I pretty sure Porsche does this so not that unusual and I wouldn't be surprised if Jaguar does it as well. If I remember correctly Porsche released a PDK software update on the new generation 991. Better shift points. Never followed up on it but apparently some guys were getting the update when they brought in their cars for service. As computers control more and more of the car we'll see more of these software updates. Updates might not all be good. Imagine Jaguar dialing things back because of too many warranty claims...Now McLaren, they keep having to do updates because they keep losing head to head battles with Porsche and Ferrari...latest saga, P1 needs to have the ABS re-programmed after losing to the 918 at Laguna Seca. LOL.

 

Yes, I would expect software updates from time to time. However, the implication of IronMike's post was that Jaguar was planning an update that a supposed JLR source said would bump up the power output of 14-15 models. I would expect that such upgrades would only occur on new models to incentivize people to trade older for newer models.

I remain skeptical of that.

 

Well, I always drive in sport and manually shift unless i have a long cruise a head at fairly consistent speed, then it is in D.

To some point the constant learning might be true but there is also only so much data the ECU can hold an process and then will continue to over write what it had.

At some point this becomes snake oil.

I went to three different car meets this past weekend most in my XKR-S. On one drive from one to the next I was with a group of Lamborghinis. Coming out of a toll booth an Aventadore and me in my wife's F Type floored it until red line 5th .... the Aventadore did not pull away at all, we were neck at neck ... so my driving habits sure do not seem to have caused the F Type to become "docile"

 

there are a few drag threads, especially in the XK forum and guys who regullarly go.

From this motor trend video the best performance from a standing start supposedly comes from dynamic mode, DSC off, gradual throttle (just for a moment) and then to whale on it ...

 

Thank You IronMike for posting the information.

I'm 1,500 miles into my new F-Type, starting to open her up a bit. I'm not bothered about the car learning how I drive and adapting accordingly (as long as full-power is there when I want it). Reading this, I will be cautious about Dynamic Mode (I haven't been using it in break-in). I'm happy to have the car "learn my style" in normal mode and adopt to my hooligan moods when Dynamic comes on. So much technology behind these modern cars!

I checked my car in TOPIx, build was 1/14/15 (factory release), delivery was 2/20 and I think their is already a software update (not critical). Every year at regular service they can upgrade the software and reset the ECU/TCU if you want I guess...

I love the keyless entry; I make a point of walking in front of the car and caressing the door handle to get it to open. People who ask get told that the car opens to my smell and my gentle caress...

 

You contradict yourself numerous times in this post.
On one hand you state: "this is not how the system works", "the car doesn't cut power...", "that's just dumb".
On the other hand you state: "monitors the way you drive and adjusts shifting and engine parameters to best fit your driving style"; followed by "This adaptation changes when the vehicle downshifts/upshifts based on throttle position...".

I'm confused, which is it? Does it monitor and adjust to the way you drive and change when the vehicle downshifts and upshifts? or doesn't it?

Based on this sentence, I will chalk your comments up to mere opinion, rather than based in any fact: "I believe this is more a placebo than anything else"

I simply reported was I was told by a Jaguar master technician who works on these cars everyday, as well as a gentleman who trains Jaguar technicians on the nuances of working on these cars. They had no reason to fabricate this info and every reason to want to explain precisely what I had experienced with my car.

I should also note that I spoke with each of them separately at first, and then collectively later in the day. The separate explanations were nearly identical.

Regarding the time line or duration of the Adaptation that numerous posts have asked about or spoken to... I can only read between the lines of several comments made a different times by these two, as well as the direction offered by my service advisor when I picked up the car. It would be my best guess that the Adaptation has both a short term and longer term memory. At one point I was told "last 300 miles", at another I was told several thousand miles. It would make perfect sense that the vehicle would be learning your most recent driving habits, while also blending that data into a longer term model. This would explain why one driver felt that peak performance improved, after spending more time on the track.

 

Your confusion here is based on your misunderstanding of the difference between cutting power/reducing performance and changing shift points. The vehicle's ECUs do monitor and adjust things like shift points, but it is not reducing power or performance at the same time. We're talking things like downshifting from 3rd gear to 2nd gear at 45% throttle instead of 50% throttle at 2600 rpm because you typically roll into the throttle slowly instead of punching it to that point. This adjustment is done to smooth out harsh shifts and optimize torque requests based on your trends. Timing, spark, fuel, etc. are left unchanged. At no point do these minor adaptation learns change the amount of horsepower/torque your vehicle creates or how quickly your vehicle will accelerate as you inferred. Only the environmental conditions, traction available and inputs by the driver will effect this. Please don't go boasting that everyone should completely change their driving habits and have their ECUs reset to magically make their car faster and perform better when so desired, because it will do them no good.

My comments are not opinions. I am a test engineer for FCA and I work with PCM/TCM calibrations and dynamic learn functions on a daily basis. I urge you to consider whom you're getting your information from. Service technicians and general service/customer care professions do not have the expert knowledge to explain the details of a vehicles complex learn adaptions for the PCM, TCM and other modules. Often information provided to them that may fix certain problems or give them a rough understanding of one issue becomes generalized for the whole vehicle and misinformation can be spread.

 

I'm sorry but I can't accept your explanation, because I have experienced both the fall-off in performance first hand in my car, as well as an immediate and significant change to the performance of that car as a direct result of clearing both the ECM and PCM Adaptation code.

I took my car in complaining of a loss in performance and peak acceleration, both of which were resoundingly resolved with the service. Nothing to complain about any longer, and its no placebo and not an inference. The difference is real and its palatable. Its also not environmental as you suggest, as the strong performance improvement continues, now a week later. I've also had the opportunity to compare performance levels in an identical twin car...

I might otherwise surmise that they did something else to my car which they declined to inform me of, except for the fact that two separate Jaguar Techs confirmed this entire concept only 4 days after the reset. Neither were involved in the actual work on my car, which means that there are others in the Jaguar technical repair community that know of this, and in the case of my car, provided the direction to the dealer's tech.

Possibly JLR is doing something you are unaware of...

 

So does this mean you constantly have to have the ECM and PCM reset to get the best performance? If that's true, really sucks! I haven't ordered yet and I don't know if I want a car that requires that. Something doesn't sound right to me.

 

I can't speak specifically to the F-Type ECU and how Jaguar programs them...but ECU definitely can affect power and may need to be "reset" if there's a bug in the software. A most recent example...the Corvette C7 Z06 loses power after some hard laps thanks to the ECU cutting back. Owners were complaining and the explanation was it's there to protect the engine/100K warranty. Now, imagine if there was a bug in the software that doesn't reset this...it's possible that the car is now in a very conservative ECU tune mode until it's reset.

 

Believe what you want, i'm just adding to the other side of the discussion so people can make an informed conclusion for themselves. Ask yourself what the benefit of reducing performance because you don't drive it hard all the time would be... it just doesn't make sense.

 

You only have to look to our own cars. The only difference between the V8S, V8R and, I believe, the lower power 470hp version of the 5.0l supercharged engine is the tune. It's perfectly possible that the ECU could have a detrimental impact on power output if something in the software isn't working quite right. I also think back to the the E60 M5 days when the car could run in either a 400hp or 500hp state of tune depending upon user settings.

 

the new hellcat is like that. there's a "red" key that gives you all 700hp...the normal black key only gives you 500 ponies. LOL

 

Comments like these are why we don't just post information heard from a traditionally unreliable source (dealer techs are never wrong right?) on the forums as 100% truthful information. This discussion could cause SoCalJags to not order a car for no reason...

Yes, there are modes put into the vehicles ECU to prevent damage to the engine when certain conditions are met, but this has nothing to do with the adaptation learns. These are pre-programmed calibrations that are triggered when certain conditions are met, such as rising coolant/oil temperatures. Similar to limp mode which activates when certain P codes are set. These are not adjustments made based on driving style. Theoretically there could be a bug that could make this permanent until a ECU reset was done, but this would be a software/hardware fault itself and not something that would be put in place on purpose such as what is being discussed here.

 

I tend to agree with you that it's not that sophistcated. But the F-Type is smart enough to know that you are cornering and changes gear accordingly..so there is already a level of adaptation.

 

It won't stop me from ordering, but I want to find out more about this. I know a Jaguar sales person wouldn't have the slightest idea. The whole idea that this car would do that just seems crazy to me. Should I be afraid to drive it the wrong way, for fear of screwing up the computer?

 

Listen to Stohlen. He's the only reliable source speaking here, and it is what he does for a living. There is nothing particularly unique about JLR ECUs and programming.

Limp modes that occur because of detected "abnormal conditions" are one thing. Adaptive learning based upon driving habits are an entirely different animal.

It should come as no surprise to any car enthusiast that tuning in 100 extra HP or more on modern high performance engines can be done by many individuals with a laptop and enough knowledge to be dangerous. There's no difference between the two V8s or the two V6s other than programming. Similarly, programming can go haywire, cause a loss of power, and the need to reflash the ECU.

 

Frankly foosh, I find this comment offensive!

Stolen may or may not be a reliable source, but not the only reliable source, and in this instance he may well be mistaken.

I know this for certain, his commentary simply does not reconcile to what I have experienced in my car in the last week, and it is diametrically opposite to what I've been told by people I would also consider knowledgable and reliable.
The gentlemen I spoke with are at the top of the Western U.S. flood chain as far as technical expertise within the Jaguar brand.

His assertion they don't know what they are talking about is as absurd as his suggestion that my realization of a substantial gain in power, acceleration, and overall performance is a figment of my imagination!

 

FWIW, if you read the Jaguar marketing stuff (http://www.jaguarusa.com/all-models/...ynamics.html):

"Adaptive Dynamics instinctively modifies the car’s response to conditions and your driving style4. It analyzes acceleration and braking, cornering, throttle and brake-pedal activity, as well as road load and kickdown activation. Sophisticated software in the suspension then selects an appropriate damping strategy, while also communicating with the transmission and engine control systems."

Granted, this is marketing PR, but there's must be some truth to this. So it's very possible that for some reason (software bug/glitch is my guess) IronMike got stuck in some limp mode. E.g., the difference between "D" and "S" is night and day. If the computer put him in "D" mode when it should be in "S", it feels like you lost 100 horsepower.

Do I think that switching to Dynamic + Sport cruising around town will cause issues? No. Unless there's some glitch in the software that I think probably happened to IronMike.

 

Right on!

Great thread everyone!

My old sports-car was a Triumph TR6 I kept for almost 32 years. You could fix it with a pair of pliers and a screw-driver, and often had to. The only electronics were in the radio, which didn't work very well. Tuning was an art. After 32 years I treated myself to the F-Type for the 21st century experience. And it has exceeded all of my expectations.

The V8R was a monster of fun on the track at the Jaguar Performance Driving Academy. I've done Skip Barber, and I did things that surely would have spun me right off the track in a Skip Barber car. In addition to the ECU and TCU, our car's have 3 accelerometers (performance packages only), they know when you are turning. And with the electronic diff on the R the computer can torque vector, blip the ABS brakes and make you look like a real pro as you safely slide through a turn smoking the tires.

A huge amount of software runs these cars, JLR engineers them so we have a pleasurable and safe experience driving them and they will hopefully last a long time without blowing-up. There will be bugs, I'm sure. But in the end, they can be fixed with a computer if they are not living up to expectations.