Been reading various threads on software updates for our cars, most recently the update that has been made available for the stereo fix

I am so frustrated with the old way of doing things in the auto industry. If a problem has been identified and a fix issued by the manufacturer - we should be entitled to update our cars to latest software revisions for our particular model as part of keeping it serviced at a franchised dealer. The way things are setup currently the onus is on us, the owners, to identify the issue (even if it is known about) and to prove that it affects our particular car. Often we have to quote TSB numbers to our service advisors by learning about them from forums such as these.

A good example of this - I suffered the loss of exhaust noise after K309. My dealer argued with me there was nothing wrong with the car - only when I quoted the TSB number to him did he agree to do the software update - and lo and behold it fixed the issue. Without this forum I would just be living with the issue and not have resolved it.

Its no different to applying app and OS updates to my iOS or Windows devices. I don't need to prove to Apple or MS that bugs identified in my device are impacting me personally in order to download OS updates or service packs to fix them.

This is why it is a breath of fresh air to see companies like Tesla offering free software updates to ALL owners. Hopefully the rest of the motor industry is shaken up soon enough to change their oudated practices - or die out as dinosaurs and let others take over who operate in the 21st century.

 

Dealerships still stuck in mechanical device mentality when modern cars are computers with wheels. It doesn't help that manufacturers over-complicate update process to lock the cars into proprietary diagnostic systems. It doesn't help that mechanics are trained to blindly follow diagnostic tool results instead of troubleshooting.

Still fighting this one. Dealer's tool crashing applying that specific update, they have to update the tool. Doesn't sound like a lot to ask for, but they are mechanics and not IT... when you actually need IT person to fix this. I will re-visit this in the spring when the car is coming out of storage.

 

I wonder why Tesla eliminated the dealer layer in it's channel...

 

Well its probably something to do with any "warranty" work including software updates being charged back to JLR corporate by the dealership. So it's not "free" to the dealer, they still have to pay for their tech payroll and equipment and I guess they may be trying to hedge getting an invoice to JLR being denied for whatever audit reason. I don't know how hard they look at "customer said stereo sounds shitty" and how they would follow that up for verification. I suspect it’s a balancing act between the dealer wanting to submit all manner of invoices to get you the "latest version" and what JLR will permit them without auditing EVERYTHING....

And if I haven't experienced the shitty sounding stereo, do I need to leave my car with them for three hours to get it updated ? What have I gained ?

That said, while my car was hooked up for three hours to get a JustDrive firmware update, my dealer did take care of the outstanding campaigns marked on my VIN. So maybe find another dealer that is easier to work with ? And I have a pending appointment to get the hood/fender alignment looked at.

 

The model for dealers to charge back JLR is just that - a model. It can be changed. Or JLR could build that into their financial model and just offer it as part of the service to the customer.

With regards to should your car be hooked up for 3 hours for an update you don't want - it can be something you opt into - so, as part of the service do you wish to have your car updated with all recent software updates?

 

I agree the model (and it's not just JLR) is likely more based around the days when there wasn't so much software around in the cars. When I was looking for my JustDrive update, the head unit suggested I might be able to download a file to a USB stick and perform the update myself but it appears that got revoked with the site URL not carrying the file any more.

To be fair to the dealers, if everybody was in getting software updates whenever they came out just so they could be on the latest release, I doubt they'd have time for regular work. Tesla designed the system from the get go to be OTA updates. Which of course opens another can of worms if you don't have a choice to opt out ;-)

And as with other customer service issues, if you feel your needs aren't being met, notify JLR Corporate and vote with your wheels. So far, although the sales department at mine sucks, their service department seems pretty on the ball.

 

What is the tsb number to get back the pops and crackles from k309? I have yet to convince my dealers to fix the issue for me.

Thanks

 

You don't need over the air (which is inherently insecure) updates to not have it to be labor intensive. Update process should be plug in the tool, have it authenticate, then click update button and go away until it is done. 10 minutes of labor including getting the keys and moving the car from the lot. If it takes longer, then your system is poorly designed.

 

I suppose the problem depends on the dealer. Mine has applied updates with/without symptoms when I'm there for the annual service, state inspection, and oil change. I always wait for the car (since I'm 45 minutes away), and it's never been a long wait. The only exception was on my wife F-Pace which had a major ICTP reprogramming and suspension isolators replaced at the same time. For that, I took a loaner and came back the next day.

 

On the Land Rover side (which uses the same SDD tool) I have heard it can take at least twenty minutes for the system to get connected to the car and pull the data from wherever so my JustDrive update turned out to be telematics and infotainment modules and about three hours long. There are tools for enthusiasts in the LR world who can't justify the programming subscription or want to brave the hacked SDD clones from eBay, to work with various modules and that includes updating them (see BlackBox Solutions in Cyprus). So far none of those have jumped across to the Jaguar side although GAP Diagnostic is working on a Jaguar port of their LR IID tool.

I suspect however that there may be more LR tinkerers than Jaguar tinkerers to make a commercial investment doubtful leaving us relying on the nature of the relationship with our service department.

 

From talking to the Jaguar techs (and SDD users in general) that's exactly the problem, it is poorly designed (maybe layers of poor design over time)

 

Here you go:
K309v3 - Oxygen (O2) sensors
JTB00495 - Exhaust Noise Reduction
SDD145_08_V240J - Jaguar SDD software-update 145_07 release note

SDD update V145.07

"14MY > 15MY F-TYPE / X152
This update contains a software update to the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) to resolve a concern relating to the reduction of exhaust noise after an update for the oxygen sensor has been completed when following K309 Service Action.
This is to support an active Service Action K309."

 

.

 

Please point out a vehicle manufacturers diagnostic system that works this way, because i've seen & used quite a few, none of them are that simple.

 

When you say aren't that simple, what do you mean? I've only had experience with FCA's Wi-tech tool, but its pretty much a plug and play application: plug in, connect, load file/flash and then clear DTC codes. Granted there may be a few specific calibration steps depending on what module you're flashing, but in general the OEM tries to make the software extremely user friendly for the technicians. Aftermarket flash tools are the same way, extremely easy and straight forward. I'd imagine if the vehicle security was open enough for an aftermarket company to safely run a simple flash, the OEM would take full advantage as well.

 

I mean exactly what SinF said "plug in the tool, have it authenticate, then click update button and go away until it is done"

Nothing is that simple...

Maybe some aftermarket ECU flashing tools appear that simple, but that's because they bypass almost all of the system integrity checks and literally force the file into the module. Flashing the PCM in an F-Type using the factory diagnostic system requires the ignition to be cycled a half-dozen times, and the engine started. Flash it with an aftermarket tuner tool and you don't have to do any of that.

They are also constrained by what their sub suppliers insist upon. If Bosch says to JLR "it must be done this way" then that's how it needs to be done, otherwise Bosch won't support it. Just as an example.

 

I imagine every OEM is different. With our software the flash basically runs itself until it is finished, only needing a key cycle at the end and the acknowledgement that you've done so. And you could literally do that whenever; let it sit for 5 minutes or an hour after the flash has finished, the car doesn't care. When you flash the cluster software, it takes over an hour to finish. For us, the procedure is to hook the car to a battery charge; click start and come back in an hour or two to see if it finished haha

 

Maybe American cars are just less complex. Last year I did some diagnostic work on a friends F150 Lightning using the Ford IDS software, I was really surpised at how basic the F150 was was compared to a Jag of the same era.

But getting back to the F-Type, there can be up to 38 different programmable modules in a 2014 model, several more in the newer cars. It's an extremely complex network.



Actually in a new Range Rover Vogue there can be closer to 60 modules on the various networks.

How many programmable modules in a new Charger or Challenger? A lot less I imagine...

 

You got that right. Check out the last page.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/e6fp29b26h...works.pdf?dl=0

 

And speaking of FCA, I'm sure many remember the US national news story about a hacker that was able to take control of a Jeep Cherokee. FCA very quickly issued a recall, and sent a letter to all owners offering them the option of either:

1) bringing it in to a dealer for a free security reflash, or

2) using an enclosed flash drive to do it yourself.

I did it myself, with the very clear instructions provided, and it was incredibly easy. Hopefully, this is the wave of the future.