from idle to driving, leads me to think number one is most likely.

1. After clean-out of cooling system you have a small pin hole leak in cylinder head gasket into the cooling system, that doesn't manifest until you start getting higher cylinder head pressures, when going from idle to driving?? Pull plugs and see if any spark plug jumps out as having fouling. Being unable to get air out of upper radiator hose could be an indication of cylinder pressure getting into cooling system. Your radiator shop can confirm this with a pressure test rig. You may get O'Reilly Auto to loan you one for free.

2. I was worried when you said the distributor had a vacuum advance, but it was not hooked up. Your model had mechanical advance only in California. The timing and mechanical advance ranges are quiet different for the Lucas vacuum advance and the mechanical advance only distributors. Retarded or advanced timing under power could be the source of over heating while driving. I can envision this set up being miss-timed to get good idle and then would be way off at power??? You may want to install the carburetor vacuum fitting as you discussed earlier and hook up vacuum advance on current distributor. Set timing as you would for a XKE S1 with OEM vacuum advance distributor. When you check timing with a helper (as you are lying on your back under the car), you should be able to confirm that both vacuum advance and mechanical advance are working.
---- Since this distributor was there, you may want to check manifold to see if some one installed a fitting there. (Some people prefer to get manifold pressure to their distributor) if it is open, you will have a leaner mixture.-----
 

Last edited by David84XJ6; 01-18-2019 at 05:01 PM. Reason: info clarification
  #56  
Old 01-18-2019, 11:42 PM
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This was from a very old post that I saved. you may want to clean distributor and put mirror down there and see what part number you have. If it is vacuum retard model, that maybe why it is disconnected???? See attachments Pertronix Distributors: Vacuum advance curve is on one sheet, the Mechanical advance only curve is on other.
Rgds David

Stock Distributors for XKe S1 & S2
At least four different distributors were used as near as I can tell:
3.8 and early 4.2L: Lucas DMBZ6A # 40617A, Triple SUs, ported vacuum source.
Non-USA Series 2: Lucas 22D6 # 41060A . Triple SUs ported vacuum source.
Static: 10 DBTDC, 9:1 CR


USA/Canada Series 1.5 & 2:: Lucas 22D6 # 41207A. No advance capsule. Used up to engine #7R7973 and #7R38579 in the 2+2, i.e. roughly mid-October 1969. The data for this is shown on page 389 of Brooklands, and is given as crank advance, including static timing, as measured with the engine running.
Static: 5 DBTDC, 9:1 CR

After this Lucas # 41322A with a vacuum retard was used. Manifold vacuum used. The data for this one is given in the Emissions Manual.
Static: 10 DBTDC

"I am not sure why anyone would want to use the data for the US Series 2 distributors anyways. Looking at the curves I plotted the 41207 used in 68-69 stands out like a sore thumb; too much total advance. The best advance curve in my opinion is the one for the 40617A "!!!! (opinon of original poster, Andy Blackley)
 
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  #57  
Old 01-23-2019, 05:11 PM
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I had been working away on the car last week through the long weekend but took a few days off. I put some foam on top of the radiator and the sides (pipe insulation from home depot). It seems to seal the gaps between the radiator and the bonnet fairly nicely. I added water wetter and topped off the coolant and filled the expansion tank about half way. I put a better heater bypass hose so it doesnt have a kink like the first one I had on. Ambient temperature was about 60 degrees F.

I look at my watch to see how long it would take the car to overheat when driving. Here are my observations:

It took a few minutes for the gauge to register and the needle rose up slowly. It never got more than halfway as I drove around in the city for about 10 minutes. My speed varied from about 40 mph to sitting at stoplights. After another 5 minutes, or 15 minutes total I pulled in my driveway and the car had pressurized steam coming out the expansion tank overflow plus some liquid.

I have determined some things. The reason I keep having to top off the cooling system is that the coolant mixture is blowing out the expansion tank. The fans are operating but once they come on, they dont seem to turn off for a while. I put my face in front of the bonnet opening with the fans on and I feel the fans drawing air into the opening. I feel the hot air coming out the vents. I removed the spark plugs and #2 appears to be fouled and #4 appears lighter than #1,3,5,6, which are tan. Peering into the combustion chamber with a flashlight and the pistons near the top, all appear to have a black carbon appearance, but not chunky carbon. Remember, the engine was rebuilt in 1985 and has only been driven maybe 80 miles since then. The distributor is a Lucas 41207A with the number 568 below it, presumably meaning May 1968? It has a vacuum advance on it and it functions. I thought the 41207A was not supposed to have a vacuum advance.

The car was purchased in Pennsylvania so its not a California car, if that makes a difference. (Our family moved to Calif from PA in 1972)

The spark plug wires are cracked and broken yet the car runs smoothly. I measured the resistance in each ignition wire and some of them had broken continuity. I bought a Pertronix distributor and new ignition wires and plugs (NGK BPR6ES). They didnt have the matching coil but that is on its way. When I tired to install the dizzy, it would not go in. Very long story short, the black O ring on the new dizzy was not correct. I bought the correct Jaguar O ring and the dizzy went right in. Thats where I left off.

Questions:

Would the heater bypass cause the car to run hot? Maybe the heater circuit provides extra necessary cooling?
Can improper ignition timing really cause severe overheating?
Can broken ignition wires cause overheating?
Based on my observations, is the head gasket likely intact?
Could the cooling passages contain scales or sediment thus causing overheating?
Can I safely rule out replacing the fans since car overheated when driving?
 
  #58  
Old 01-24-2019, 08:20 PM
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Would the heater bypass cause the car to run hot? Maybe the heater circuit provides extra necessary cooling?
Should not effect cooling for the driving you were doing, around town
Can improper ignition timing really cause severe overheating?
For sustained high speed freeway driving, I don't think you would see it for short trip around town you mentioned
Can broken ignition wires cause overheating?
I don't think so, but it could be a factor on the # 2 and #4 spark plug conditions
Based on my observations, is the head gasket likely intact?
I still think you may have pin hole leak of combustion pressure in to cooling system, probably from # 2 cylinder
Could the cooling passages contain scales or sediment thus causing overheating?
Since you have a good clean radiator, then yes, there may still deposits in cylinder head, but the venting of overflow tank at low speed driving, should not occur so quickly from just an over-heated system do to poor cooling in the cylinder-head.
Can I safely rule out replacing the fans since car overheated when driving?
Yes I think you can rule out the fans, if this was summer weather you could assume that the fans might be challenged a bit, but not now.

The venting of the overflow, means you have a system pressure that is higher than the 13 PSI cap. To get that from overheating, you have to have boiling water in the system, or from combustion gases getting into the cooling system. You have new water pump, so you can assume good flow from radiator to engine.

Next time you got out for a similar drive, take out the thermostat, and see if better flow gives you more time before the venting of the overflow tank starts.
If you plan to try to flush scale from with chemicals again, it can't hurt, other than changing your cooling fluid again. Try this first if you are planning to re-flush: get one of the name brand cylinder-head gasket sealers ~ $30- that mix with anti-freeze and put into the system as directed. I suggest in addition, leave #2 spark plug out, but hooked up to ignition wire and secured/grounded in cylinder head cavity so it can fire properly, but away from spark plug hole; idle for 15-20 minutes let cool a few hours, put back spark plug and drive around a few times like you have been (under 40 MPH), watching times , to see if you get a change in the over-flow venting. Rgds David

 
  #59  
Old 01-25-2019, 02:12 AM
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Just a additional thought: the loop by-passing the heater, which I thought would be OK, may be allowing hot water back into engine without going through the radiator. You may want block the out-put from back of intake manifold with a short section of hose with bolt inserted and clamped: same with return tube; It could be that simple??? David
 
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Old 01-25-2019, 06:22 PM
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Is the fan pulling in the right direction?
 

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