F-Type ( X152 ) 2014 - Onwards

Leather dash question

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Aug 10, 2023 | 08:32 AM
  #21  
PaulBarrrera's Avatar
Senior Member
10 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 181
Likes: 71
From: Saginaw, MI
Default

Paul Champagne from Montreal has a F-type and posts here occasionally, retired as the owner of one of the most highly regarded auto leather shops for Porsches in Texas for many years. I'll try to get him to speak of his knowledge.
 

Last edited by PaulBarrrera; Aug 10, 2023 at 08:37 AM.
Reply
Old Aug 10, 2023 | 09:02 AM
  #22  
DMeister's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Veteran Member
Community Builder
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
Joined: Jan 2023
Posts: 1,786
Likes: 751
From: Ontario, Canada
Default

Originally Posted by PaulBarrrera
Paul Champagne from Montreal has a F-type and posts here occasionally, retired as the owner of one of the most highly regarded auto leather shops for Porsches in Texas for many years. I'll try to get him to speak of his knowledge.
That would be awesome. The more data points the better. As was said above, a picture is worth a 1000 words.
 
Reply
Old Aug 10, 2023 | 11:05 AM
  #23  
sov211's Avatar
Veteran Member
15 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,922
Likes: 2,525
From: Victoria, Canada
Default

Originally Posted by DMeister
Does seem a tad convincing ;-0

I had asked above, but I’ll ask again: Is your regiment keeping the original matte finish of the leather or does it end up shining up a bit?

Coating or no coating, I guess the realities of potential shrinkage still remains. Half these detailers are probably not thinking or caring about long term realities. Just cleaning and then protecting the leather can’t really address the shrinkage thing. The best you could almost hope for is that the conditioner does eventually break down and get through the coating so it can give the leather a drink to prevent dash and other shrinkage…I suppose…
Properly conditioned, that is, using a good non-silicone conditioner, leaves the leather as it was when new. Bad conditioners impart a more shiney surface, are not properly absorbed and do little to preserve the leather.
The photos I posted above show typical patterns of UNconditioned leather after a time, and of properly conditioned leather after a time (meaning after YEARS). If a car is to be kept for any length of time then the use of conditioners is what is called by some a "no brainer".
I keep my cars a long time. My experience of periods of ownership of 20 years and more have proven to me the value of regular conditioning.

And there is no need to "hope" that the conditioner breaks down. A good conditioner will be absorbed through the surface colour coat.
 
Reply
Old Aug 10, 2023 | 11:14 AM
  #24  
DMeister's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Veteran Member
Community Builder
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
Joined: Jan 2023
Posts: 1,786
Likes: 751
From: Ontario, Canada
Default

Originally Posted by sov211
Properly conditioned, that is, using a good non-silicone conditioner, leaves the leather as it was when new. Bad conditioners impart a more shiney surface, are not properly absorbed and do little to preserve the leather.
The photos I posted above show typical patterns of UNconditioned leather after a time, and of properly conditioned leather after a time (meaning after YEARS). If a car is to be kept for any length of time then the use of conditioners is what is called by some a "no brainer".
I keep my cars a long time. My experience of periods of ownership of 20 years and more have proven to me the value of regular conditioning.

And there is no need to "hope" that the conditioner breaks down. A good conditioner will be absorbed through the surface colour coat.
One of those videos I posted, I found out after that the involved detailer owns 20% of a company for some products he pushes on his channel that involves only cleaning and protecting, not conditioning. So there’s some evidence he has an angle after all.

I suspect I’ll end up going in a similar direction to you. It still makes more sense to me, and it is encouraging to get long term experience based evidence from people like yourself.

Do you do the same regiment up on a full leather dash where sun is high as well? On the wheel etc?

Appreciate all the info. Will definitely keep all this in mind. Perhaps I’ll start trialing things on the leather in my 4Runner ;-0
 
Reply
Old Aug 10, 2023 | 12:08 PM
  #25  
Paul champagne's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 384
Likes: 153
From: Montréal, Corpus Christi, Nice
Smile

Originally Posted by sov211
Properly conditioned, that is, using a good non-silicone conditioner, leaves the leather as it was when new. Bad conditioners impart a more shiney surface, are not properly absorbed and do little to preserve the leather.
The photos I posted above show typical patterns of UNconditioned leather after a time, and of properly conditioned leather after a time (meaning after YEARS). If a car is to be kept for any length of time then the use of conditioners is what is called by some a "no brainer".
I keep my cars a long time. My experience of periods of ownership of 20 years and more have proven to me the value of regular conditioning.

And there is no need to "hope" that the conditioner breaks down. A good conditioner will be absorbed through the surface colour coat.
My wife and I created custom full leather interiors for classic Porsche cars for the better part of 20 years, and I have very little to add to the above comments.
Good quality automotive leather is top coated and good quality conditioners are designed to penetrate and keep the leather supple. Keep in mind that posting on YouTube doesn't necessarily make the poster an expert.
Keep your leather out of the sun as much as possible. Clean and treat your leather. In most cases once or twice a year should be enough. Too much product is not good either.
If you have a convertible, don't park your car in the sun with the top down. That is how a made most of my money Smile
 
Reply
Old Aug 10, 2023 | 12:21 PM
  #26  
Carbuff2's Avatar
Veteran Member
5 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 2,266
Likes: 933
From: Exit 30 in NorthWest NJ
Default

If you have a convertible, don't park your car in the sun with the top down.
Wrinkles the cloth top fabric, too....
 
Reply
Old Aug 10, 2023 | 12:43 PM
  #27  
sov211's Avatar
Veteran Member
15 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,922
Likes: 2,525
From: Victoria, Canada
Default

Originally Posted by DMeister

I suspect I’ll end up going in a similar direction to you. It still makes more sense to me, and it is encouraging to get long term experience based evidence from people like yourself.

Do you do the same regiment up on a full leather dash where sun is high as well? On the wheel etc?
;-0
Many modern Jaguars have leather-trimmed dash tops as well as the seating surfaces (and on some cars, my own F-Type included) almost the entire interior trim is leather . The same issues of drying and resultant shrinkage, exacerbated by sun and heat, occur on the leather dashes as on the seats - perhaps even more so. If it is leather, it should be preserved by the use of a good conditioner on a regular basis, the treatment intervals depending upon the exposure the car has sun and heat and generally dry conditions. Leather in a car regularly garaged will not suffer nearly as much as leather in a car routinely left to the elements. Convertibles are particularly vulnerable in this respect for obvious reasons.

Regarding those You Tube videos: statements made in those videos are rarely impartial, and those which claim that leather cannot be preserved with conditioners are never saying this in the context of long-term ownership. Keeping your Jag for the warranty period only? Then you really don’t need to worry about the leather, do you? You can just pretend that it is vinyl and ignore its care.
But if you plan to keep the Jaguar longer you might want to consider “best practice” as your routine.

Regarding the longevity of well-treated leather: this is the original leather in my 1966 Mk 2 - it is Connolly Vaumol, which does not have the same colour coat as the modern leathers, but does have a surface dye that happily accepts conditioning:


Not the best photo to show the leather, but...the wood is original as well:


 

Last edited by sov211; Aug 10, 2023 at 02:23 PM.
Reply
Old Aug 10, 2023 | 03:08 PM
  #28  
JCtx's Avatar
Member
Joined: Aug 2023
Posts: 88
Likes: 13
From: El Paso, TX
Default

Those of us who have owned leather interior vehicles for decades know a good conditioner plainly works. But as already mentioned, just because you condition leather, doesn't mean it'll always look like new... but it'll last a lot longer for sure. Heat is the enemy of a lot of things, especially leather: It dehydrates it, shrinks it, and cracks it. So yes, the most you can keep it out of the sun and extreme heat, the better. And having tinted windows helps a lot (they also block most UV rays), as well as always covering your dash with a good windshield sun-shield when parked outside (the interior heats up less as well). Dash leather is the most prone to damage for obvious reasons, so need to keep it conditioned. The more heat exposure, the more you need to treat it.

And to prevent wear, which looks like crap, and it's hardly ever fully reversed, I always lever myself in and out of my vehicles, so almost never rub on the seats. My seats have always looked like new when I sell my vehicles, because I care for the leather, and don't rub it either. And haven't experienced any shrinkage either, but my vehicles are always garaged (and -lightly- tinted), so that helps a lot. It's more work to keep leather looking like new, but it's worth it. Having said that, if my vehicle was going to be parked outside all the time, no way I'd even consider a leather dash, but that's just me.
 

Last edited by JCtx; Aug 10, 2023 at 03:12 PM.
Reply
Old Aug 10, 2023 | 06:13 PM
  #29  
DMeister's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Veteran Member
Community Builder
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
Joined: Jan 2023
Posts: 1,786
Likes: 751
From: Ontario, Canada
Default

Originally Posted by sov211
Properly conditioned, that is, using a good non-silicone conditioner, leaves the leather as it was when new. Bad conditioners impart a more shiney surface, are not properly absorbed and do little to preserve the leather.
The photos I posted above show typical patterns of UNconditioned leather after a time, and of properly conditioned leather after a time (meaning after YEARS). If a car is to be kept for any length of time then the use of conditioners is what is called by some a "no brainer".
I keep my cars a long time. My experience of periods of ownership of 20 years and more have proven to me the value of regular conditioning.

And there is no need to "hope" that the conditioner breaks down. A good conditioner will be absorbed through the surface colour coat.
Thanks again. Cutting through all the info on any topic can be a challenge. This has been most helpful. I’m in yer camp now ;-0
 
Reply
Old Aug 10, 2023 | 06:16 PM
  #30  
DMeister's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Veteran Member
Community Builder
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
Joined: Jan 2023
Posts: 1,786
Likes: 751
From: Ontario, Canada
Default

Originally Posted by OzXFR
Lots of discussion about leather care over on the Pommy forum and the general consensus is that a good quality product does penetrate the modern PVC protective coating and protect and nourish the underlying leather.
I use Autoglym Leather Balm on the seats and door panels and Aerospace 303 Protectant on the dash and door tops, roughly once every three months, and my leather is still like new after nearly 10 years.
I guess you don’t have leather on the dash and door tops?
 
Reply
Old Aug 10, 2023 | 06:20 PM
  #31  
DMeister's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Veteran Member
Community Builder
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
Joined: Jan 2023
Posts: 1,786
Likes: 751
From: Ontario, Canada
Default

Originally Posted by Dwight Frye
Sov211's recommendation to stay away from silicone based conditioners is a good one. Silicone can do odd things in a vehicle interior and be difficult to remedy once it is there. One time I made the mistake of having a "professional" detailer detail my car. They used a silicone conditioner on the dashboard and probably the leather seats as well.

I'm sure most of us are aware of the phenomenon of "off gassing" that occurs when vehicles are parked in the sun and the chemicals from the interior and dash form a film on the inside of the windshield.
Well, the silicone from the dash treatment created a film on the inside of my windshield that I was never able to completely remove, even after wiping it down with things like acetone. (the glass, not the dashboard) A few days later the film returned and was particularly noticeable at night. Silicone is the devil's juice when it comes to vehicle interiors.

For more than 20 years I have been using Aerospace 303 for the plastic and rubber interior parts of my vehicles with excellent results and Lexol, Zaino and lately Autoglym on the leather. I also was a daily user of a car cover when I was still working and my cars sat in the Sou. Cal sun all day. My cars always looked great both inside and out and I received regular compliments on how "new" they looked.
Minimizing direct sun exposure along with regular application of quality auto care products was the key.
Ah man, that window situation sounds nasty. Car products seem like a field of land mines that need to be navigated ;-o

You must have been so frustrated.
 
Reply
Old Aug 10, 2023 | 06:22 PM
  #32  
DMeister's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Veteran Member
Community Builder
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
Joined: Jan 2023
Posts: 1,786
Likes: 751
From: Ontario, Canada
Default

Originally Posted by Paul champagne
My wife and I created custom full leather interiors for classic Porsche cars for the better part of 20 years, and I have very little to add to the above comments.
Good quality automotive leather is top coated and good quality conditioners are designed to penetrate and keep the leather supple. Keep in mind that posting on YouTube doesn't necessarily make the poster an expert.
Keep your leather out of the sun as much as possible. Clean and treat your leather. In most cases once or twice a year should be enough. Too much product is not good either.
If you have a convertible, don't park your car in the sun with the top down. That is how a made most of my money Smile
Thanks for kicking in. For some strange reason I find it somewhat oddly satisfying that a guy that worked so intimately with Porsches for so long chooses to drive Jag ;-0
 
Reply
Old Aug 10, 2023 | 06:24 PM
  #33  
DMeister's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Veteran Member
Community Builder
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
Joined: Jan 2023
Posts: 1,786
Likes: 751
From: Ontario, Canada
Default

Originally Posted by sov211
Many modern Jaguars have leather-trimmed dash tops as well as the seating surfaces (and on some cars, my own F-Type included) almost the entire interior trim is leather . The same issues of drying and resultant shrinkage, exacerbated by sun and heat, occur on the leather dashes as on the seats - perhaps even more so. If it is leather, it should be preserved by the use of a good conditioner on a regular basis, the treatment intervals depending upon the exposure the car has sun and heat and generally dry conditions. Leather in a car regularly garaged will not suffer nearly as much as leather in a car routinely left to the elements. Convertibles are particularly vulnerable in this respect for obvious reasons.

Regarding those You Tube videos: statements made in those videos are rarely impartial, and those which claim that leather cannot be preserved with conditioners are never saying this in the context of long-term ownership. Keeping your Jag for the warranty period only? Then you really don’t need to worry about the leather, do you? You can just pretend that it is vinyl and ignore its care.
But if you plan to keep the Jaguar longer you might want to consider “best practice” as your routine.

Regarding the longevity of well-treated leather: this is the original leather in my 1966 Mk 2 - it is Connolly Vaumol, which does not have the same colour coat as the modern leathers, but does have a surface dye that happily accepts conditioning:


Not the best photo to show the leather, but...the wood is original as well:
Man, you have some fun cars in your stable.

How long have you owned the 1966?
 
Reply
Old Aug 10, 2023 | 06:28 PM
  #34  
DMeister's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Veteran Member
Community Builder
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
Joined: Jan 2023
Posts: 1,786
Likes: 751
From: Ontario, Canada
Default

Originally Posted by JCtx
Those of us who have owned leather interior vehicles for decades know a good conditioner plainly works. But as already mentioned, just because you condition leather, doesn't mean it'll always look like new... but it'll last a lot longer for sure. Heat is the enemy of a lot of things, especially leather: It dehydrates it, shrinks it, and cracks it. So yes, the most you can keep it out of the sun and extreme heat, the better. And having tinted windows helps a lot (they also block most UV rays), as well as always covering your dash with a good windshield sun-shield when parked outside (the interior heats up less as well). Dash leather is the most prone to damage for obvious reasons, so need to keep it conditioned. The more heat exposure, the more you need to treat it.

And to prevent wear, which looks like crap, and it's hardly ever fully reversed, I always lever myself in and out of my vehicles, so almost never rub on the seats. My seats have always looked like new when I sell my vehicles, because I care for the leather, and don't rub it either. And haven't experienced any shrinkage either, but my vehicles are always garaged (and -lightly- tinted), so that helps a lot. It's more work to keep leather looking like new, but it's worth it. Having said that, if my vehicle was going to be parked outside all the time, no way I'd even consider a leather dash, but that's just me.
All makes sense. I think I will have a pretty good start in that this F-type R I’m getting will be both a low mileage vehicle and always garaged when not in use.
 
Reply
Old Aug 10, 2023 | 06:50 PM
  #35  
Paul champagne's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 384
Likes: 153
From: Montréal, Corpus Christi, Nice
Default

Originally Posted by DMeister
Thanks for kicking in. For some strange reason I find it somewhat oddly satisfying that a guy that worked so intimately with Porsches for so long chooses to drive Jag ;-0
Looks, performance and nothing for me to repair or replace. What's not to love.
 
Reply
Old Aug 10, 2023 | 07:37 PM
  #36  
OzXFR's Avatar
Veteran Member
10 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 9,037
Likes: 3,668
From: Adelaide, South Australia
Default

Originally Posted by DMeister
I guess you don’t have leather on the dash and door tops?
You guessed wrong!
Leather on both the dash and door tops.
I use 303 on those mainly for the UV protection it offers over and above that offered by the Leather Balm.
Coz the sun here in li'l ol' Adelaide can be fierce in summer (think Death Valley!) and can really cook those surfaces if left under the sun for too long.
Not so bad the last few years coz I rarely leave the car parked outside for any length of time and I also don't drive much any more.
 
Reply
Old Aug 10, 2023 | 07:44 PM
  #37  
DMeister's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Veteran Member
Community Builder
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
Joined: Jan 2023
Posts: 1,786
Likes: 751
From: Ontario, Canada
Default

Originally Posted by OzXFR
You guessed wrong!
Leather on both the dash and door tops.
I use 303 on those mainly for the UV protection it offers over and above that offered by the Leather Balm.
Coz the sun here in li'l ol' Adelaide can be fierce in summer (think Death Valley!) and can really cook those surfaces if left under the sun for too long.
Not so bad the last few years coz I rarely leave the car parked outside for any length of time and I also don't drive much any more.
Oh, I see, so you use the 303 in addition to the conditioner.
 
Reply
Old Aug 10, 2023 | 08:26 PM
  #38  
OzXFR's Avatar
Veteran Member
10 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 9,037
Likes: 3,668
From: Adelaide, South Australia
Default

Originally Posted by DMeister
Oh, I see, so you use the 303 in addition to the conditioner.
Yep.
Around a 2 to 1 ratio, ie Leather Balm once in winter and 303 twice in summer.
 
Reply
Old Aug 11, 2023 | 12:31 AM
  #39  
sov211's Avatar
Veteran Member
15 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,922
Likes: 2,525
From: Victoria, Canada
Default

Originally Posted by DMeister
Man, you have some fun cars in your stable.

How long have you owned the 1966?
22 years…used all year round on dry roads.
 
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
rgfb62
XK / XKR ( X150 )
23
Dec 18, 2021 08:45 AM
Typhoon320i
XK / XKR ( X150 )
3
Feb 13, 2015 04:39 PM
JK_XKR
XK / XKR ( X150 )
18
Sep 12, 2013 11:43 PM
Rique
XF and XFR ( X250 )
2
Mar 20, 2012 07:20 PM
pezzonovante88
XJ XJ8 / XJR ( X308 )
4
Feb 22, 2011 04:35 AM

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:44 PM.