Let's keep with the car discussion and take the politics elsewhere please.

 

What they said. But ask yourself why you would go into a car forum and talk politics? Don't you want at least a couple of places where you can put all that aside and focus on something that doesn't make you angry? Please help us make this forum a safe place for car lovers, particularly Jaguar lovers, to come and talk about the brand and cars they love leaving their politics, for just this short time, at the door.

 

As to ethanol, I'm shocked to see so many people don't seem to understand the benefits. Ethanol at 85% is 105 octane. It's like race gas for less than 89. Your engines will handle it just fine and they'll run better, faster and cooler. Your fuel trims can adjust 20+% percent in either direction and more than make up for it. It's a great fuel if it was sustainable...

 

Can you cite a source for this? During my own research, I've not found an answer that had any good science behind it. Also, when the ECU switches from E10 to E85, it makes up for the lower energy content by using more of it, so it's not as simple as being cheaper per unit volume. I have a turbo car that gets roughly 30% worse mileage on E85, so unless it's at least 30% cheaper, it's not actually.

 

He's not wrong, but when I was runing E85 on the BMW 335 my calcs were more like 101ish, but it varies a lot more than normal gas.

You also are correct, I saw about 30% more burn, and ended up being more expensive than normal gas, but still a far cry cheaper than buying 100 octane normal gas in California, which I see you are familiar with XD

Here is a calculator I used to use, but again you cant guarantee that E85 is 105 octane at the pump unless you test it. At least, thats what I experienced years ago, maybe something has changed?

https://www.morepowertuning.com/emix

Heres Iowa E85 info, should be similar everywhere:
https://iowarfa.org/ethanol-center/e...ing%20of%2087.

 

Here are some facts:
1. My F-Type (2021) handbook specifies OK to use fuel containing 10% to 15% ethanol.
2. It specifically states to NOT use E85 fuel (aka Flexfuel) which contains between 51 and 85% ethanol
3. It is a scientific fact that fuel containing ethanol has less combustible energy than fuel that does not contain ethanol, the reduction in energy being directly related to the proportion of ethanol as shown in the following article:
https://www.cars.com/articles/anothe...1420663037150/
https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/ethanol_e85.html
Lastly, your political affiliation is irrelavent to this discussion - both parties have endorsed ethanol..
Adding ethanol to gasoline is not good for the environment or mpg.
Interestingly, the article states that EPA mileage specs are actually based on zero ethanol fuel, so are misleading to consumers who are mostly forced to buy gas containing ethanol.
Regarding the environment and food security, raising crops for fuel may be good for farmers but the economics should take into account the impact of fertilizer inputs, planting/harvesting costs, and cost to convert (edible) corn to ethanol.
I am quite sure that the economics or environmental math make no sense whatever and the only possible justifications for ethanol are to make the petroleum supply last longer and as previously stated it does raise the octane rating for poorer quality gasoline..
While ethanol fuel may burn marginally cleaner, how can that help if you need to burn more to go the same distance?

 

Not sure what you want a source for? I'm saying you are getting 105 octane for the price of 89....not whether or not it's a good value to replace dino fuel or anything like that. I'm only concerned with the performance aspect of ethanol....not the financial. And the ecu doesn't switch between e10 and e85. Our cars do not have an ethanol sensor and do not have maps built in to take real advantage of increased ethanol. That's why you tune for it. The base maps are written with e10 in mind and can accommodate higher levels because the injectors are able to spray more fuel (fuel trims) to account for the loss of energy by volume that comes with ethanol. The ecu constantly monitors rich/lean conditions and sprays more or less fuel to keep fuel trims within spec and can adjust +/- 25%, so e15 is fine to run....could probably get way with e25, but it wouldn't be of much benefit without tuning. You'd notice the ecu wouldn't pull timing as quickly in the typical conditions though. I haven't run any logs in the Jag yet but my last car was an Audi ttrs making similar power. It'd pull (in the heat) about 7 degrees of timing on e10 93 but because of the play available in fuel trims you could put in about 4 gals of e85 per tank and the logs would then show 1-3 degrees of timing being pulled. So even without tuning it still helps.

 

That octane rating is what I was asking about for a source. My research some years back found varying estimates, and at that time, the consensus seemed to be that it was more like mid to high 90s. Not saying not to use it, but that it's no like true race gas and to not expect it to have similar results.

 

The octane sticker at Spynx here labels it as 105. I have heard of other places labeling as low as 103 but that's because it's more like e70. If you ever see it at the pump there's a little disclaimer that says it may actually be as low as e70. But that is still triple digit octane. Here's a quick Google blurb:

-The octane rating of pure ethanol is 100. What's interesting is that when ethanol is blended with gasoline, it performs as if its octane rating is 112, making ethanol a very effective octane booster when used in gasoline. High octane is one reason why NASCAR uses ethanol for their high-compression racing engines.

So perhaps that's what you're thinking of, pure ethanol unblended. But e85, which is 85 percent ethanol and 15% gasoline has a real world octane of 105 and is quite impressive. My 2017 Camaro SS has less retard on e85 than ms109. If you have hp tuners suite I can send you some logs showing the benefits vs 93.

Point is, no one who values performance should be upset about e15. You're car can handle it and will be happier for it. It'll burn cooler and pull less timing in certain situations.