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Paul Champagne from Montreal has a F-type and posts here occasionally, retired as the owner of one of the most highly regarded auto leather shops for Porsches in Texas for many years. I'll try to get him to speak of his knowledge.
Last edited by PaulBarrrera; Aug 10, 2023 at 08:37 AM.
Paul Champagne from Montreal has a F-type and posts here occasionally, retired as the owner of one of the most highly regarded auto leather shops for Porsches in Texas for many years. I'll try to get him to speak of his knowledge.
That would be awesome. The more data points the better. As was said above, a picture is worth a 1000 words.
I had asked above, but I’ll ask again: Is your regiment keeping the original matte finish of the leather or does it end up shining up a bit?
Coating or no coating, I guess the realities of potential shrinkage still remains. Half these detailers are probably not thinking or caring about long term realities. Just cleaning and then protecting the leather can’t really address the shrinkage thing. The best you could almost hope for is that the conditioner does eventually break down and get through the coating so it can give the leather a drink to prevent dash and other shrinkage…I suppose…
Properly conditioned, that is, using a good non-silicone conditioner, leaves the leather as it was when new. Bad conditioners impart a more shiney surface, are not properly absorbed and do little to preserve the leather.
The photos I posted above show typical patterns of UNconditioned leather after a time, and of properly conditioned leather after a time (meaning after YEARS). If a car is to be kept for any length of time then the use of conditioners is what is called by some a "no brainer".
I keep my cars a long time. My experience of periods of ownership of 20 years and more have proven to me the value of regular conditioning.
And there is no need to "hope" that the conditioner breaks down. A good conditioner will be absorbed through the surface colour coat.
Properly conditioned, that is, using a good non-silicone conditioner, leaves the leather as it was when new. Bad conditioners impart a more shiney surface, are not properly absorbed and do little to preserve the leather.
The photos I posted above show typical patterns of UNconditioned leather after a time, and of properly conditioned leather after a time (meaning after YEARS). If a car is to be kept for any length of time then the use of conditioners is what is called by some a "no brainer".
I keep my cars a long time. My experience of periods of ownership of 20 years and more have proven to me the value of regular conditioning.
And there is no need to "hope" that the conditioner breaks down. A good conditioner will be absorbed through the surface colour coat.
One of those videos I posted, I found out after that the involved detailer owns 20% of a company for some products he pushes on his channel that involves only cleaning and protecting, not conditioning. So there’s some evidence he has an angle after all.
I suspect I’ll end up going in a similar direction to you. It still makes more sense to me, and it is encouraging to get long term experience based evidence from people like yourself.
Do you do the same regiment up on a full leather dash where sun is high as well? On the wheel etc?
Appreciate all the info. Will definitely keep all this in mind. Perhaps I’ll start trialing things on the leather in my 4Runner ;-0
Properly conditioned, that is, using a good non-silicone conditioner, leaves the leather as it was when new. Bad conditioners impart a more shiney surface, are not properly absorbed and do little to preserve the leather.
The photos I posted above show typical patterns of UNconditioned leather after a time, and of properly conditioned leather after a time (meaning after YEARS). If a car is to be kept for any length of time then the use of conditioners is what is called by some a "no brainer".
I keep my cars a long time. My experience of periods of ownership of 20 years and more have proven to me the value of regular conditioning.
And there is no need to "hope" that the conditioner breaks down. A good conditioner will be absorbed through the surface colour coat.
My wife and I created custom full leather interiors for classic Porsche cars for the better part of 20 years, and I have very little to add to the above comments.
Good quality automotive leather is top coated and good quality conditioners are designed to penetrate and keep the leather supple. Keep in mind that posting on YouTube doesn't necessarily make the poster an expert.
Keep your leather out of the sun as much as possible. Clean and treat your leather. In most cases once or twice a year should be enough. Too much product is not good either.
If you have a convertible, don't park your car in the sun with the top down. That is how a made most of my money Smile
I suspect I’ll end up going in a similar direction to you. It still makes more sense to me, and it is encouraging to get long term experience based evidence from people like yourself.
Do you do the same regiment up on a full leather dash where sun is high as well? On the wheel etc?
;-0
Many modern Jaguars have leather-trimmed dash tops as well as the seating surfaces (and on some cars, my own F-Type included) almost the entire interior trim is leather . The same issues of drying and resultant shrinkage, exacerbated by sun and heat, occur on the leather dashes as on the seats - perhaps even more so. If it is leather, it should be preserved by the use of a good conditioner on a regular basis, the treatment intervals depending upon the exposure the car has sun and heat and generally dry conditions. Leather in a car regularly garaged will not suffer nearly as much as leather in a car routinely left to the elements. Convertibles are particularly vulnerable in this respect for obvious reasons.
Regarding those You Tube videos: statements made in those videos are rarely impartial, and those which claim that leather cannot be preserved with conditioners are never saying this in the context of long-term ownership. Keeping your Jag for the warranty period only? Then you really don’t need to worry about the leather, do you? You can just pretend that it is vinyl and ignore its care.
But if you plan to keep the Jaguar longer you might want to consider “best practice” as your routine.
Regarding the longevity of well-treated leather: this is the original leather in my 1966 Mk 2 - it is Connolly Vaumol, which does not have the same colour coat as the modern leathers, but does have a surface dye that happily accepts conditioning:
Not the best photo to show the leather, but...the wood is original as well:
Those of us who have owned leather interior vehicles for decades know a good conditioner plainly works. But as already mentioned, just because you condition leather, doesn't mean it'll always look like new... but it'll last a lot longer for sure. Heat is the enemy of a lot of things, especially leather: It dehydrates it, shrinks it, and cracks it. So yes, the most you can keep it out of the sun and extreme heat, the better. And having tinted windows helps a lot (they also block most UV rays), as well as always covering your dash with a good windshield sun-shield when parked outside (the interior heats up less as well). Dash leather is the most prone to damage for obvious reasons, so need to keep it conditioned. The more heat exposure, the more you need to treat it.
And to prevent wear, which looks like crap, and it's hardly ever fully reversed, I always lever myself in and out of my vehicles, so almost never rub on the seats. My seats have always looked like new when I sell my vehicles, because I care for the leather, and don't rub it either. And haven't experienced any shrinkage either, but my vehicles are always garaged (and -lightly- tinted), so that helps a lot. It's more work to keep leather looking like new, but it's worth it. Having said that, if my vehicle was going to be parked outside all the time, no way I'd even consider a leather dash, but that's just me.
Properly conditioned, that is, using a good non-silicone conditioner, leaves the leather as it was when new. Bad conditioners impart a more shiney surface, are not properly absorbed and do little to preserve the leather.
The photos I posted above show typical patterns of UNconditioned leather after a time, and of properly conditioned leather after a time (meaning after YEARS). If a car is to be kept for any length of time then the use of conditioners is what is called by some a "no brainer".
I keep my cars a long time. My experience of periods of ownership of 20 years and more have proven to me the value of regular conditioning.
And there is no need to "hope" that the conditioner breaks down. A good conditioner will be absorbed through the surface colour coat.
Thanks again. Cutting through all the info on any topic can be a challenge. This has been most helpful. I’m in yer camp now ;-0
Lots of discussion about leather care over on the Pommy forum and the general consensus is that a good quality product does penetrate the modern PVC protective coating and protect and nourish the underlying leather.
I use Autoglym Leather Balm on the seats and door panels and Aerospace 303 Protectant on the dash and door tops, roughly once every three months, and my leather is still like new after nearly 10 years.
I guess you don’t have leather on the dash and door tops?
Sov211's recommendation to stay away from silicone based conditioners is a good one. Silicone can do odd things in a vehicle interior and be difficult to remedy once it is there. One time I made the mistake of having a "professional" detailer detail my car. They used a silicone conditioner on the dashboard and probably the leather seats as well.
I'm sure most of us are aware of the phenomenon of "off gassing" that occurs when vehicles are parked in the sun and the chemicals from the interior and dash form a film on the inside of the windshield.
Well, the silicone from the dash treatment created a film on the inside of my windshield that I was never able to completely remove, even after wiping it down with things like acetone. (the glass, not the dashboard) A few days later the film returned and was particularly noticeable at night. Silicone is the devil's juice when it comes to vehicle interiors.
For more than 20 years I have been using Aerospace 303 for the plastic and rubber interior parts of my vehicles with excellent results and Lexol, Zaino and lately Autoglym on the leather. I also was a daily user of a car cover when I was still working and my cars sat in the Sou. Cal sun all day. My cars always looked great both inside and out and I received regular compliments on how "new" they looked.
Minimizing direct sun exposure along with regular application of quality auto care products was the key.
Ah man, that window situation sounds nasty. Car products seem like a field of land mines that need to be navigated ;-o
My wife and I created custom full leather interiors for classic Porsche cars for the better part of 20 years, and I have very little to add to the above comments.
Good quality automotive leather is top coated and good quality conditioners are designed to penetrate and keep the leather supple. Keep in mind that posting on YouTube doesn't necessarily make the poster an expert.
Keep your leather out of the sun as much as possible. Clean and treat your leather. In most cases once or twice a year should be enough. Too much product is not good either.
If you have a convertible, don't park your car in the sun with the top down. That is how a made most of my money Smile
Thanks for kicking in. For some strange reason I find it somewhat oddly satisfying that a guy that worked so intimately with Porsches for so long chooses to drive Jag ;-0
Many modern Jaguars have leather-trimmed dash tops as well as the seating surfaces (and on some cars, my own F-Type included) almost the entire interior trim is leather . The same issues of drying and resultant shrinkage, exacerbated by sun and heat, occur on the leather dashes as on the seats - perhaps even more so. If it is leather, it should be preserved by the use of a good conditioner on a regular basis, the treatment intervals depending upon the exposure the car has sun and heat and generally dry conditions. Leather in a car regularly garaged will not suffer nearly as much as leather in a car routinely left to the elements. Convertibles are particularly vulnerable in this respect for obvious reasons.
Regarding those You Tube videos: statements made in those videos are rarely impartial, and those which claim that leather cannot be preserved with conditioners are never saying this in the context of long-term ownership. Keeping your Jag for the warranty period only? Then you really don’t need to worry about the leather, do you? You can just pretend that it is vinyl and ignore its care.
But if you plan to keep the Jaguar longer you might want to consider “best practice” as your routine.
Regarding the longevity of well-treated leather: this is the original leather in my 1966 Mk 2 - it is Connolly Vaumol, which does not have the same colour coat as the modern leathers, but does have a surface dye that happily accepts conditioning:
Not the best photo to show the leather, but...the wood is original as well:
Those of us who have owned leather interior vehicles for decades know a good conditioner plainly works. But as already mentioned, just because you condition leather, doesn't mean it'll always look like new... but it'll last a lot longer for sure. Heat is the enemy of a lot of things, especially leather: It dehydrates it, shrinks it, and cracks it. So yes, the most you can keep it out of the sun and extreme heat, the better. And having tinted windows helps a lot (they also block most UV rays), as well as always covering your dash with a good windshield sun-shield when parked outside (the interior heats up less as well). Dash leather is the most prone to damage for obvious reasons, so need to keep it conditioned. The more heat exposure, the more you need to treat it.
And to prevent wear, which looks like crap, and it's hardly ever fully reversed, I always lever myself in and out of my vehicles, so almost never rub on the seats. My seats have always looked like new when I sell my vehicles, because I care for the leather, and don't rub it either. And haven't experienced any shrinkage either, but my vehicles are always garaged (and -lightly- tinted), so that helps a lot. It's more work to keep leather looking like new, but it's worth it. Having said that, if my vehicle was going to be parked outside all the time, no way I'd even consider a leather dash, but that's just me.
All makes sense. I think I will have a pretty good start in that this F-type R I’m getting will be both a low mileage vehicle and always garaged when not in use.
Thanks for kicking in. For some strange reason I find it somewhat oddly satisfying that a guy that worked so intimately with Porsches for so long chooses to drive Jag ;-0
Looks, performance and nothing for me to repair or replace. What's not to love.
I guess you don’t have leather on the dash and door tops?
You guessed wrong!
Leather on both the dash and door tops.
I use 303 on those mainly for the UV protection it offers over and above that offered by the Leather Balm.
Coz the sun here in li'l ol' Adelaide can be fierce in summer (think Death Valley!) and can really cook those surfaces if left under the sun for too long.
Not so bad the last few years coz I rarely leave the car parked outside for any length of time and I also don't drive much any more.
You guessed wrong!
Leather on both the dash and door tops.
I use 303 on those mainly for the UV protection it offers over and above that offered by the Leather Balm.
Coz the sun here in li'l ol' Adelaide can be fierce in summer (think Death Valley!) and can really cook those surfaces if left under the sun for too long.
Not so bad the last few years coz I rarely leave the car parked outside for any length of time and I also don't drive much any more.
Oh, I see, so you use the 303 in addition to the conditioner.