Hi all,

Just bought a gorgeous IRR 2016 V6S. Coming from a BMW 135i, which I still have, the quality and refinement of the Jag is a breath of fresh air. I'm hopeful that I won't have to sink $1000s upon $1000s upon $1000s upon $1000s upon $1000s upon $1000s upon $1000s into it over and over and over and over again. I love this F-Type and especially the noises.

One thing I noticed immediately, that I don't enjoy, is the lengthy pedal travel and laggy throttle control. Has anyone installed a simple throttle curve remapping device at the pedal? IMO this would be a night an day difference for this particular car and would probably shave 0.2s to 0.3s off 0-60. If so, recommendations?

I know a lot of people think these don't do anything, but in fact they do a lot. Obviously, at-the-pedal amplifiers don't increase engine horsepower, but they do allow the command of WOT near-instantly, instead after waiting a few seconds for the pedal output voltage to build. There are a lot of good YouTube videos that demonstrate and plot the delayed build curves of today's laggy drive-by-wire pedals.

 

https://www.pedalcommander.com/produ...v=7516fd43adaa

 

They have no impact on your 0-60 !

 

 

No matter how fast you floor the pedal, the voltage wont reach WOT for 2-3 seconds. Thats why there are tens of zillions of these things sold.

 

Thank, I'm familiar with most of the options, I was just wondering if anyone had experiences to share with this car.

 

No its instant, stop spouting BS!
They are generally sold to people who believe in snake oil.

The only thing they do is adjust the voltage to bring the throttle curve earlier so 60% pedal now equals 100% and on some cars with very long pedal travel with no sport function or even if they have one and its still not responsive enough then these items are a benefit.

I am one of those drivers who likes a linear pedal, I drive my SVR in dynamic but the engine is left in normal mode as I prefer linear throttle response but I do a lot of track driving where smooth and linear inputs are a must.

They have no impact on 0-60, unless you have some physical issue with your foot and mashing the pedal.

I shall repeat once again they do nothing for 0-60 or quarter mile running.

When you go 100% pedal with or without a pedal boost the car registers it absolutely immediately and gives you full power if torque tables permit which are something a pedal booster has no control over.

 

You are using Dynamic mode, right? Makes a big difference with throttle response.

 

Yes, of course. But it is the embedded circuitry in the DBW pedal itself that delays voltage output to smooth its voltage curve to the ECU. There's a good reason why every good aftermarket ECU tune includes a DBW pedal voltage remap. It makes a big difference in immediate power availability and especially 0-60 time if you can shave 2-3 secs off the initial WOT command to the ECU. Pedal mashing speed is irrelevant--that's the problem.

Anecdotally: since around 5K miles my 135i has had a JB4 ISO (running 18 psi; stock boost is 8.5 psi), a Mishimoto all-aluminum FMIC (BMW's stock FMIC is pressed tin and plastic and leaks like a sieve above 8lbs of boost), full meth injection through a double bung bolt-on metal charge pipe (BMW's ultra cheap plastic charge pipe blows apart @ 11psi) and a 4" catless downpipe--since removed to put the decibel level back below UFB. All told, good for around 420hp/420tq. But IMO, the most noticeable impact for the money was the plug-play pedal pedal remap. Not to mention it's a reasonably inexpensive 2 minute install.

The remap instantly added a lot more wheel spin off the line in DTC mode (BMW's traction control almost-off mode). 285 P-Zeros on the rears resulted in the right balance between smoke and bite for an OK launch. Optimizing wheel spin is the convertible 135i's achilles heal at a whopping 3900 pounds. The function of the pedal remap was recently absorbed into the JB4's in-dash menu controls, it uses the stock gauge cluster to let you change and monitor real time boost psi and other parameters on the fly. It also has a tuner detection code erasing software dismount for dealer visits. Wish we had something like the JB4 for the F-Type.

Sadly, pedal remap hardware controllers by themselves run a silly $280-$330, for any car. A programmable JB4 ISO piggyback ECU with an integrated meth controller (and now a pedal map function) was only $600 when I bought it and has a current development base of around 50,000 end-users. I understand there are a few early ECU tunes that include a pedal remap feature plus bring the hp up some in the high RPM range, but I'd prefer something more mature and immediate for the Jag that is not going to be a warranty issue.

 

[QUOTE=SGREENLYN;1902821

Just bought a gorgeous IRR 2016 V6S. I'm hopeful that I won't have to sink $1000s upon $1000s upon $1000s upon $1000s upon $1000s upon $1000s upon $1000s into it over and over and over and over again.

Congratulations and welcome! 16's in USA have 5 year warranty, if CPO'ed then longer. So far, most have reported reasonable reliability, but 5th year is just coming up, so nothing long term.

If you want to spend $1,000s the good way then there are a number of mods that will get you started. Tune and pulley will get you moving.

 

I don't mind the $2K, but I'm hesitant to put a detectable pulley on a car with solid warranty left. Also, from poking around a little, it doesn't seem like the ECU flashes have a very large user base nor any sort of stealth mode once the pulley is in place. Plus it seems the hp curve is nearly superimposed until 5K RPM, which is par for the course given a 3.0L base, I suppose. As you rightly point out, I bought a 2016 with 15K miles largely for the 2+ year/45K warranty. It was registered in June 2015. All the 2015s were about out. So... maybe later. My BMW was such a ridiculous maintenance nightmare both in and out of warranty, call me gun shy.

I do love the Jag as a gorgeous, well balanced package.

 

As pointed out in the post above mine, the F-Types with Dynamic already have this stock so if someone wants that type of capability, they would simply buy a car which is already equipped so no "real" market for it in this world (e.g. you are the first person to ask in 4 years I think). Since no market, no product and no reason to develop such a product for a ghost market. Of course, this is all just my opinion.

In stark contrast there appears to be a STRONG demand for after-market engine tuning. This is probably due to Jaguar themselves offering different tunes for different price points. When JLR wants an extra $8K for a 400 Sport and other than a few cosmetic differences, the engine is EXACTLY the SAME but with a software tune (& perhaps a pulley) makes others think that a tune from 340 to 380 or 400 is not a big deal IF... they can get it for a reasonable price which CAN be done with VAP and a few other tuners. Same thing on the v8s as those can be tuned to 650HP relatively easily and with very little mechanical risk other than the engine warranty considerations.

 

There are lots of options for all cars, because manufacturers can't mess with their suppliers' embedded software without liability. I think thats why all cars suffer from this major performance defect off the showroom floor.

I only drive in dynamic mode, its hard to explain exactly how laggy the pedal feels compared to my other cars in this hp genre. Maybe twice as laggy is a ballpark characterization. For one thing, the Jag has a kickdown plate--just to start the timer to WOT.

Yep, most ECU or piggyback tunes now include this feature, including the emerging Jag tunes--which also demonstrates the need. But I dont see making a hardware mod til the warranty is out. Especially one that needs an aftermarket flash to run right.

 

Calling the pedal response "laggy" in an F-Type would make you a first, and I've been on this forum since 2014. The biggest challenge for every F-Type owner is learning how to appropriately feather the throttle to keep the rear tires stuck to the pavement.

If your throttle is laggy, you might consider taking your car to the dealer and ask them to check and then reflash the ECM. It is possible your computer has kicked into one of the systems many safe modes.

Thereafter, drive the **** out of the car for the next few hundred miles... The previous owner may have driven the car like a nanny, thus the learning mode may have adapted to that style of driving.

 

Also, given your experience at modding the BMW and the money you sank into that effort, I'm a bit confused why you would be concerned about modding the Jag.

Unless you blow your engine, no dealer is going to care that you have an aftermarket pulley, and most techs likely wont even notice unless you give them reason to go looking for a problem.

Velocity AP offers a very effective tune for each F-Type platform which they have intentionally skewed to the safe side. There are other tunes that may net another 10% boost in performance over what VAP will yield, but most of those tunes have proven to be at greater risk for engine problems, repetitive CEL alerts and ECU malfunctions.

 

A few things:

- You don't note whether it's auto or manual. If auto, it has probably, as noted above, learned to drive like a grandma.
- The pedal "amplifiers" just change the mapping of pedal position, but if there were "lag" built into the pedal, the doodad would get the delayed response. If there were lag upstream of the pedal, the doodad would feed a lagged system.

My guess is that that if you get it reset (not sure if battery reset - disconnect battery for 15 seconds will reset the learned driving habits) and then drive it like you think it should be driven, it will come into line.

Oh, if no one else has mentioned it, consider the VAP tune without any hardware changes. The current crop of tunes they have work fine without a pulley, but are designed to work with one too. I find the throttle a bit touchy at times, at least in specific conditions.

 

I get the feeling from your statements that I won't be able to convince you these pedal remapping tools are a waste of money. Instead i'll offer some thought on the software in vehicles themselves...

Manufacturers can basically get away with whatever they want when it comes to suppliers software... They right the functional requirements for the software and the module and send that out for quoting when sourcing a supplier. If the supplier doesn't want to give them full control, then they don't get the business. The manufacturers desire to have control over the software varies from system to system. For some modules, the OEM demands full control over every detail, and for others they let the supplier do everything including tuning the module/developing the software. Liability is share by both to varying degrees. This is most recently evident from the VW emissions scandal that Bosch was involved in.


When it comes to the software itself, the possibilities are endless. There are certain situations where the ECM will limit how quickly or to what level the throttle comes on in effort to smooth out the feel of acceleration or protect the driveline components. This is done a lot in off-roading modes or in commuter vehicles that need to be more sensitive or smooth. However this is done specifically in the ECM and cannot be modified by plugging in a tuner at the pedal. The pedal is a 0-5V ranged switch that simply provides a signal to the ECM and does nothing else. These pedal mapping tuners just modify the voltage of the signal vs. pedal travel and nothing else. As for lag, the signal the pedal sends is instant on the CAN bus; only the ECM can impose the lag. If you're confident in this 2-3 second to WOT lag, I encourage you to log throttle position vs. pedal position when doing a WOT pull; the results may surprise you.

 

This man speaks the truth.
As I already said it will have no impact on your 0-60.

 

Sorry, but I just can't pass up an opportunity to stick it to my ex. Maybe it's a case of turbo charged vs supercharged, but the 2015 Ghibli that I drove for nearly three years and traded for the 2018 Fuji Couple redefined laggy in my opinion. Driving the Mas in my daily environment it was nearly impossible to avail oneself of any latent power. The F-Type on the other hand has already impressed me with its responsiveness--even though I am keeping it under 3K RPMs until I accumulate the 2K mile break-in. The XF I traded for the Ghibli was also much more responsive and generally more refined.
To be fair it is somewhat apples and oranges comparing the Mas to the X152, and to add to the imbalance the Ghibli is a heavy beast, nearly a half ton more than the Jag. I will say that the extra pounds made the Ghibli as stable as a rock in heavy crosswinds.

 

Ah, no they don't and the F-Type is especially immune to this. Although many of us have already pointed out the flaws in your presumption, you appear to have an ANSWER and are seeking out a "problem" that honestly just doesn't exists here in the F-Type world. If the only thing you give a man is a hammer, he will treat everything else as if it were a nail. There are no nails embedded within the F-Type so there is also no need for such a fabricated... hammer

PS - Voltage actuators are really a very, very, very old design that has been outdated for years. Surprised you would have used one on any BMW later than 1986 honestly