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I am sure I'll get flamed for saying this but has anyone else seen the similarities here?
When the 1970 Datsun 240z first came out it was such a beautiful and clean design. Then all the tacky variations soon followed.
Personally, I believe the first Rs were near perfect without the extra side skirts and painted diffuser, then on to the other bits added up to the SVR.
Understanding that manufacturers have to add tidbits to a car to make buying new more attractive than buying a two years old model and all of that, but I truly believe the original Rs are the most attractive and time will prove that out ....
I generally agree with his comments about design.. another one for me, just a personal preference, is that I don't like the pano roof .. I prefer the flow of the regular hardtop. Mine is an Italian R. Red 2015 R.
Don't agree with the comment that the 2015 is difficult to control, although I'm not interested in tracking it .. I suppose thats my general attitude towards the article in that I don't intend to track it and don't care at all what lap times it does.. I just prefer the look and feel of my 2015, along with the sound.
Lawrence.
The original F-Type design was a design masterpiece and therein lies the issue:
It's hard to improve on perfection.
The very essence of the launch design was the minimalism of its lines: a sinuous, prowling, barely restrained elegance that reflected Jaguar's legendary design heritage.
Here's Jaguar's design manager explaining the reason behind the simplicity of the F-Type's minimal lines and its ties to history:
Head designer Ian Callum is quoted as saying a great car should be defined by just 2 or 3 lines. That is one of the philosophies he kept at Aston Martin and also brought into Jaguar when he joined.
Unfortunately, from a commercial perspective Jaguar needs to continue evolving the platform every year to prevent it from getting stale.
This presents a real challenge for the F-Type because it's really hard to tweak a minimalist design without destroying it.
Ian Callum is a personally a fan of american muscle cars, which is not really an aesthetic that works well with Jaguar. He managed to keep that instinct in check while designing the F-Type, but some of that muscle-car DNA seems to have leaked into successive generations of the F-Type.
Since its launch, the F-Type has gotten more squat, the front has gotten more squared off and muscular, and design embellishments like the wider sills have started interfering with and distracting from the simplicity of the original lines. So the F-Type has lost a bit of its signature "Jaguar" feline form in favor of more gimmicky muscularity.
BTW the classic E-Type (which the F-Type is inspired from) suffered from the same issue....it also had a signature minimalism and successive generations diluted the power of the original form. So when Enzo Ferrari called it the most beautiful car ever designed he was referring to the original launch design.
It's easy to say that well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. But I think when one measures the evolution of the design against the key design principles and heritage of Jaguar, I think it's objectively true that the evolution of the design in 2016-17+ has drifted the car away from its original design excellence.
Last edited by schraderade; 07-13-2016 at 07:42 PM.
The original F-Type design was a design masterpiece and therein lies the issue:
It's hard to improve on perfection.
The very essence of the launch design was the minimalism of its lines: a sinuous, prowling, barely restrained elegance that reflected Jaguar's legendary design heritage.
Here's Jaguar's design manager explaining the reason behind the simplicity of the F-Type's minimal lines and its ties to history:
Head designer Ian Callum is quoted as saying a great car should be defined by just 2 or 3 lines. That is one of the philosophies he kept at Aston Martin and also brought into Jaguar when he joined.
Unfortunately, from a commercial perspective Jaguar needs to continue evolving the platform every year to prevent it from getting stale.
This presents a real challenge for the F-Type because it's really hard to tweak a minimalist design without destroying it.
Ian Callum is a personally a fan of american muscle cars, which is not really an aesthetic that works well with Jaguar. He managed to keep that instinct in check while designing the F-Type, but some of that muscle-car DNA seems to have leaked into successive generations of the F-Type.
Since its launch, the F-Type has gotten more squat, the front has gotten more squared off and muscular, and design embellishments like the wider sills have started interfering with and distracting from the simplicity of the original lines. So the F-Type has lost a bit of its signature "Jaguar" feline form in favor of more gimmicky muscularity.
BTW the classic E-Type (which the F-Type is inspired from) suffered from the same issue....it also had a signature minimalism and successive generations diluted the power of the original form. So when Enzo Ferrari called it the most beautiful car ever designed he was referring to the original launch design.
It's easy to say that well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. But I think when one measures the evolution of the design against the key design principles and heritage of Jaguar, I think it's objectively true that the evolution of the design in 2016-17+ has drifted the car away from its original design excellence.
Yes, I agree with your overview .. I hope they don't lose the plot in successive years so I can replace mine with another Ftype...
I would add that its still a very beautiful car in its current year; its just that I prefer the original design, or at least the design up to 2015.
Lawrence.
I have the sport design pack, and I dont like the skirts at all (though I quite like the chin spoiler treatment). Not only are the skirts way too wide (making it harder getting out of the car) but they are parallel to the ground so they get muddy as soon as you get a bit of rain. I was going to have them wrapped but black would just show the dirt more.
Soooo I think while I prefer the interior tech in the new models, I rathered the style of the original R. Not complaining, they are all very pretty, but those new skirts are unnecessary and a PITA.
+5 to all the comments. Less is better. That's why I like the bumperless P7 front better. The pano roof is a real benefit from an interior experience perspective, but detracts from the exterior design on the light and bright colored car. However, it is unobtrusive with the dark colors.
I have noticed that the SVR did away with the body colored diffuser in the back which is nice. With that painted body color + the fixed spoiler up top it would start looking like a house. Of course painting the lower diffuser black is an easy task vs getting rid of the 'running boards.'
I agree they are all beautiful cars but look at a pic of a 1970 240 and then a 1974 one and that is all I am saying. The purity gets polluted with time.
Hopefully the 2020 model won't be some prostituted-looking muscle car.
I will, again, share my unpopular opinion:
The '16 R looks better!
I've owned both the frilled and frill-less models, and I think the side skirts give our cars a wider appearance that is more suitable for a semi super car.
I did have a slight preference for the previous design when I had it, but I realized when I got the '16 that it had a heavier, more premium, presence.
I know some people like the more lithe appearance of the 15s, and to each his own. I however, have no delusions about my car's weight. It's heavy, it's fancy, and it's powerful.
hmmm, I like the way that the black skirt (or no skirt) nips in at the wheel arches and gives the car a more "flared hips" look. But maybe I'm just not getting enough...
I understand it is all a matter of taste and wouldn't criticize anyone if they liked the skirts, etc. More worried that the trend toward 'dressing up the car' will continue though until it isn't the rolling art it once was in 2014/15.
Same with R8s - again, personal taste - but the US 2008/2009 were beautiful rolling art pieces, that latter ones not so much.
Another one who agrees that there is a real risk and some signs that the F Type will jump the Shark the same way that the 240z did.
The E-type is a good example. There is a reason that if I go to my local online car sales site I can see a Series 1 e-type 3.8lt 6 cyl flat floor 2 seater manual for $375,000 and a series 3, V12 5.3lt automatic 2+2 for $80,000.
Porsche has done an amazing job with the 911 platform over the decades. It's true some models had and have the steroid body effect but that has not stopped the enthusiasts or collectors from lining up over the years to gobble up new and used vehicles. You can follow their lead in not having to redesign the entire platform by adding tweaks here and there or you can go the route of Corvette and completely change the platform. Arguments can be made either way.
Driver 8 - yes that is true. That almost makes the F-Type de-evolution more painful because the styling 'upgrades' are not safety-related or forced by law.
Another car I owned once was a 1971 Saab Sonnett. Never was a 70hp car so fun and in my youth I'd tell gullible ladies it was a Ferrari hahaha.
Bumpers/grillwork/etc changed up through 1974 and made them ugly - so sad. I mean it was a fiberglass, tiny car anyway - you'd be safer on a motorcycle.
The Sonnett lost sales to its competitor at the time, the Porsche 914 which could be had for about the same $3800 cost.
1971
1974
Last edited by Burt Gummer; 07-14-2016 at 04:29 PM.
Oh, I don't know if I agree. Design changes thus far have essentially cosmetic - skirts, spoliers, diffusers - nothing of substance... The metal roof is available in other markets and on the basic base, but thats a 'market' restriction, not a change per se.
One could also argue that due to it being a limited volume car from a smallish manufactuer, and due to the major costs of tooling a replacement, AND because it *is* a timeless design that should age well, JLR may indeed run with the existing overall design for quite some time.
07-13-2016, 07:07 PM
The F-Type going to route of the 240z?
