Maybe they're waiting to hear the US roar of anguish?

 

No doubt. But in a world largely devoid of auto enthusiasts, more desirable means it won't get crushed and melted until next week.

 

Too funny - TorkMonster - you and I are peas in a pod. You stated exactly my mantra. I loved the 7.0L Z06 Vettes - had driven a couple; 1 on the track. What an unbelievable performer. Unfortunately my inherited OsteoArthritis of the knees to some degree influenced my automatic selection. I was concerned that 'rowing the boat' would become more challenging and uncomfortable over time. My wife really loved the appearance of the Jag (and picked the color - yes I was wise there) - more importantly in her opinion Vettes are everywhere, but Jags are not. We kind of like that. FYI you have a clone couple on the opposite corner of our Country!

 

LOL!- I'm right there with you. I had knee problems years ago and driving a manual was hell. Haven't had any recently, but knee issues typically come back with age
That was another reason I went with the Jag. The auto in the Vette was not the best.

 

Yes, Chevrolet really dropped the ball in the last Corvette evolutions - huge problems with cooling, and a very weak automatic tranny. Don't get me started on their policy of engine torque/HP marketing data, then their ECU 'torque management' software that basically makes it to where you'll never see the engine capability due to their tranny protection via the ECU dialing it all back. What a joke they became. Hopefully they had a wake up call recently and this year's Vettes will work again. My buddy bought an automatic (for his wife as well) '18 Vette not long after I got my '16 F type Jag. I've been trying to convince him to run the track with me (we used to share cars when we road raced). He's afraid the tranny will possibly break, and then Chevy not honor repair (with all the RPM history mapping software they'll know he was on a track) despite the car being advertised as 'track ready'.

 

This is a profound sentiment. I know a couple car collectors, and the second or third generation have no interest in the collection. It looks like a liability that is just work and cost.

Baby oBomers are going to start selling off their collections, and we are going to see a glut of cars that no one really wants, especially because the new money collectors are looking for cars that were posters on their bedroom wall in the 80s, like a Lamborghini from Miami Vice. It's going to become very interesting. I'm almost wondering if someone needs to set up a foundation to rescue cars for posterity. I doubt there's enough automotive museums with enough cash to be able to Roundup collections in a way that would fill the gaps.

In the meantime, I've got a small list started. I've got to clean this up and put this in bring a trailer!!

1983 ferrari 308 gts spider
Citroen 2cv sahara sedan
Bmw z8
Land rover defender suv
Pinzgauer 6WD
1974 365 gt4 berlinetta boxer ferrari
1970 Mazda Cosmo 1105 series 2
1937 Bugatti 57s atalante coupe
BMW M3 78to80
Jaguar XJS 1990 US Coupe "Classic"
1958 Cadillac Eldorado Brougham
1965 Buick Riviera 2 door hardtop
1965 Aston Martin 1965 DB5 convertible

 

 

Always concerned about the future of the car hobby. I'm one of those Gen X enthusiasts that was between the muscle car and the Japanese invasion. I drove a 66 Mustang in high school and college and hung around the Toyota dealer drooling on the brand new mk2 Supras till the salesmen would run me off. I started participating in car shows in 1988 with my Mustang and back then, there would always be at least a couple dozen Model A Fords driven by grey-haired men, all wearing their club vests with patches commemorating all the events they'd attended. This last season it was getting pretty rare to see a Model A Ford at a show and I haven't seen anyone wearing one of those vests with patches in over ten years. They're all dead now or in nursing homes. The Model A's are still out there, in some sons or grandson's garage, not ready to sell because of the emotional connection but no interest in actually getting it out and driving it to a show because that was grandpa's hobby, not the grandson's thing.

I got into restoring C3 Corvettes (because that's what I remember as my first impression) and in 2017 attended the national NCRS convention. I felt like a kid there. I couldn't believe that so many of those Corvette owners were hobbling around with canes and a whole bunch of them rented scooters to get around the Convention Center. They're not far behind those Model A club members. Whats interesting too is that every year, at least a few of the C2 owners I know show up with a brand new C7. I ask what happened to the C2 and they tell me they tell me about knee or hip replacement and that at their age, a car with a warranty is a pretty big deal. With the muscle cars, unlike the Model A's, they can still be driven in modern traffic without too much drama (clutch not withstanding) and then there's my generation that drove them as fully-depreciated used cars that is now reaching our peak career earning potential, getting the kids out of the house and paying off mortgages. So muscle cars will likely have a longer collector car cycle than earlier models. Still, they have to fall in value eventually as their fan base dies off and younger collectors will have never learned to to operate a manual.

I did eventually get my 85 Supra, tho I had to finish college first. Still have it. Take it to a show once in a while, but still not seeing very many nostalgic Japanese cars from the 80s yet. I think I'm just sort of an early adopter, but its going to be tough because you can't restore anything from the 80s. Cars by then were largely plastic, destroyed by the sun, and at least Toyota warehouses ran out of spare trim parts by about 2002 (I know because I bought the last one of everything to hoard). Also by the 80s, the number of different models of cars had exploded and the volume of any one model of sports car was pretty low. That means there won't be any reproduction parts like there are for stuff like Mustangs and Corvettes that are still out there in high volumes. If I had the space and money, I would like to build a collection of my 80s dream cars, Starion ESI-R, Dodge Charger Daytona Shelby Turbo Z, Mercury Capri ASC McLaren, Volkswagon Calloway Scirroco, Mustang SVO or Saleen, Isuzu Impulse RS, Nissan 200SX Turbo, Porsche 928......

Automotive museums tho probably won't be rescuing many of these. Such museums are struggling to keep the doors open and many have closed in recent years. Some wealthy collectors will likely continue to make their collections available for viewing on a limited basis, but its just too hard to keep a museum going.

And don't feel too bad about not having a stick in the F-type anymore. Toyota isn't putting one in the new mk5 Supra either.

Meanwhile I'll have to wait for you guys to finish depreciating your F-types and maybe I can enjoy one for a few years before I too go into a nursing home

 

I don't know about posterity, but when boomers croak I will be happy to drive the **** out of their pristine, low miles garage queens. Laying down rubber everywhere I go, and when I am done with it, they will go straight to demolition derby.

 

 

I for one am very happy car enthusiasm is slowing. Maybe I can buy my dream car which is a Mercedes AMG CLK-GTR if prices starting tanking.

 

This genuinely made me happy. Not sure how petrol cars will be "looked at" in 20 years, and not sure how insurance will work with autonomous cars making human drivers more expensive (I imagine). But I've got a mind to buy a bunch of stuff, to the point of having nowhere to store it. =^D The next generation of collectors will be using the cars before the gaskets fail, I imagine.

Also... I've heard that the new Supra is basically a rebranded Z4, but it sort of makes people angry when you say that, so I don't know what's what. But no stick is bizarre for that throwback nostalgia marquee. =(

 

Chassis and power plant is the same, yes. But everything else was designed individually by Toyota and BMW.

 

Then they will wonder why sales tanked and blovate about death of sports car and proceed to blame it on Millennials. Just like they released 86/BRZ with Corolla-level of power and then wondered why it didn't sell that well. All they had to do is put WRX engine into it. I drove couple turbo-converted BRZs on the track and it actually solves nearly all problems (but such mods eat differential and gearbox). With a turbo, RWD and stick it would have been THE CAR to have. Plus with WRX engine Impreza and BRZ would be sharing mod scene to a large degree.

What next, Mustang with no stick shift? Oh wait, new GT500 doesn't have MT option.

/rant

 

You're completely right. A lot of cars are losing their excitement and it's a shame. On the flip side, we can also point the finger back at us owning Supercharged V6's that are quite uninteresting compared to the motors we used to have not too long ago.

The BMW S65 V8 is glorious, their S85 V10 sounded like a dream, the S54 revved to 8k and made over 100HP per liter N/A. The AMG M156/157 was a 6.2L torque monster than was ridiculously under tuned from the factory and made enough torque to have you grinning just about every time you even thought about putting your foot down.

Let's face it, car manufacturers are too blame. I don't necessarily find our supercharged V6 particularly impressive. The power is eh in both the Base and S models and I don't think it's sounds anywhere as near as good at the engines mentioned above. For perspective, AMG is squeezing out 345 BHP from their AMG 4 banger.

And I don't think it's our fault that Jaguar is killing off their manual cars. Jaguar has had a branding problem for years and I'm one of the few in their 20's that actually thinks about Jaguars when the word "sports car" comes into conversation. Most will gravitate to Porsche or BMW M, and those that want a manual will do so even more so. This is a Jaguar branding issue. Those that want a sports car with a manual are true enthusiasts. Unfortunately, those true enthusiasts are not picking Jaguar as the numbers would imply.

All of that being said, I don't think Jaguar should give up on the manual. If anything, it would be a branding exercise to further drive the point that we are a driver centric car and we want to build a GT car that enthusiasts want to buy. I do think they're making progress in turning the brand perception around from an old stodgy tweed jacket gentleman car, to a more youthful brand which every aspect of the demographic benefits from.

 

To be honest, I purchased my F-Type because after 50+ years driving MT cars I wanted the 8 speed auto. Getting lazy and uncoordinated in my dotage.

 

I liked SinF's rant. You go. =) And re: the above, I think it's car enthusiasts to blame, who over-hype their love for something, and then don't buy it. I am not sure fan boys understand the complexity and costs around running an auto-empire. LOL But real car people won't be tricked. But the general public... man. They're being taken for a ride, and enjoy the pun. One thing is that Supra ad did absolutely nothing to inform the lay public about the history or story of what the Supra is, so that was a miss. But the way they take these old, storied brands... Charger, Challenger, Supra, I hear Lincoln Continental is bringing the suicide door back?? It's not the same car, it's not even the same thing, it's JUST MARKETING. Bill Hicks has something to say about that (heavy handed, no offense, he was a genius, and this is a superb joke):

and my twitter link inline w/ the text broke it up by inserting twitter... here's the lincoln info:

 

I want the Miami vice car, but it was a Ferrari Daytona Spyder.....kit car. They used a kit body on a C3 Corvette chassis. Later on they switched to a Testarosa. I know, too much Fing info.


Quite the list. If I remember correctly, you have no chance of folding your legs into a 308. As for the Citreon, why not one of the SMs? If you're going to go with a french car, add Italian complexity!

 

Me too. Miami Vice was one of my favorite shows back then for the cars, the boats and also the music. I was devastated when they blew up the Daytona at the end of the second season (part of the deal with Ferrari supplying them with a real Testarossa for the third season). Of course back then I didn't know it wasn't a real Ferrari. I was just a high school kid in a blue collar neighborhood so what did I know. Fast forward 33 years, now being extremely familiar with the C3 Corvette, I figure it wouldn't be much of a stretch to own one of those replicas so that too is also on my extremely long wish list (or a real one if I win the lottery).

In Fish's defense tho, I haven't seen reruns in many years, but I think I remember there was a white Countach in one or more episodes driven by one of the bad guys. Now that WAS the classic teenage bedroom wall poster car.