New Owner Critique...
#21
04-22-2018, 07:46 PM
Veteran Member
[QUOTE=Suaro;1882085]Since #4 was mine I will tell you the F was not my first choice. As for doing research I had my first Jag in grad school an XK-150, then I had a XK-8 for 15 years. So I figured I knew the marque. Both of those cars were more successful than the F as far as I am concerned. But come on, when you buy a 70-125K car do you really look to see if it has a mute button. I knew it had no trunk capacity, no spare, semi-manual seats, no memory, no home link, no back up camera, no front sensors, limited visibility, no driver assists, no BLIS, and no voice control, but its a winter car, that I only use for maybe 4000 miles a year. I guessed I could put up with the shortcomings. Did I buy it for the looks, no I bought it because it was so damn cheap. QUOTE]
Uh, hm..... well, my F-Type has pretty much all the things (and more) you say that yours does not - but then I knew what I wanted in my F-Type so I made sure that I bought one that was equipped (exactly) as I wanted it (every option), so all of the issues you find with your car are non-issues with mine.
That, to me, seems only common sense. If you want a house with a swimming pool but knowingly buy one without, should you complain later that the house is a disappointment because it has no pool?
You trashed the F-Type in general terms without telling us that the reason you don't like it is that *you* opted to buy one without the features you wanted simply because it was cheap. 🤔
The problem is clearly not with the F-Type in general; it is with *your* F-Type for reasons of your own.
Uh, hm..... well, my F-Type has pretty much all the things (and more) you say that yours does not - but then I knew what I wanted in my F-Type so I made sure that I bought one that was equipped (exactly) as I wanted it (every option), so all of the issues you find with your car are non-issues with mine.
That, to me, seems only common sense. If you want a house with a swimming pool but knowingly buy one without, should you complain later that the house is a disappointment because it has no pool?
You trashed the F-Type in general terms without telling us that the reason you don't like it is that *you* opted to buy one without the features you wanted simply because it was cheap. 🤔
The problem is clearly not with the F-Type in general; it is with *your* F-Type for reasons of your own.
#22
04-22-2018, 08:13 PM
Sov (Greg), you are not going to get an argument from me. If I had been willing to spend another 40K, I could have had everything I wanted (and be 40K lighter).
I have never complained about what the F is, only about what it isn't.
The early F's simply were not state of the art, other than in sound production, and the sales numbers bear that out, from what you say maybe the currents F's are more competitive. I am more than willing to hear that a MY 2019 Jag has a tech and convenience level that will equal or exceed an MB with the P3 package.
Truly not to be argumentative, but my MY12 MB has more tech than the MY14 F, but my O4 (yes MY04) Volvo V70R has a dynamic chassis that puts my MY14 F to shame. Can you imagine that 10 years older and it has a dynamic chassis.
I am willing to learn. But I am not eager to pay top dollar for less than top dollar content.
I have never complained about what the F is, only about what it isn't.
The early F's simply were not state of the art, other than in sound production, and the sales numbers bear that out, from what you say maybe the currents F's are more competitive. I am more than willing to hear that a MY 2019 Jag has a tech and convenience level that will equal or exceed an MB with the P3 package.
Truly not to be argumentative, but my MY12 MB has more tech than the MY14 F, but my O4 (yes MY04) Volvo V70R has a dynamic chassis that puts my MY14 F to shame. Can you imagine that 10 years older and it has a dynamic chassis.
I am willing to learn. But I am not eager to pay top dollar for less than top dollar content.
Last edited by Suaro; 04-22-2018 at 09:05 PM.
#23
04-22-2018, 08:18 PM
Veteran Member
I bought mine for the looks, sound and driving (combo GT and sport). When you buy something for low price you often live with its shortcomings. For what the f type is, it is reasonable in the tradeoffs. I waited for a 16 that has most everything. HUD would be nice but not essential. But we can always demand more and should. Couldn't agree more on the stuck on iPads e.g. Audi's and MBs.
Last edited by jaguny; 04-22-2018 at 08:20 PM.
#24
04-22-2018, 08:34 PM
Veteran Member
I had an 04 S60R and really I'd have to disagree with you on the chassis putting the f type to shame. Dont get me wrong, I loved the car, I had the ECU remapped and it was in a manual with some slotted calipers and braided lines and it was wicked fast for those days but the chassis - what a tragedy it was...
It had 3 suspension/throttle modes - comfort (read sloppy), sport (acceptable), and advanced (throttle great, suspension so hard it shatters your teeth). But no matter what mode, it had a tremendous amount of engine weight sitting in front of the front weels (with an FWD bias AWD) so it would understeer like crazy and also wallow at launch.
Then there was the turning circle - about 14m from memory. What should be a u-turn becomes a 3 point turn. What should be a 3 point turn becomes a 5 point turn. Oh, and that is assuming that you dont put spacers on the wheels to stop them rubbing. If you do that the turning circle gets bigger still. When I was having it modded, the recommendation was to throw out the suspension and start again.
But on the plus side, I'd be happy to drive it faster than any of my Jags in a straight line, it felt glued to the road until you come to a corner. And the brakes (4 piston Brembos) were epic.
I can remember seeing one taken around the track on Top Gear. "Disappointing" would be putting it mildly...
It had 3 suspension/throttle modes - comfort (read sloppy), sport (acceptable), and advanced (throttle great, suspension so hard it shatters your teeth). But no matter what mode, it had a tremendous amount of engine weight sitting in front of the front weels (with an FWD bias AWD) so it would understeer like crazy and also wallow at launch.
Then there was the turning circle - about 14m from memory. What should be a u-turn becomes a 3 point turn. What should be a 3 point turn becomes a 5 point turn. Oh, and that is assuming that you dont put spacers on the wheels to stop them rubbing. If you do that the turning circle gets bigger still. When I was having it modded, the recommendation was to throw out the suspension and start again.
But on the plus side, I'd be happy to drive it faster than any of my Jags in a straight line, it felt glued to the road until you come to a corner. And the brakes (4 piston Brembos) were epic.
I can remember seeing one taken around the track on Top Gear. "Disappointing" would be putting it mildly...
#25
04-22-2018, 08:45 PM
Bruce, the turning radius on the Volvo R cars was indeed memorable. 38" for my V70R equal to the turning radius on my brother's Chevy Suburban. And you forgot to mention tearing off the front facia that has about 4" of clearance. But the Brembos are the best (epic is a good word, and they didn't cost 12K extra), and the 9.5" Pegasus wheels are excellent.
The adjustable chassis is a big thing to me because we have a lot of primitive roads in Arizona. The V70R could be set to Comfort and your fillings stopped rattling. On the F they just keep shaking.
You are absolutely right about fast. You could wind it up to 150 and it felt as solid as a brick. Great for going over to San Diego.
The adjustable chassis is a big thing to me because we have a lot of primitive roads in Arizona. The V70R could be set to Comfort and your fillings stopped rattling. On the F they just keep shaking.
You are absolutely right about fast. You could wind it up to 150 and it felt as solid as a brick. Great for going over to San Diego.
Last edited by Suaro; 04-22-2018 at 08:48 PM.
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BruceTheQuail (04-22-2018)
#26
04-22-2018, 09:14 PM
Senior Member
There is a car for every task and to expect that a car meets every single requirement is absurd. The gauge comment made me laugh... I purchased a brand new 2017 F-Type, it had every single option except for the carboceramic brakes, it has all the electronics I can use and knowing the oil temperature isn't a big deal at all to me. It drives well, stops on a dime, performs just like I want it to and even it it had no radio, I would be perfectly happy because the only sound I enjoy while driving it is the one that comes out of the tailpipes. If you want tons of gauges, there's teh GTR, if you want purist performance get a Porsche. The lines of the F-Type makes it rolling art.
#27
04-22-2018, 09:27 PM
#28
04-22-2018, 09:34 PM
Veteran Member
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FType17 (04-22-2018)
#31
04-22-2018, 10:02 PM
Member
I’m only a few weeks into my ownership of my car. I have owned V8 and V12 Vantage’s (Similar), as well a dis-similar cars like the Cayman R, Spyder and Boxster S in the world of Porsche, an R8 V10 and an Alfa 4C and Lotus 211 along the way.
None of these cars are perfect and most have left me wanting in some way. But that is the point of a well designed car. It executes for an ideal purchaser and that means its not perfect for others.
The Jaguar is less than perfect, but it is unique and it is a fun ownership proposition. So far I’m really enjoying it, most;y because I’m not pretending its a Porsche, or a MB. It’s a cool British muscle car. I do I wish it was lighter and more hard core, but at this price point, I pretty happy.
My initial thoughts:
- It’s a well built car, the interior is far better than all the belly aching would suggest.
- The infotainment is fine for me. Mine is the 2018 model. I am not a fan of Apple Car play, so I have no concerns about it not being available.
- The seating position is great, but this is not a car that makes you one with the road in the same way as a Porsche or mid-engined car. Like my Astons the hood just ends somewhere out there. It always feels so much bigger than it is. The inside and outside of the car are almost a magic trick. I’m not too tall, so it works well for me. My wife also prefers being a passenger than any other car I have had in a while.
- It is closer to GT than “sportscar”. Motorized heating vents and trunk releases give you a clue as to the enormous weight. Actually its closer to a muscle car or an older AMG (not the GTS) than a true sportscar. On the road, that suits me just fine. This car is our theatre.
- On the road it’s actually too fast. At city speeds, my Alfa 4C and Porsche Spyder were more fun as you could actually wring their neck without getting arrested. This car has a huge push that rockets you to the legal limit before you can really get joy from the exhaust. That’s a shame in a way because it sound glorious.
- The exhaust over run is stupid and I like stupid. It gives you a real sense of occasion. That theatre is what is missing from so many very capable cars. Most of us do not have a race track or unregulated highway near us, that exhaust is tells us we aren’t in a BMW M4.
- that big lump of tourque is fantastic.
- Its a barge. How is the 2 seater F Type hundreds of pounds heavier than a steel bodied, four seater Mustang GT350?
- this car is a bargain. Even though a Mustang can whip its butt on beer money, the Jaguar plays a different game. It is more gentleman’s muscle car than “sportscar” or track hero.
>>
Versus a last Gen Aston Martin, I would say they are a very similar experience. The Jaguar feels newer. the AWD is actually much less “lairey” than the V12 Vantage. The Vantage had a few more bespoke bits, but the Jaguar has more modern bits that work inside. The Astons had a bench behind the seats and that really did open things up. That said the panoramic roof in the Jag opens things up in a different way.
The seating position is so very similar. That high dash, low roof, perfect steering wheel and pedal placement. Very nice. But its more “In the car, than On the road”
My Astons were manuals and that was more fun than the auto in the Jaguar, but I doubt faster. That said I always found the Aston to be, not the best Heel Toe transmission. My Porsches were technically much better, but I strangely preferred the Jaguar(unless on a race track. The Aston was useless there. the Porsches were Gods).
- The steering was better in the Astons too as it was a gift from the Gods and hydraulic. The Jaguar feels a little too light for me.
- The engines in both cars gave up the ghost before 7000 rpms. I feel like the Aston spooled up faster, but I doubt that is actually true. The Jaguar is a torque monster and I do approve.
- They both sound fantastic in different ways. Guttural = Jaguar. The Aston is deeper, more refined, though I think louder on cold weather start up.
- All in all, the Jaguar is likely the better of the two, but the more analog and lighter Aston has a special allure all its own. Niether are race cars.
- It reminds me of my older Vantage, and that’s the problem, the new Vantage has moved the plot along and it is lighter and more focused. Let’s hope Jaguar is paying attention.
None of these cars are perfect and most have left me wanting in some way. But that is the point of a well designed car. It executes for an ideal purchaser and that means its not perfect for others.
The Jaguar is less than perfect, but it is unique and it is a fun ownership proposition. So far I’m really enjoying it, most;y because I’m not pretending its a Porsche, or a MB. It’s a cool British muscle car. I do I wish it was lighter and more hard core, but at this price point, I pretty happy.
My initial thoughts:
- It’s a well built car, the interior is far better than all the belly aching would suggest.
- The infotainment is fine for me. Mine is the 2018 model. I am not a fan of Apple Car play, so I have no concerns about it not being available.
- The seating position is great, but this is not a car that makes you one with the road in the same way as a Porsche or mid-engined car. Like my Astons the hood just ends somewhere out there. It always feels so much bigger than it is. The inside and outside of the car are almost a magic trick. I’m not too tall, so it works well for me. My wife also prefers being a passenger than any other car I have had in a while.
- It is closer to GT than “sportscar”. Motorized heating vents and trunk releases give you a clue as to the enormous weight. Actually its closer to a muscle car or an older AMG (not the GTS) than a true sportscar. On the road, that suits me just fine. This car is our theatre.
- On the road it’s actually too fast. At city speeds, my Alfa 4C and Porsche Spyder were more fun as you could actually wring their neck without getting arrested. This car has a huge push that rockets you to the legal limit before you can really get joy from the exhaust. That’s a shame in a way because it sound glorious.
- The exhaust over run is stupid and I like stupid. It gives you a real sense of occasion. That theatre is what is missing from so many very capable cars. Most of us do not have a race track or unregulated highway near us, that exhaust is tells us we aren’t in a BMW M4.
- that big lump of tourque is fantastic.
- Its a barge. How is the 2 seater F Type hundreds of pounds heavier than a steel bodied, four seater Mustang GT350?
- this car is a bargain. Even though a Mustang can whip its butt on beer money, the Jaguar plays a different game. It is more gentleman’s muscle car than “sportscar” or track hero.
>>
Versus a last Gen Aston Martin, I would say they are a very similar experience. The Jaguar feels newer. the AWD is actually much less “lairey” than the V12 Vantage. The Vantage had a few more bespoke bits, but the Jaguar has more modern bits that work inside. The Astons had a bench behind the seats and that really did open things up. That said the panoramic roof in the Jag opens things up in a different way.
The seating position is so very similar. That high dash, low roof, perfect steering wheel and pedal placement. Very nice. But its more “In the car, than On the road”
My Astons were manuals and that was more fun than the auto in the Jaguar, but I doubt faster. That said I always found the Aston to be, not the best Heel Toe transmission. My Porsches were technically much better, but I strangely preferred the Jaguar(unless on a race track. The Aston was useless there. the Porsches were Gods).
- The steering was better in the Astons too as it was a gift from the Gods and hydraulic. The Jaguar feels a little too light for me.
- The engines in both cars gave up the ghost before 7000 rpms. I feel like the Aston spooled up faster, but I doubt that is actually true. The Jaguar is a torque monster and I do approve.
- They both sound fantastic in different ways. Guttural = Jaguar. The Aston is deeper, more refined, though I think louder on cold weather start up.
- All in all, the Jaguar is likely the better of the two, but the more analog and lighter Aston has a special allure all its own. Niether are race cars.
- It reminds me of my older Vantage, and that’s the problem, the new Vantage has moved the plot along and it is lighter and more focused. Let’s hope Jaguar is paying attention.
Last edited by BlackPenquinn; 04-22-2018 at 10:34 PM.
#32
04-22-2018, 10:14 PM
Veteran Member
A lot of the upgraded tech appears to have been introduced on the MY2016 (U.S.) cars. (Infotainment, actual tire pressures, eco stop/start battery delete, maybe more).
#34
04-22-2018, 10:32 PM
Ok, I'll go along with that. I would have no reluctance to trade the '14 in on a '16 this fall. I expect it would not cost me very much. I have a great sales guy and I will give him a heads up for a loaded to the gills '16. Before you all think I am a spavined idiot, I have been working with this guy for 15 years and he has never failed me. Life in the desert may be bleak, but its honest.
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ndabunka (04-23-2018)
#35
04-23-2018, 01:02 AM
Veteran Member
At least in Europe the actual tire pressure came as an option on the MY15 (I have it on mine). First infotainment upgrade and eco stop/start battery delete came on the MY16.
#37
04-23-2018, 05:54 AM
Veteran Member
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FType17 (04-23-2018)
#38
04-23-2018, 09:57 PM
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#39
04-24-2018, 02:59 PM
I don't get this....I have a 15 v8s and that has nav auto headlights home link radio bluetooth dynamic options for the ride and other bells and whistles. I also have a 16 gtr and not once did I feel the f type to be outdated. Also my daily is 335 m sport fully loaded and again never felt the f type was outdated. To each there own I guess
#40
04-24-2018, 03:47 PM
Veteran Member
Sov (Greg), you are not going to get an argument from me. If I had been willing to spend another 40K, I could have had everything I wanted (and be 40K lighter).
I have never complained about what the F is, only about what it isn't.
The early F's simply were not state of the art, other than in sound production, and the sales numbers bear that out, from what you say maybe the currents F's are more competitive. I am more than willing to hear that a MY 2019 Jag has a tech and convenience level that will equal or exceed an MB with the P3 package.
Truly not to be argumentative, but my MY12 MB has more tech than the MY14 F, but my O4 (yes MY04) Volvo V70R has a dynamic chassis that puts my MY14 F to shame. Can you imagine that 10 years older and it has a dynamic chassis.
I am willing to learn. But I am not eager to pay top dollar for less than top dollar content.
I have never complained about what the F is, only about what it isn't.
The early F's simply were not state of the art, other than in sound production, and the sales numbers bear that out, from what you say maybe the currents F's are more competitive. I am more than willing to hear that a MY 2019 Jag has a tech and convenience level that will equal or exceed an MB with the P3 package.
Truly not to be argumentative, but my MY12 MB has more tech than the MY14 F, but my O4 (yes MY04) Volvo V70R has a dynamic chassis that puts my MY14 F to shame. Can you imagine that 10 years older and it has a dynamic chassis.
I am willing to learn. But I am not eager to pay top dollar for less than top dollar content.
....but then, I don't care a ton about the tech and goody stuff; I bought the car for the looks, sound and performance.
2 cents,
Dave