There's one currently out there, a custom shops' Bronco, but the Taycan does have dual gears that drivers can't access, but there's hopes on the horizon we'll be able to row EVs.
https://robbreport.com/motors/cars/m...re-1234774864/

 

I'v never driven one, but I understand that in the iPace at least you can set the level of regeneration which essentially works like an engine brake, creating more juice (reminds me of the old dynamo we had as kids to power lights on bikes). Anyway, so the more regen that's on, the more it engine brakes, the more juice is created, so much so that the Jag service guy said that in traffic you were increasing range, whereas on the open road with regeneration dialed down, it chewed through the juice.

Anyway, it occurred to me at the time that you could link regeneration levels to like a 4 speed shifter instead of doing it through a screen, eg 4th is like minimal regeneration so you are coasting, you come up on a windy bit of the road, shift down to second to increase engine braking and stop the wafty feeling. If you are in traffic, leave it in first - max engine braking. Dunno if that is feasible, but it'd be better than nothing.

 

With the new BMW i4s you can easily do 'one-pedal' driving if you put it in the regen mode. We had a track day with them and you could do hot laps around an autocross course, all without touching the brake pedal. It takes some getting used to but it really does negate the need for shifting at all.

 

Due to my unique job in business aviation, I get to drive all manner of EV's and supercars. I've driven many of the world's best supercars, including the LaFerrari, Enzo, Mc F1 and a bunch of more modern stuff. Including some prototype EV's [before PBIR (Palm Beach Intl Raceway, the old Moroso racetrack) was being converted into Amazon warehouses]

In a nutshell, performance EV's are a flat out riot to drive. Despite the claims that "engine noise and shifting is essential", it is my opinion that nothing could be further from the truth. They are not silent, you know you are making power, and the power is intoxicating. I see no reason to introduce "aspects of the past" just to appease. It's akin to requiring steam train characteristics or DC3 prop noise on modern cars and airplanes.

When flying a fast jet, the pilot does not really hear the engine in the same manner as flying a P51 Mustang, nor does the pilot have all manner of mechanical engine and prop controls. Yet, the thrill remains epic.

 

Just a personal thought about the F-Type appropriate to this forum and my post above. The F-Type is a nice bridge between a modern supercar and a typical performance car. People have this mistaken idea that modern supercars are capable of insane cornering speeds (that's why inexperienced drivers crash them). The fact is, they can't achieve more than a touch more speed in the fast corners over a well set up F-Type. In a 50m radius corner, the difference between a 1G F-Type and a 1.2G supercar (if the supercar is on sticky street legal unobtainum tires) is 4MPH!

 

Too bad its not that simple. I've done over 2000 on-track wiles with F-Type Rs, so I know what they can do. I really wish the suspension had another "step", like a "track mode" to tighten it up a bit more. If you think there's not a significant difference between the F-Type and something like a McLaren 570 or Ferrari F8, never mind a Senna or or something of that nature, you are just fooling yourself.

FYI: A manual EV is one that you have to pedal to generate the electricity to run the motors!

 

What I was trying to say is that it's halfway between a supercar and a pedestrian car, occupying a nice place between the two. A true GT car if you will.

When it comes down to it, the Plaid is a riot, despite being a family sedan. It also suffers from the limitations of street cars, and it has some serious mass.

I do like the F8, I wonder just how much faster it is at VIR vs. a well prepped F-Type. Prob at least 10 seconds.

 

For me, it is more what can you do to make a daily driver enjoyable. I have a Mustang manual which I drive 3 - 4 days a week, row the gears, get some noise, push it around. It is a lot of fun even just doddling around, you dont need to break a rule to have engagement. Then the F Type, which is up another level, but your fun comes when it is winding up, squirting around corners, accelerating. You can have fun at street legal speeds with the noise, acceleration, paddle shifting and handling, but you get it on a little track and it is fantastic, you have to suck on a lemon to take the smile of your face. So then you get to the electric super or hypercars (which I havent driven), the acceleration is just so instant and relentless I guess you'd need to be on the track to get them up to the fun zone.

But then a mate of mine has a stable of cars including a 456 (which he loves) and has had a few Mclarens (none of which stuck because he reckons they are boring to drive slow and insane when you put your foot down), he already had one model 3 in the family and just got the sporty version, he loves them and also likes the anonymity that comes with having one, and I guess he'd know.

 

I did actually briefly attend an EV track day but the experience isn't quite the same for the spectator.

They look like fun to take around a track though, as are manual cars, but I would rather drive and listen to my auto V12 on normal roads.

 

I doubt I'll get away from ice, but to be very honest, my polestar has 65 more horsepower and it launches like a spaceship, so I'm not mad at Evs.

I've got to imagine the people against electric vehicles really haven't had a chance to enjoy driving them? I'm not sure how you could be mad at them. They are a laugh riot, and there is plenty of room for all types.

 

screw that. EVs suck! Ill never drive one. Half the fun of a powerful car, is the sound. Its the soul of a car and i dont care how fast it is. And yes, I've driven one. My buddy has a Tesla Plaid. BORING! I want to hear thunder, not a vacuum cleaner. Also, he gets about 120 miles per charge. Nobody I know gets 300 miles out of their EVs. You can if you drive like a grandma all the time. *** that, it's just another way to control people. Shut off electricity and you're screwed. Plus, they're horrible for the environment (mining, manufacturing, disposal, etc.). Wake up people, do t buy into this propaganda. China, Russia, and India pollute 100 times worse than the US and they'll never clean up their acts.

 

BTW....would you happen to have the daytime temperature in Guangzhou??

 

You are not kidding on that one! It's kind of like when certain tracks required full mufflers on Sunday. Nowhere near as fun to observe.

 

I think that many of us are thinking the same thing. But we would do well to remember gasoline rationing and road closures.

I will say that the Plaid will go far more than 120 miles at any semi-legal speed. One would have to be travelling over 130MPH to get the range down that low.

https://insideevs.com/reviews/543687...-s-range-test/

 

Ignoring the fact that, performance-wise, electric cars are one-trick ponies, this whole EV thing is over-hyped and realities are being ignored. Even the best batteries are not a very efficient means of energy, the materials needed just create a different critical supply chain that can be problematic, the electric grid capability and source of that power are problems, and the disposal and real environmental impact of batteries on a large scale are going to be a problem. Don't even mention the increased cost of cars on top of the increase we've already had over the last couple of years and the simple logistics for all those people that park on the street or other locations where they can't charge overnight.

Sorry, but the current "plan" is a really bad idea. This plan is now being pushed by a combination of naive people and people that have figured out how they can exploit the situation for their own gain. The really bad aspect of this situation is that effort is not being put into finding better solutions.to the real overall issues.

I'm still going to just wait for Mr. Fusion.

 

I remember, as a participant in Showroom Stock racing in the '80s...
If you were a big fan of tire squealing, it wasn't so bad. otherwise, it was a bit of a put-off, all those muffled cars running silently around the track.

 

There are hurdles to overcome with EVs, no question about that. But, there are major problems with ICE as well.

Batteries are decent now, and will get better. They are also highly recyclable.

Supply chain issues are a good point but a wash compared to oil.

The world is moving toward renewable energy and the grid's will be upgraded to support that. But, there is a real danger that we could fail to make the grid
upgrades quickly enough to keep pace with EV sales targets. Of course, we are already failing to keep pace with our greenhouse gas reduction targets.

EVs are MUCH cheaper to operate, greatly reduced fuel costs and maintenance. More expensive upfront, but cheaper in the long run. This may not benefit those of us who trade cars often, but many folks drive their daily drivers for 10 years or more.

What I have read is that even running on fossil fuel generated energy they are about 40% less polluting.

Having lived in LA in the 80's I really appreciate the reduction in smog.

I enjoy working an MT as much as anyone, and love the F's sound, but in terms of handling, lap times, etc. they are the real deal. Lack of the need to shift will make it easier to turn fast laps. We can mourn the "separate the men from the boys" aspect of that, but with rev matching, torque vectoring, ABS, etc we are all driving cars that make speed easier already.

Jay_Davis, what do you consider the real issues to be?

 

"Recycling" of these batteries is mostly PR. They reuse batteries not efficient enough for one purpose for others, but they eventually need to be disposed of. Recycling the materials is much more expensive, just like "recycling" of plastics and other stuff in your house, which is whya lot of those items you sent to be "recycled" end up in a landfill because its cheaper.

Batteries are also heavy, making the cars heavier. That means everyone is going through tires faster. Tire rubber doesn't evaporate. Look up what all that rubber being put into the environment does. Heavier cars means this gets worse. Heaver also means they use more energy to move them around, regardless of the source. Batteries are simply an inefficient energy source, both by weight and volume.

As far as "EVs" being cheaper in the long run. Look at some real analysis of that and how long (how many miles) it takes to hit the break even point, it takes a while. With lots of remote workers now, people are driving less miles, so many more people will never hit that break-even point. Add to that the cost of replacing batteries and people will scrap EV cars much earlier, so how many cars will actually hit that break even point?

Then really start to get into "unintended consequences:". People build a solar farm and find out those solar panels absorbing all the heat at that scale changes wind/weather patterns. Now do that on a larger scale and see what problems those and other methods cause.

Or how about the fact that random events can cause climate change. A good volcano can cause global temperatures to go down by a few degrees. Yes, climate change will have an impact, but historically speaking, warmer is better for life than colder. Warmer and more CO2 means more and larger plants. More plants means more O2. More O2 means more/larger other types of life.That life just needs to adapt.

Regardless of the exact change, somehow people believe that EV/less CO2 will prevent climate change, which is outright FALSE. The climate will change, with or without us. We need to work on either/both preparing for change or really managing the environment, at a terraforming scale. To do any of that, the first step is to be able to generate large amounts of power cleanly. Then, once the cost of energy is minuscule, you can start doing things that are energy inefficient, but beneficial. Such as synthesizing clean burning gas while at the same time pulling CO2 out of the atmosphere to use as part of that process, creating a neutral loop, and being able to control the amount of CO2 and other gasses in the atmosphere based upon the current conditions.

In the short run, EVs make sense for commercial vehicles, like trucks and buses. As pointed out, you also get the side effect of cleaner air in cities. I'm sure their are other applications where they make sense too, like landscaping equipment. But forcing its use for everyone and everything is yet another case of people ignoring reality, which seems to be the biggest pandemic we face, especially here in the US.

 

All good points. One point I would make is that, in my reading on the subject, the factual case against EVs is not as clear as you see it to be.

Another point is that there is, of course, natural climate change. But our greenhouse gas emissions are accelerating that to a pace that we and our natural ecosystem are likely to have a lot of hardship adapting to. Look at the famine in Africa today. We don't have the knowledge to KNOW if man made climate change is making the drought worse, but it fits the predictions.

If not EV's for personal transportation what do you recommend?

 

BTW, another thing nobody mentions is that the battery life decreases from day one. So, sure you might get 200 miles out of a charge, but after a couple years, cut that in half. As for road closures and rationing, looks like we will be in Mad Max Road Warrior territory...

No reason to ration. We have over 200 years of petroleum in the United States if the Green New Deal nuts would allow drilling...

If you want an EV, get one, but don't force it on those of us who don't want them. Free country, but who knows how much longer.