I am praying for seaweed based gas or some other biofuel for $5/gallan that is 95 octane. I'd pay that....clean burning, etc., etc. Porsche was making syntheitc fuel they felt was likely at about $8/gallon scaled up...that is maybe a bit too high for normal people (911 owners won't care).

Interesting times...

 

2 stories made the news here in Canada. 2 different guys had their batteries die in the Hyundai Ionic 5s. 50k to 60k CND to replace the battery:


So it’s not always playing out like you are suggesting, and in the case of Tesla for the 15k to 20k US you are not getting a new battery either. Some used refurb thing…

 

But the car was manifestly superior in most respects to the horse and buggy for most use cases, and didn't fill towns with manure. And horses are still available for those that want them. EVs are intended to completely obsolete ICEVs and if regulators have their way we won't even be able to buy ICEVs in future.

 

Folks who have never read about the good old horse and buggy days should bone up on the absolute horror it was to live then. It wasn't just the manure and horse urine that polluted the streets and had to be dealt with, but the horse carcasses as well. It wasn't uncommon for horses to expire while on duty and of course the remains had to be disposed of as well. From what I've read the stench on a hot summer day in a large city could be quite offensive.

 

Not arguing... nor am I advocating the return of horse and buggy days. As Sarah pointed out, those were dirty, smelly times.

But also, historically it was not uncommon to have city streets darkened by coal smoke and soot, esp. in cities like Pittsburg with the steel mills close by. And even I remember the orange skies over the 'City of Angels' back in the 60's. As I see it, EV's are just one more (logical?) step getting 'back' to what many people wish to consider to be a normal environment.

And while I agree that current governmental philosophy seems to want to prevent future sales of gas powered vehicles, there's still a loong way to go before ICE's disappear completely. And as long as ICE advocates desire to continue to use these vehicles, the price of gasoline will continue to rise, and there will be corporations that will continue to use existing technologies and storage capabilities to meet that desire.

I plan to continue to enjoy my F-type as long as I can. But I'm not blind to the benefits AND costs of alternatively-powered transportation. IMO, lithium ion vehicles are the greatest example of greenwashing spin that has been foisted on public awareness. However, it appears that it's here to stay, like a gravy stain on my new pants.

 

ICE vehicles aren't going away, at least not in my lifetime ('m hoping for 40 more years LOL) and I'm sure in 100 years there will be ICE cars that collectors will keep running.

Lithium's time is going to be limited, sodium-ion batteries are going to be the gamechanger here as the tech has already been created to manufacture a sodium-ion battery that holds as much energy and works as well as some commercial lithium-ion battery chemistries.

It's amazing and exciting to see the tech that is coming on-line in the near future, I think about how much has changed in my time and I can't even imagine what today's kids will have when they're my age.

https://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...North-Carolina

https://claycorp.com/project/aesc-li-ion-battery-plant

https://www.group14.technology/our-technology/

 

See? All kinds of new technologies in the works... all (well, most) better than LiON. My hope is that what bubbles to the top would be something that doesn't involved rare-earth elements, or even mining at all - land or sea. For example, solid state batteries, or - dare I say it - cold fusion. But that'll pretty much upset all those global corporations that have already invested heavily in mining equipment and technologies.

But... this thread has gone somewhat astray.

To bring it back, IMHO, how well Jaguar does in the future will depend on how their new JEA architecture will accommodate any or all of the new technologies that are coming down the pike. Historically, Jaguar engineers have shown what they can do with advancing ICE technology (e.g. the XK DOHC I6 engine, and even the AJ133 V8's / AJ126 V6's). And they're now showing what they can do in EV tech with Formula E GEN4.

I'm withholding judgement on Jaguar's future, as I don't really know enough to foretell anybody's future. But, it does appear that they've turned the page on ICE vehicles. Sad...

 

It's almost never a matter of what it becomes, instead, it's about how we get there. There are reasons why we enjoy what we do in North America compared to the ROW. If you allow the political to exert too much control over the economic sphere, you are going to stifle innovation and productivity, the two factors which have kept the West on top for a few centuries now.

I don't think anybody has anything against EVs in and of themselves. If they make more sense, then by all means. The problem is when institutions become ideological and attach themselves to a technology or methodology that has no reason to prevail in a practical sense. OTOH, let people buy whatever they wish and they will win or lose based on the viability of their decision as it applies their own life.

The latest fad in my town seems to be Rivians, as I see bunches of upper middle class moms in these over-priced blocks hauling the latest generation of kids to their after school activities.

 

Do the sodium-ion batteries obviate the potential for spontaneous thermal runaway - that IMO is the biggest downside to modern EVs. And while "more ICEVs catch fire than EVs" I think a lot of that is down to the fact that the burning ICEVs are probably older and less well maintained compared to the relative newness of the EV fleet. The issue with EV fires is consequence not frequency.

 

In the US, large metropolitan areas have already been struggling to keep up with energy demand, particularly in the summers in states with comparatively hot summers when everybody is running their home HVAC all day and night. Rolling brownouts and blackouts are not that uncommon in those areas during heat waves, as means for electric companies to try to allocate limited supply to excessive demand. This is before we get to the prospect of millions, or perhaps tens of millions, of EV owners plugging in their electricity-guzzling vehicles every single night. Their power consumption is off-the-charts compared to any other household appliances, including HVAC, which is why they need special charging stations installed as opposed to just plugging them into normal electrical outlets. That by far is the biggest downside to modern EVs in the US at scale. With the insistence on "green energy" (which usually isn't the least bit green, and all have relatively short lifespans, but that's a whole different topic...) we are spending way more money for far less actual energy output (compared to say nuclear or even traditional coal/natural gas burning plants), and we're nowhere near what it would take to support the general majority of the driving population switching to EVs in one fell swoop, as our gov is trying their hardest to do, free market and the will of the people be damned.

These car companies are drunk on the subsidies and credits that are propping up the artificial EV market. These aren't even remotely practical or pragmatic based on the current energy grid. We're not even close (seriously, run the numbers, *nowhere* close) to being ready for EV adoption en masse in the US, but here we are being coerced that direction. I also don't think we (society) are ready for the plummet in value for these batteries on wheels. ICE engines (w/ basic and well-documented maintenance) run forever. It's why we still have ICE vehicles from the 90's, 80's, and sometimes further back still on the road as daily drivers. Battery technology does not follow that same arch. When all these EVs' batteries hit the wall, how many drivers are going to replace the outrageously expensive batteries? Will used car lots even want to buy or be able to sell these vehicles w/ a $10k+ USD maintenance nightmare necessary to get any meaningful driving out of them as a used car?

tldr; We proved the "can we" aspect on EVs before having the more important "should we" discussion.

 

They should follow the lead of Australian politician Chris Bowen(?) who's on record as "seeing the future as Australians charging their EVs overnight with their solar panels". Good to know they have intelligent people running their country.

 

Assuming a politician is a dufus is a pretty safe bet, but I am sure what he meant is that the solar panels will be charging storage batteries which will then be charging the vehicle. I am in the process of building an off-grid home in Nicaragua and will be "using the solar panels" to power my house at night, as well.

 

I bet he hadn't thought that far into it!

 

Chris "Blackouts" Bowen is our current Minister for Climate Change and Energy and he really is a complete doofus.
Having a government department named "Climate Change and Energy" has gotta be the most egregious contradiction in terms in history.