Two weeks ago I leased a 2016 F-Type S 6MT, and was quite pleased with the lease terms. A few days ago I received a phone call from the finance manager stating that a document "printed incorrectly" (the implication being that it was illegible or whatever) and simply needed to be re-signed.

Today I receive the document, and it turns out it's the full lease agreement, and it turns out they're attempting to increase the excess mileage charge from $0.20/mile to $0.25/mile. Having compared the old agreement and the new agreement very closely several times, that's the only difference.

I've never had a dealership (or any entity really) attempt to change terms after the fact, and as far as I know the signatures on such a document are binding in both directions. Anyone have a more educated opinion on this before I go in and call them on their BS?

 

may just be an oversight on their part - so wouldn't go in full guns blazing (just yet)

 

Here's an interesting article that is very similar to your experience:


When the Dealership Steals Back the Car They Just Sold You


I too believe this is a bit fraudulent, however whomever asked you to re-sign may not know that the contract was binding, or they're just betting on you accepting their mistake and signing even though you don't have to. However, I would under no circumstances sign that document.

You may want to contact the author of this article (Steve Lehto). While he is a Michigan lawyer, he does great things for the automotive community and may be willing to help you out/give you helpful advice.

 

I assume that at this point you have the car and a lease agreement executed by both you and the dealer. When you did the deal, did the dealer represent to you what the mileage charge would be before printing the agreement? If so, was it the 20 cent figure?


I have not looked at a lease in some time, but I assume that there is a blank space for the charge, which they filled in. That means it is negotiable. However if they told you 25 cents and then made a typo (which I strongly doubt) the lease should be corrected to the agreed amount.


If you understood that the agreement was 20 cents per mile, then as a retired attorney I suggest you call counsel that does consumer fraud work; as recommended in the excellent article linked to the above post. Every state law is different, but they usually provide for treble damages and attorney fees. The law does that to stimulate quick resolution of cases to keep the ultimate cost down. You may find that a quick letter from counsel to the dealer ends the issue. I recommend that you act promptly.

 

I'd just call the dealer and ask if they made a typo on the new paper. After that act accordingly, but don't sign the new agreement until you agree with the dealer.

 

Change the mileage rate back to 20 cents, sign itvandcsendvit back.

 

And what is your advice to him if the dealer comes and repossesses the car?

 

He has a signed contract. Case closed. In any event, the mileage overage may never even become an issue.

 

And under what grounds could they do that? He already has a signed contract AND modifying and initialing the changes is standard contract execution procedure....I do it all the time in my business; if they don't like it, they don't sign it and a discussion ensues.

Dave

 

my .02c ... call a lawyer and dont sign anything

 

The concept is called "self help" and can apply in a variety of circumstances. Whether it would or not in this case is unclear. However you want to approach an issue like this from a position of strength, i.e. with the car in possession. That is why an immediate letter from counsel is appropriate.


I tried case for almost 40 years, including many involving complex contracts. More problems occur from not taking aggressive action when an issue arises than any other action, in my experience.

 

You've got the car, you've got the original document. They need you to sign a new doc. You see a typo...You tell them the new doc is different. What are they saying, sign a new doc that is in their favor? Um, I think not.

You don't need an attorney, council, a mediator, nada.

You need to call them, tell them you're happy to sign the same doc and point out they made a mistake in a figure and have them resend the doc with the correct figure. Whether they are trying to pull a fast one or it was a simple .05c mistake, they know the contract is just that, a contract and what you signed is what the agreement is. Point out the typo and allow them the opportunity to fix it. It actually may just be a typo. I don't see a dealer going through all this hassle and bad faith for a .05c overage fee that may not even be an issue.

Worst case scenario how much more would you owe if you do a say typical over drive? Were talking like what maybe $50 bucks max? Would a dealer lose your business for this nickel trick? Curious to know.

 

Precisely. Penny-wise, pound-foolish.

 

it is very likely a very small amount if it ever does come in to play ... a 10k mile overage, it's the difference of $500.

it's more the principal of the matter ... what if they come back again a week later with another big change that does significantly affect the payments.

i'm also dealing with a 17yr kid who hit my wife's RR this morning and is changing his story with the insurance company and flat out lying about the events ... it would be physically impossible to create the damage by his description of events ... so i don't trust anybody today.

 

Shaun,

Sorry to hear about your wife's car. As long as she is alright that is all that matters. Did the police come and fill out the police report? Shouldn't that give a detailed description of the events that occurred?

 

A number of people here have offered you their opinion as to what to do and what your legal position is. From what I can tell, none of them are attorneys. There are two problems with this. First they are wrong. Second, what they are doing is criminal. They are practicing law without a license. That is a crime in every jurisdiction of this country. Why? To protect innocent people like you from people "like them".


The potential issues you present here are things we learned about in first year contracts class. A signed contract is not ALWAYS the last word. A court can modify or rescind a contract IF SUFFICIENT EVIDENCE IS PRESENTED TO JUSTIFY THAT ACTION.


There are two possible issues here. 1. A clerical error in drafting the document. 2. There was no meeting of the minds.


Apparently those who are so convinced that they know the answer have never heard of these concepts. Without reading the lease and interviewing you I can not begin to tell you if those do or do not apply. That is why I recommend seeking the advice of counsel.

 

Your attempts to censor free discourse disgust me.

 

Yikes. IANAL, but it just seems like common sense to suggest that the OP call them and figure out if a simple mistake was made before trying to bring in the supreme court, no? If it turns out that they're trying to surreptitiously change the terms, then yes, it might make sense to involve counsel.

 

I had a similar situation on a BMW lease a few years ago. All of the terms were agreed to well in advance (before even ordering the car), and were documented in writing via email. When the car arrived, the lease was drafted in accordance with the deal as previously proscribed, and was presumably cross checked by the dealership before presenting it to me for signature. I signed it, they signed it, and I took the car home perfectly happy.

Two weeks(!) later, the dealership called me and said I had to sign a new lease contract because BMW Financial didn't like the deal. They (BMWFS) said I (me, the customer) had cherry picked the best offers and combined them, that I couldn't do that, and they'd repossess the car if I didn't sign a new lease. I responded via the dealer by stating that I had a contract happily signed by me and the dealer that documented a sales price and terms; not really my problem how the dealer and BMWFS did their internal math. That, and how exactly could I be the one responsible for getting BMW's internal policies wrong? I proposed a price as part of the negotiation, and the dealer accepted and used various incentives to get there on their end (i.e. "I'll buy it for X, how you choose to book-keep it doesn't matter so long as my price is still X"). If the math didn't add up for the accountants, that blame would have to rest on the dealership.

In the end (and after a fair amount of conversation and me holding my ground in a polite but firm way), the dealership produced a contract that satisfied BMWFS and kept my payment/out of pocket unchanged. They actually cut me a check for the difference in terms to make that happen. I was disappointed that the dealership ended up having to eat some money on behalf of the parent company, but pleased that they tried to make it right for me.

So my suggestion (as a non-lawyer who doesn't even play one on TV) is to approach this as though the dealer made an error in the new contract. Make them explain to you why the change was necessary (assuming it wasn't an error; if it was an error on the new contract, you're done and happy). And then ask politely if they can do anything to keep the "end of the day" terms of the deal unchanged. Considering that this is a mileage overage charge in question, there's a strong chance it's a clause in the contract that never has to be used.

I would not sue, and frankly I would not pursue legal counsel until you've at least had a friendly conversation with the dealer. Showing up on day 1 with a lawyer will almost certainly cause the dealer to put on their full armor and take away any chance at a low key solution.

 

There you go...Listen to the pro - Sick Rob, and pay an attorney $350 an hour to investigate if the nickel mistake was an oversight or a scheme. Get the dealership on deposition and demand a discovery of the facts to get to the bottom of how that .20 became .25. Do it on principle, that'll teach those car guys a lesson and make the world a better place in the end. In fact, become the martyr for the people and take out a full page ad in the WSJ so the world knows that we're not to be messed with. They're may even be a class action here so we better find out who else has been harmed.

Look we appreciate your vast legal knowledge and aggressive style, Rob, but jeez, why don't you save the Judge Judy for that case that may actually need you, we're thinking this may not happen to be the one.

Common sense would dictate, law degree or not, that his first step to take is to bring the discrepancy to the dealerships' attention so they can simply re-draft the doc to reflect the one he signed. If for some peculiar reason they refuse to cooperate at .20 this time around, then the OP can look into his options, then further, weigh the merits of representation in such a matter.