Driverless cars will be a huge benefit to the world. I'd be sad to see a world in which we aren't allowed to operate our cars on most roadways(even if I think it'd be for the best), but since the driverless cars being developed now are designed to be safer than humans around other human drivers.. I think human drivers are going to be around for quite awhile.

 

To the quarter maybe, to 60 maybe not. A lot of us thought the Hellcat would beat the last generation Tesla only to find that often the Hellcat couldn't get off the line. Hooking up when you have that much power and rear wheel only drive (and often street tires not drag radials) is a bitch.

Current Tesla 0-60 fastest time is 2.3 seconds, 2.1 on the Demon but on the Dodge Demon, to get those times you have to use race gas, install the special drag tires front and back (from the Demon crate), and remove a lot of the interior (see link below), and you need an optional controller. On the Tesla (the latest one that got an additional speed boost) you just change a setting and mash the pedal. If you don't do all of that stuff on the Demon, and can hook up (which is always a problem in a rear wheel only car) it is also a 2.3 second 0-60.

References:

Dodge Demon can actually do 0-60 mph in 2.1 seconds, but there's a catch | Fox News

Tesla 0-60 Times & Tesla Quarter Mile Times | Tesla Roadster, Model S P85, Model X & more Electric Car 0 to 60 stats!

This means, at a stoplight, in anything but perfect traction conditions, the top end Tesla would beat the Demon and would likely lead to 30 in all cases. Nothing against the Demon which is scary fast, but having 100% torque without having to build RPM and having all wheel drive is a huge advantage off the line. And remember the Demon is basically a drag car, the fast Tesla is still a street car.

Even in the quarter, if the Demon can't hook up, the Tesla would likely beat it. In the Hellcat runs often the issue is as much about getting the power down and the Hellcat's are generally running drag radials against Teslas on street tires. If it is a hooking up problem, like we discovered in the V8S and early Rs, more power doesn't fix it but can actually make the issue worse. (says the guy who has a V8S).

Couldn't find any Demon videos yet, but here is some of the Hellcat stuff. (I'm clearly killing time today): (given the timing of the races, I don't think these Teslas have the latest software patch)


in this one you get a sense that some Tesla drivers just like to go to tracks and embarrass performance car owners. But you really see the massive advantage off the line.

I'm kind of surprised this kid hasn't been shot by some Hellcat owners, he seems to do this on a regular basis. Granted I built my FX35 so I could do the same thing to Cayenne owners, and my wife likes to call out Z28s with it (apparently a lot of women drive Z28s go figure?) so I get the attraction.

But think of it, how many family cars are out there that could, on street tires, just roll up and dust something like the Hellcat? And I'll bet the Tesla would put in a better lap time than a Hellcat as well though, given the issues with both cars (handling on the Hellcat battery heat on the Tesla) it would be a stupid test.

I'll leave you with one more video, test between the Tesla and the Hellcat done back in 2015 on which car is the biggest badass. (There have been at least two major performance updates since this was done). The current one is substantially faster.


(I forgot about James Bond mode in the Tesla) By the way see if you can spot the F-Type in this video. This drives home the point about the hook up problem with the Hellcat.

Let me close by telling a likely story. Guy in a Demon pulls it to bracket racing, pulls the seats, changes all 4 wheels, loads the racing gas, and sets the optional module and now looks to dust someone. First guy that calls him out is some kid in his Dad's Tesla on street tires. He's a kid so really good reaction time and you launch in 1st not 2nd you don't hook up. And, think about it, who else is going to run against a Demon?

As noted I wouldn't buy the Tesla just not my kind of car and I think the Demon is just stupid, and I love my V8S.

Though, if I did own a Tesla I'd go to Unplugged Performance first because part of being a badass car is looking badass and the Tesla is pretty and fast but it doesn't look badass. I'm really not into stealth. (and there is still performance headroom in a Tesla).

https://unpluggedperformance.com/

 

The Demon is head and shoulders faster than the Hellcat and I didn't say 0-60, I said 1/4 mile.......and there is no Tesla doing 9.65's at 140+

Dave

 

Let's see how well either the Tesla or Hellcat/Demon do at the 24hrs of LeMans.

 

My ideal world has corners. My actual world has them too, but not as many nice ones :-(

Either way, as impressed as am with all this 0-60 and 1/4 mile prowess (faster than my motorcycle?!?!? Woof!), it just doesn't make a difference to me in what I want to drive.

 

I agree 100%.......but the discussion was on how impressive the Tesla accelerated in a straight line. I don't care much for the Hellcat (I'm a Mopar guy and seriously considered buying one but chose the F type for all the reasons you'd imagine) but love it or hate it the Demon has set a new standard for acceleration for a production vehicle. I still wouldn't trade my F type for one but it IS incredibly fast. My buddies dedicated drag car (street legal but barely) has an all aluminum full race BBC pushing 804 hp; and the Demon runs almost identical times (9.6's at 140+)....incredible.





Dave

 

If all we really wanted out of a car is a quick 1/4 or 0-60, were all driving the wrong cars anyway. I love my car, but it's not the best at those. It's also not going to beat a Porsche around the track. We own F-Types because they have "It".

That said, Tessa's are as popular as Hondas out here. And I'm being literal. I see more of them in lots than other cars. As super cool as the tech is, they are just transportation for *me* now. Don't tell that to the peacocks that get out of them tho.. lol...

I don't know any "car guys" that have one. Maybe early on, when they were a cool new gadget, but those days are gone. It's a status symbol that is going stale with the mass production.

I think that's what worries me more about their future than anything. The big boys are not far behind and are 1/2 the price. Once electric are true commodities, it's over for the standard Tessla. But.. that's why Elon is branching off in so many cool places. He knows that.

The only thing I hate about electric cars is them sneaking around parking lots. It's eerie how they just show up behind/next to you when you are walking down a row of cars. The horn should make engine noises or something.. lol..

 

Well if you've never been in a bullet train that is a real treat, better is the Mag Lev train in China. I took half a day and a fist full of tickets and just rode it back and forth to the airport. It was still doing something around 250+ MPH back then and I've got to tell you, that kind of speed at ground level is a unique rush (and a ton safer than trying that in a car). On the Demon yes it is a production car, but you'd never drive it in the form it is in for those times. And realize you'd only do it once on the track because it is a 9 second car and most tracks require roll cages if you have a 9 second car, so you'd get one run, then you'd be asked to leave. But if you can't get that kind of performance on the street, what's the point? Half the fun with a quarter miler is building the thing not seeing some rich guy buy in. I used to bracket race when I was younger and it was fun but much of that fun was chatting about what you'd done to the car and working on weekends to get it done. I should add that the Tesla is throttled back, if you pull the fuse on the traction control (turning it off on the dash really doesn't turn it off) you'll likely kill yourself. It can't put the power down it has either and makes up for it with really good traction control. If you put drag radials on all 4 tires and stripped it down like the Demon is in race form and removed the software limiters you'd likely set track records, granted you'd also likely cook the batteries but realize no one, at least that I can find, has tried doing to a Tesla what Dodge did to create the Demon. Drag races are all about putting power down and when it comes to putting power down there is a reason trains are diesel electric and not running honking big V8 engines. But my longest point is that if Jaguar built our cars like Tesla builds theirs we'd all likely be a ton happier. By the way, Lincoln just adapted Tesla's service at home model (nice to know the folks at Ford finally listened). So I have no desire to have a Tesla S, and certainly not an X, either but there are entire weeks where I wish my F could be upgraded, was serviced, and had a media system like the Tesla does.

 

My only point is that the fastest production car is gasoline powered, not electric. My understanding is that the Demon comes with drag radials installed and the times are all as delivered..... they are way ahead of anything else out there, street or track.

I don't want to own either car, just pointing it out.

Tesla P100D = 0 - 60 in 2.4 sec, 1/4 mile, 10.72 @ 120.27 mph

Demon = 0 - 60 in 2.3 sec, 1/4 mile, 9.65 @ 140 mph.

....not even close.


Dave

 

If you look at the link, the fastest time on the Tesla is 2.3 sec as well. However, I agree that clearly the Dodge would have made it to the quarter sooner given the higher top speed. But it wouldn't be that hard to make the Tesla a lot faster, pull out 2/3rds of the battery, gear it up so the engine doesn't spin out, change out the tires, and remove some additional weight (it is a heavy beast). What folks don't seem to get is we are comparing a car that was specifically built to be a quarter miler against a car built to be a family sedan. The advantage a gas car has right now comes down to energy storage, batteries, while improved, suck when compared to gas. They just don't have the energy density, by weight, or the efficiency of a gas tank. The engines are a ton better in terms of power and reliability but man if we can ever fix the battery problem, we'd be flying to work rather than driving and that my friend would be very cool.

 

I did read the link; here's and excerpt:

Here's the part all the Teslarati aren't going to like: Your world is somewhat fake. That claim by Motor Trend of a Tesla Model S P100D doing the 0-60 mph run in 2.28 seconds? It included rollout. The run without rollout? A slower-than-Demon 2.53 seconds.

It actually looks like the Tesla is 0.1 - 0.2 seconds slower 0-60......but it's the 1/4 mile time and trap speeds that are widely disparate.


Dave

 

1) Sure, you can modify anything to make it faster; guys have been doing it since the first car was made......but stock to stock is what I'm talking about here.

2) regardless of the design intent, both cars are factory built production cars. It wasn't me that started touting how the Tesla is the fastest thing ever. Impressive? yes. Fastest ever? no.


Dave

 

The demon isn't a purpose built drag car. It's a hellcat that an OEM modded the hell out of to go fast in a straight line. If you pay the extra two bucks to get the seats, it's no different inside than a hellcat from a comfort standpoint. And it's not like the thing handles terrible either. Sure it's a boat and the suspension isn't set up ideally, but it's still got wide, sticky tires at all four corners and a full interior for comfort.

 

So, to be clear, I don't recall ever saying the S was the fastest thing ever though there still is nothing that'll touch it to 30, and nothing short of an amusement park ride provides anything close to the feeling it has off the line. But recall my original piece is on why I bought a Jaguar instead and I don't own one so I'm hardly an out of control Tesla fan. I just think Jaguar and others could use their modular model, and service and sales model to improve our experience. We'll see how the Formula E cars do on record setting times for electrics, though, their unique records are likely to be on battery swaps. I have yet to see a good electric road racing solution. The Demon is kind of the Dodge version of the Project 7, something to drool over but not something that would be practical to own. But I wouldn't pass on riding in either. I am tempted by the Jeep Hellcat car that is supposedly coming but I'll likely get the iPace instead if it ever shows up. Since it appears none of us own either of the cars we are talking about and neither do we plan to arguing about which is best has become a bit pointless. I just wanted to make sure folks who haven't had a Tesla (I've had access to one for 3 years in my car club) understand why it is different and arguably better than anything they've ever owned and why Tesla owners love them. But I still wouldn't trade my F for one and it wouldn't even be close.

 

Bringing Teslas into our world will result in fights :-)

Let's make e clear division here. Electric powered transportation machines are other species. Let's not mix those things with classical cars. Combustion engine cars are breathing, shouting, screaming, living under the hood as well as make us happier human beings with their complexity, legacy, evolution.

Who cares if an electrical powered machine goes faster or makes speed records. They are not cars. Whatever they are

 

Completely agree in this case .... Regardless of one quarter mile time; after a few runs the tesla loses power, at least according to a friend that has one.
Lawrence

 

While Teslas are not for me, I admire Elon Musk's efforts and wholeheartedly believe he has created the only "real" electric cars. I say this because all of the other fully electric cars have ranges of 50-70 miles afterwhich they have to be charged for 12 hours. They are really glorified golf carts. You couldn't take a family on a vacation in any electric car but a Tesla which has a decent range. But what I really admire is that Tesla created and fulfilled their own infrastructure with charging stations and supercharging stations throughout the regions where their sales are strong. I was at a popular restaurant that is exactly half way between Los Angeles and the Bay Area, Harris Ranch, and there are no less than 13 fast charging stations in there parking lot that will "refuel" your Tesla to nearly a full charge in the time it takes you to eat lunch. This is a great acheivement. However, Bob Lutz might be right about Tesla's future. The company is hemorrhaging money getting to this point and is heavily subsidized by companies like Toyota. I'm not sure Tesla will remain an independent automaker but could see it as a partnership with Toyota or a wholly owned division.

 

The purchase of Solar City speaks to the financial strangeness of Tesla, financially it really doesn't look that sound but it has a valuation that exceeds both Ford and GM (or it did last I checked). That is an indicator of massive unmet market potential. Yep, you can drive up and down California and almost always find a Supercharger and, except for the outlet mall in Gilroy, almost always have other Tesla folks to chat with when you do. Charging is a far more social event than filling up with gas, which is good because it takes longer too. As far as other electrics, the Bolt isn't bad but I think GM missed the point of exclusivity which is a large part of Tesla's sales success.

Now as far as Tesla's not being a car (from a post up a bit) that's just silly. At the beginning of the automotive revolution in the 1900s there were three competing car technologies. Steam and Electricity lost but they were there at the start. Steam actually hung in there pretty well largely because it was really simple but long warm up times and the tendency for the burner to blow out (and can you imagine a freeway collision with a exploding boiler) made it drop out. Interestingly electricity actually had a number of critical advantages back then not the least of which was it was far quieter and didn't spook the horses it had to be next to. Gas cars were pretty dangerous to nearby horse riders. But batteries were their weakness and sadly we went the better part of a century largely ignoring battery technology which and are now furiously trying to make up for that. We've been one major battery breakthrough away from wiping out internal combustion engines for an impressively long time.

As far as the battery losing power, also from a post above, it gets hot and lithium ion doesn't like excessive heat or cold. Its why some of the coming electrics are going back to radiators and liquid cooling, to keep the battery temp down. I believe the iPace will be one of the first examples of this.

 

I learned long ago not to argue with religious beliefs.

 

There is no doubt, the Tesla is an amazing piece of engineering. That being said I would likely not own one. When I drive 375 miles I dont need to stop for an hour long lunch, to recharge. A 5 minute fill up at the local truck stop is fine for me. On a recent trip up to SF, there were three Tesla's waiting for the charger - thats about a 2 hour wait, and lengthens your trip accordingly. The 0-60 times are super impressive, and that has definite appeal. However, for me, I'll take the sound of an intake, engine and an exhaust anytime. In my life I drive curves all the time, so I would rather have a better handling and all round performer, rather than a straight line monster. Oh and also lets see how many Tesla's actually end up being classics or collectors?

Just my two cents.....