Looking for other modifications that will increase mainly Torque.
#21
Could you offer recommendations and let me know of expected cooling gains? I am interested in this mod on a non-tuned engine, as I think I do run up to a temp limit and have car cut power when racing on very hot days. This is just butt dyno feel with back to back laps, but at 100F or so I am missing good 10% power or so after few hot laps in addition to expected forced induction losses on a hot day. WOT just not the same after just a few laps. Not overheating (engine temp), just missing power. It must be ECU pulling something back.
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SinF (10-30-2018)
#22
#23
various rubber compounds will degrade much more quickly in the presence of 85% etoh and various sensors may not have adequate range to detect or compensate for the resulting lean mixture. Also, any amount of moisture in the system will cause phase separation for which the Jag does not have any safety detection. E85 requires a ground up design to ensure it works properly. (Including proper material selection)
#24
Could you offer recommendations and let me know of expected cooling gains? I am interested in this mod on a non-tuned engine, as I think I do run up to a temp limit and have car cut power when racing on very hot days. This is just butt dyno feel with back to back laps, but at 100F or so I am missing good 10% power or so after few hot laps in addition to expected forced induction losses on a hot day. WOT just not the same after just a few laps. Not overheating (engine temp), just missing power. It must be ECU pulling something back.
Any help understanding and addressing this is much appreciated.
Any help understanding and addressing this is much appreciated.
My situation may be different than yours as I have no cats and went nutty with coatings. But it would help to determine what changes. To do that I would start with hooking up an OBDII logger and capture oil temp, coolant temp, air charge temp, cat converter temp, A/F ratio, oil pressure and speed (will explain). It can be done cheaply using a Bluetooth dongle and Torque on a phone or using better tools.
Rather than an all out cooling hack, determining the cause is very important. Removing the engine cover is the easy fix to a bit of it, on AWD removing the black rubber cover under the vents also increases airflow. The grille style vents on RWD cars offers far greater airflow than the ones with that appear flat with an overlap. Opening up both the front bumper side vents cools down the cat converters at speeds over 40MPH (tested on SVR and R).
Add water wetter to the coolant, cut to shape the styrofoam behind the grille center bar (overmolded at the factory), add a lip diverter on the topside of the intercooler radiator 1.5" attached to the OEM stock back plastic one at an upwards angle of 30 degrees to take advantage of the entire opening below the grille.
These are just some of the changes I made.
The reason you want to monitor all of those sensors is to help you determine the sequence leading to the power drop (air charge temp increase) or if you cat converters are just getting too hot causing the ECU to enrich the mixture. The speed will correlate to understanding if this is due to a lack of cooling airflow and how higher speed alleviate this (or not). As a result you may want to simply add evac vents under the car with a small scoop. Be careful not to interfere with the air intake in the belly an for the alternator, that needs to work perfectly and match the ducting behind it.
Ceramic coating your exhaust manifolds also provides a very noticeable temperature drop under the hood. I use Jet-Hot for that from manifold to the beginning of the midpipe.
Last edited by FType17; 10-30-2018 at 10:55 PM.
The following users liked this post:
SinF (10-31-2018)
#25
Aren't the cat temperatures calculated by the ECU? So an output of all the temperate sensors you mentioned earlier? Or are the temps calculated using the values recorded by the O2 sensors?
#27
My situation may be different than yours as I have no cats and went nutty with coatings. But it would help to determine what changes. To do that I would start with hooking up an OBDII logger and capture oil temp, coolant temp, air charge temp, cat converter temp, A/F ratio, oil pressure and speed (will explain). It can be done cheaply using a Bluetooth dongle and Torque on a phone or using better tools.
Rather than an all out cooling hack, determining the cause is very important. Removing the engine cover is the easy fix to a bit of it, on AWD removing the black rubber cover under the vents also increases airflow. The grille style vents on RWD cars offers far greater airflow than the ones with that appear flat with an overlap. Opening up both the front bumper side vents cools down the cat converters at speeds over 40MPH (tested on SVR and R).
Add water wetter to the coolant, cut to shape the styrofoam behind the grille center bar (overmolded at the factory), add a lip diverter on the topside of the intercooler radiator 1.5" attached to the OEM stock back plastic one at an upwards angle of 30 degrees to take advantage of the entire opening below the grille.
These are just some of the changes I made.
The reason you want to monitor all of those sensors is to help you determine the sequence leading to the power drop (air charge temp increase) or if you cat converters are just getting too hot causing the ECU to enrich the mixture. The speed will correlate to understanding if this is due to a lack of cooling airflow and how higher speed alleviate this (or not). As a result you may want to simply add evac vents under the car with a small scoop. Be careful not to interfere with the air intake in the belly an for the alternator, that needs to work perfectly and match the ducting behind it.
Ceramic coating your exhaust manifolds also provides a very noticeable temperature drop under the hood. I use Jet-Hot for that from manifold to the beginning of the midpipe.
Rather than an all out cooling hack, determining the cause is very important. Removing the engine cover is the easy fix to a bit of it, on AWD removing the black rubber cover under the vents also increases airflow. The grille style vents on RWD cars offers far greater airflow than the ones with that appear flat with an overlap. Opening up both the front bumper side vents cools down the cat converters at speeds over 40MPH (tested on SVR and R).
Add water wetter to the coolant, cut to shape the styrofoam behind the grille center bar (overmolded at the factory), add a lip diverter on the topside of the intercooler radiator 1.5" attached to the OEM stock back plastic one at an upwards angle of 30 degrees to take advantage of the entire opening below the grille.
These are just some of the changes I made.
The reason you want to monitor all of those sensors is to help you determine the sequence leading to the power drop (air charge temp increase) or if you cat converters are just getting too hot causing the ECU to enrich the mixture. The speed will correlate to understanding if this is due to a lack of cooling airflow and how higher speed alleviate this (or not). As a result you may want to simply add evac vents under the car with a small scoop. Be careful not to interfere with the air intake in the belly an for the alternator, that needs to work perfectly and match the ducting behind it.
Ceramic coating your exhaust manifolds also provides a very noticeable temperature drop under the hood. I use Jet-Hot for that from manifold to the beginning of the midpipe.
On ceramic coating, I know it exists but never bothered researching into it. Usually there is cheap stuff that not worth it, and good stuff that works well. What is the good stuff so I can ask for it explicitly?
#28
Going with Cell 100 cats helps also if one wants to keep cats (mandatory in many states for emission visual inspection). ECU Tuning is required to maximize the benefits and keep the CEL off.
Water/meth injection helps also with cooling, not only to aid in pre-ignition detonation. As a side benefit you also get clean intake valves. I use the Snom MAF/MAP controller unit from Snow Performance. All you will need is two small holes in the upper intake manifold cover and tap the holes.
---- SIDE NOTE for V6 owners ---
I have been reading of people swapping out mid-pipes with ones having an X pipe or with the one from the V8. DON'T! Not only it brings no benefit in terms of power to a V6 but it actually increases the exhaust temps. On V6 engines, the single best way to evacuate hot exhaust is to swap out the muffler with straight pipes (and they sound nice), not raspy as claimed.
The following users liked this post:
SinF (10-31-2018)
#29
various rubber compounds will degrade much more quickly in the presence of 85% etoh and various sensors may not have adequate range to detect or compensate for the resulting lean mixture. Also, any amount of moisture in the system will cause phase separation for which the Jag does not have any safety detection. E85 requires a ground up design to ensure it works properly. (Including proper material selection)
Exactly right. And it will kill your fuel pumps much faster (including the direct injection one!!!)
#30
Mostly not accurate, carefully check, we have 3 sensors per bank, one in the Cat Converter body. The goal is to tweak the mixture in order to keep the Cat Converter at optimal temperature. Too cold and it will not reduce emissions enough, too hot and you melt it. If it was a two sensor system, you would be correct (upstream and post cat)
Last edited by FType17; 10-31-2018 at 08:14 AM.
The following users liked this post:
SinF (10-31-2018)
#31
Originally Posted by FType17
Opening up both the front bumper side vents cools down the cat converters at speeds over 40MPH (tested on SVR and R).
Never noticed these vents were non-functional!
I already removed the engine covers...LOVE the way the heat from the vents shimmers my view over the bonnet when stopped in traffic.
#32
Thank you everyone for the help and recommendations!! Very helpful! I’ll post soon as to what the next mod I’m going to go through with.
p.s. I have a error on the dash “e-differential unavailable” I can’t go into race or snow/ice mode, it makes me spin 1,2,3 gear. Any suggestions as to what might be causing it?
p.s. I have a error on the dash “e-differential unavailable” I can’t go into race or snow/ice mode, it makes me spin 1,2,3 gear. Any suggestions as to what might be causing it?
#33
Thank you everyone for the help and recommendations!! Very helpful! I’ll post soon as to what the next mod I’m going to go through with.
p.s. I have a error on the dash “e-differential unavailable” I can’t go into race or snow/ice mode, it makes me spin 1,2,3 gear. Any suggestions as to what might be causing it?
p.s. I have a error on the dash “e-differential unavailable” I can’t go into race or snow/ice mode, it makes me spin 1,2,3 gear. Any suggestions as to what might be causing it?
#34
#35
If you search back, I posted a picture of where the injectors go and need to be drilled. You will need a 2 injector system, they can configure it for you. Essentially they start with the Mustang 4.6SC kit, go with braided lines and not Nylon
#36
@FType17
One more avenue for better cooling that wasn't discussing. Supercharger work. I think SC rotors are coated, but can you confirm this is the case? Any point in coating anything other than rotors? Also, would port and polish have any effect on temps? (all assuming OEM tune).
Last but not least, if you willing to elaborate on your " head optimization and thermal coating " mod, I would be very curious to read about it.
One more avenue for better cooling that wasn't discussing. Supercharger work. I think SC rotors are coated, but can you confirm this is the case? Any point in coating anything other than rotors? Also, would port and polish have any effect on temps? (all assuming OEM tune).
Last but not least, if you willing to elaborate on your " head optimization and thermal coating " mod, I would be very curious to read about it.
#37
#38
@FType17
One more avenue for better cooling that wasn't discussing. Supercharger work. I think SC rotors are coated, but can you confirm this is the case? Any point in coating anything other than rotors? Also, would port and polish have any effect on temps? (all assuming OEM tune).
Last but not least, if you willing to elaborate on your " head optimization and thermal coating " mod, I would be very curious to read about it.
One more avenue for better cooling that wasn't discussing. Supercharger work. I think SC rotors are coated, but can you confirm this is the case? Any point in coating anything other than rotors? Also, would port and polish have any effect on temps? (all assuming OEM tune).
Last but not least, if you willing to elaborate on your " head optimization and thermal coating " mod, I would be very curious to read about it.
Last edited by FType17; 11-01-2018 at 10:05 AM.
#39
@FType17
One more avenue for better cooling that wasn't discussing. Supercharger work. I think SC rotors are coated, but can you confirm this is the case? Any point in coating anything other than rotors? Also, would port and polish have any effect on temps? (all assuming OEM tune).
Last but not least, if you willing to elaborate on your " head optimization and thermal coating " mod, I would be very curious to read about it.
One more avenue for better cooling that wasn't discussing. Supercharger work. I think SC rotors are coated, but can you confirm this is the case? Any point in coating anything other than rotors? Also, would port and polish have any effect on temps? (all assuming OEM tune).
Last but not least, if you willing to elaborate on your " head optimization and thermal coating " mod, I would be very curious to read about it.
#40
the e-diff came on before I ever even went to the track, it’s been about 2-3 weeks now with the ediff unavailable problem.