Originally Posted by Mahjik

Not directly at Foosh's comment, but relate to what he's talking about... Just looking at the numbers, the P-Zero is a higher performing tire.. Granted, wear ratings are not consistent across manufacturers but they are in range for pricing comparison/competing.. The P-Zero has a much lower wear rating than the PSS which seems to indicate it's a more performance oriented tire. This would support the notion that the PSS is more ride compliant and providing a balance of comfort/performance. Most "performance" oriented tires are generally skittish for those not used to them making them not feel confident in the car even though the performance threshold is increased. There is something to be said for a less performing tire instilling confidence in the driver.

That said, I doubt I would switch to the PSS. I will likely stay with the P-Zeros or look for something in a similar performance range when it's time to switch.

Originally Posted by StealthPilot

PSS is faster on track than a P Zero. Look at Tire Rack's instrumented test on the same car.

Originally Posted by Mahjik

I will say that those tests are only as good as the data provided to Tirerack (meaning Michelin spends a lot of money on ensure all tests use the optimal setup for their tires). I'm not saying to ignore those tests; but when pushing a tire you have to know it's optimal temp/pressure to get the best out of it. Depending on the tire, a little here or there can have undesirable results.

Here's 1 PSI too high on some track tires I was testing:

HPT 05 2014 01 - YouTube

Originally Posted by StealthPilot

Well it is a level playing field. The Michelin's and the Pirellis go on the same car and are driven back to back, so to me that is a perfectly valid test.

Originally Posted by StealthPilot

I am having a new set of Michelin PSS put on this Friday. I had some sidewall damage on my right side P Zeros, and decided to just get a whole new set of tires, than switch out two of them.

BTW Michelin PSS are in short supply in the R Coupe sizes - neither Tire Rack nor Discount Tire had them in stock. I had to search around before finding a supplier who had in-stock inventory. Tire Rack was quoting 30-60 days to get them in.

Originally Posted by Mahjik

That's not what I'm saying, but it doesn't matter. Obviously use whatever tire provides you the best result for your driving needs.

Originally Posted by swajames

It sounds like what you're saying is that you ignore perfectly valid data points from owners who know these tires well if they don't fit your own view of the world.

Originally Posted by swajames

It sounds like what you're saying is that you ignore perfectly valid data points from owners who know these tires well if they don't fit your own view of the world.

As you yourself pointed out, ratings on treadwear are manufacturer provided and are not to a uniform scale. Comparisons based on those are of course somewhat meaningless. A manufacturer's own rating predicting lower treadwear doesn't necessarily translate to higher performance, and I believe that to be the case here.

It's obviously up to each of us if they are happy with our OEM P Zeros but I'm not and I stand by my own assessment of the tire. They are a mediocre tire. I will be switching out to the PSS when I have time to make the change.

Originally Posted by Mahjik

Nope... Michelin spends a lot of money providing the best testing parameters for their tires. They always want their tires to show well. They are great tires, no doubt. Are they the best? Well, each individual will make up their own minds what best suits them. I've raced on a lot of tires and different manufacturers suit different drivers. Same thing will apply to street driving.

Originally Posted by swajames

You don't think Pirelli and other manufacturers would do and would want to do the same thing?

Originally Posted by Mulmur

I do recall that a magazine, possibly Car and Driver, did an in depth track test with the same car / driver, using various performance tires and the PSS was at the top of the list and Pirelli well down. It was likely a few years ago and I think someone posted the article ... maybe the XKR forum?.

Anyway, I don't remember how the other manuf. lined up, but I remember this article as it helped me decide to replace my XKR Pirelli tires with the PSS... along with a friend with an AMG gull wing and his recommendation as he races quite a bit.

I can also add that the Pirelli tire gets really noisy after about 6 or 7 thous. miles.

And yes, ultimately its personal taste.
Lawrence.

Originally Posted by swajames

Yes sir - and here it is. Nine tires tested, the PSS came top and the P Zero came last.

Monsters of Grip: Nine Summer-Performance Tires Tested Comparison Tests - Page 10 - Car and Driver

Originally Posted by Foosh

My take on that is that they included the P-Zero in the top nine performance tires to test. As I said, it may not be the best, but it is a respectable summer max performance tire.

Originally Posted by swajames

Well, I certainly appreciate your dedication to the Pirelli cause, my friend.

With that said, I think you're arguably putting lipstick on a pig.... Or proverbially polishing the turd....

It's much like high-fiving for getting the participation ribbon.

These tires are GREAT! They got eighth runner up!!

Originally Posted by swajames

Well, I certainly appreciate your dedication to the Pirelli cause, my friend.

With that said, I think you're arguably putting lipstick on a pig.... Or proverbially polishing the turd....

It's much like high-fiving for getting the participation ribbon.

These tires are GREAT! They got eighth runner up!!

Originally Posted by Mulmur

What size are you installing.. I know some have gone up to 305's on the rear. Lawrence.