I have a 2017 F-Type SVR that is now 2 years and 2 months old with 9,036 miles on it. About a 1,000 of those miles is spirited back road driving, the rest is daily style driving, road trip driving, and some brisk highway driving. Braking still is usually average, possibly a bit more moderate for those spirited parts, but certainly not aggressive. Car has always been babied. It gets trailered to shows and even to dealer for service, washed and detailed regularly, servigad every 6 months, kept and stored in heated and A/C garage, and has never seen snow. I always figured the ceramic pads would need changing around that 50% wear point, but was shocked to learn that my rear rotors are nearly shot, and the front ones are not too far behind. Now the dealer wants to charge me $20k+ to replace them. I picked the carbon ceramics when I ordered the car because I liked the diamond-turned rims, and also the dealer said the brakes would last the life of the car provided I stay on top of brake pad changes, plus I only put 4-5k miles on the car a year in the late spring to early fall months. Is that much wear common, or are my brakes defective? What could cause such rapid wear? Does anyone know what the factory thickness is of the pads and rotors? I'm also told you weigh carbon ceramics, not measure them, is this correct? Current measurements listed below.

Pads
Left Front: 10mm
Right Front: 10mm
Left Rear: 8mm
Right Rear: 8mm

Rotors
Left Front: 37.8
Right Front: 37.8
Left Rear: 33.9
Right Rear: 33.9

Any insights on this or information would be much appreciated. Thanks.

 

Carbon ceramic disc should last far far longer, some GT3 guys who don't do too much track work have seen 150k miles from rotors.

On my 911 I only had issues with the front ceramics after around ten plus track days where some sessions were 40 minutes long which was simply too long for any car, so the issue I had is the front ceramics de-laminated resulted in the surface been rough which in short meant pads were only last 1-2k miles as the disc had got rough, eventually they would of just exploded, as such the disc were replaced by myself and lucky for under $5000 due to finding a pair of take off items.

Can you take some close up pictures of your disc and post them on forum, particular the shot rears, because generally it is very easy to tell just by looking at ceramics if they have an issue and to the touch they should feel super smooth and shiny, no pitting or roughness.

Yes weight is correct way of measuring them, are you still on original pads?

 

Welcome to the forum.

There is a detailed handbook that the dealers have which outlines the criteria for brake wear on the carbon ceramic rotors.

The major defining wear indication is the weight of the rotor, not the thickness.
Engraved on the bell of each rotor is a pair of weights in grams. New weight, and minimum weight.
If the weight of the rotor goes below the minimum, then it must be replaced.



There are also dozens of graphics and photo's showing examples of wear and damage for visual inspection...

The minimum thickness is also defined, but like i said not the main criteria.

Fronts 38mm +/- 0.1mm, max allowable wear 0.5mm
Rears 34mm, +/-0.1mm, max allowable wear 0.5mm

But you're far more likely to reach the minimum weight before the minimum thickness....

Ask the dealer for a copy of the Carbon Ceramic Brakes handbook, it explains everything...

 

My copy of the F-Type V6 Workshop Manual gives the specs for the CCM front pads and rotors but not for the rears, go figure!
Front pads - new 14.25 mm thick, minimum 3 mm.
Front rotors - new 38 mm thick, minimum 37.5 mm.
I suspect the rear specs would be similar just scaled down a little.
It looks like the rotors are about half worn but still within spec and the pads are about 1/3 worn and way within spec.
I think the dealer may be having a lend of you and looking for some easy money.

 

I suspect this is your explanation - dealer sees someone trailer the car in for service, decide this is a good opportunity to get some money from a well-off customer that cares, and suggests unnecessary and expensive service.

 

And $20K+ for brakes (even for CCM) seems somewhat excessive. If they really are gone I would be removing the CCM and installing regular brakes and never look back.

 

Front Rotors. Look worn a bit, but still feel relatively smooth.


Rear Rotors. Look new to me and also feel smooth.

 

thanks for all the info. After calling every dealership in Ohio yesterday, I can confirm the pad thickness for the fronts is 12mm and rears are 10mm. The rotor size is still out, but looks like the fronts are 38mm and the rears are 34mm like you stated. Every dealer I talked to in does not even have the tools for weighing carbon ceramics, so they can only measure them. I have read they you can measure them but weighing is more accurate than measuring. Seems odd that Jaguar sells Carbon Ceramics, but none of their certified service centers are equipped to properly inspect and service them. Regardless a few of the dealers thought that was odd for the amount of wear. So, I do have an appointment to take the car in Monday and have the brakes taken off, cleaned, and fully inspected. I even put a call into corporate about it which was a waste of time. Here are the pics of the rotors. First 2 are the fronts, last 2 are the rears.

 

Its 18k for the pads and rotors, and another 1-2k for labor. It is outrageous. And might end up switching to steels. I am looking into a British company, called ST, that does what they call next generation CCM's for supercars and hypercars compared to what Brembo makes. Their brakes can be refurbished up to 3 times after wear, are stronger, lighter, even filter heat better. They don't make a set for the F-Type yet, but trying to see if they will. They charge about 13k for their entire braking system. Koenigsegg uses them, and Aston is going to put them on the Valkyrie as well. They are popular on Porsche's and Ferrari's too. If I'm going to be out the money, it would be nice to have something better than what Brembo is currently offering.

 

I have found that at least for the Carbon Ceramics the front pads are 12mm and the rear pads are 10mm. The front rotors appear to be 38mm, but the rears are looking to be 34mm. Other dealers thought that wear was oddly excessive and suggested doing a full brake inspection, which is what will be done on Monday. My dealer's service department has been in the steady decline for the last 2 years. Frankly after this I'm done with them. Next Jag is coming from a different dealer. I have pics of the rotors attached to some of the replies here. You can take a look.

 

I've bought an R and my SVR from them. Spent a lot on accessories, and had my cars serviced there for 3 years now. But most of the great sales team is gone, the service department is in the crapper, and I wouldn't be surprised if they have taken advantage of me. Finding out they haven't been tracking the rotor wear, and only saved pad measurements from this years made me nearly exploded in the service managers office since they know I wanted them to keep track of them. Now this with the excessive wear issue. I've had it with them. My next Jag will not be coming from them.

 

Those disc look absolutely fine from a visual inspection, I'd simply tell them to take a running jump and forget about it.

 

 

I did exchange some not so kind words with the service manager at the dealer, and even reporting the poor service to corporate. Jag USA needs to start having more oversight on their certified dealers.

 

I still love Jaguar, but they need to make some big changes when it comes to service, and the quality of their products. I do have alternatives lined up just in case. I always do. McLaren and Aston Martin are my go to alternatives when Jag completely let's me down.

 

Bradley, I posted about this on our club's Facebook page. Please take a look at it and I also have one of the top execs at JLR up to speed. You have my phone #.

 

Thanks. I will check over there.

 

This week I took my SVR with Ceramic brakes to Jaguar in the US because the BREAKE SENSOR was on. They inspected and told me that have to change Pads and front rotors, quote me 12,000 USD (the reason they told me is that every time they change break pads, they change rotors, is their policy). So took my car out of them and take it to another car shop with experience in carbon ceramic, and told me that rotors are ok and shouldnt be changed, only front pads.

F-Type 2017 SVR 15,000 miles on it.

 

15K on the front pads is nearly unheard of unless you track the car most of the time. And you do NOT need to change the rotors because of a pads swap.

 

This has been discussed to death on many forums, but it is standard JLR dealership practice to advise the client "whenever you renew the pads you must also renew the rotors". Obviously not just the CCM brakes but all JLR brakes.
The standard "reason" proffered by the dealership is "for optimal braking performance the pads and rotors must be matched and properly bedded in and that can only be done with new rotors, there is a risk that putting new pads on old rotors will result in sub-standard performance".
I have always called BS on this and I have fitted new pads to used rotors so many times on my Jags I have lost count, and never had a single problem with the brakes.
In general, at least for the OEM steel brakes and pads, one set of rotors will last for two sets of pads before the rotors reach the specified minimum thickness (which is a whopping 2 mm less than new!).
It is different for the CCM brakes, from memory the pads wear 10 times quicker than the rotors and the rotors are essentially "for life".