Sorry to butt in, but Matt gives the details in this post: https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/f...5/#post1607584

 

Thanks - here is the post:

Over the weekend at the track, I did both hand checks and TPMS. It appeared that my handheld needle gauge was showing 2lbs less than the computer on all tires. I usually take 2 readings per tire with the hand gauge but even still, there is room for error using the old fashion gauge.

FYI - after several sessions adjusting, I concluded that the best inflation was cold 30 front / 32 rear. This resulted in pressures of 38 all around hot.

I did not receive any low warnings until I dropped below 30 psi. I had read somewhere that there was a street and track setting. I have not found such a setting

I'm not sure if this is the "best" pressure for the ContiForce Contact tires or not. But, it did feel good.

 

I just noticed I incorrectly stated the tire sizes. My fronts are OEM size 255/35.

 

Dear me...memories of Miss Gardiner in grade 4..." Alan it isn't enough to just read the book, you must comprehend and remember as well"

So..30F. 32R

Gracias

 

great info on the experience and tracking the R vs the GT4. my previous car was a cayman as well (no GT4 though...unfortunately).

i have the RWD R and it is a hoot, but requires very careful throttle (fun, but mentally tiring). it is, all around, the most fun car i have ever had (4 porsches). I would definitely say the track is not it's strength, but still super fun. the cayman is just about perfect in that category...

Matttheboatman: where did you get your meatball (#) in the pictures? send info/link please...i have numbers for the track, but wanted a meatball. is it 'reusable'? (static cling)

 

Re; Number sign - I just use my local sign guy. I measure it and tell him what I want. I sent him picture of car and he shows what it might look like and gives me a couple of choices with different fonts. I prefered the #3, but it was already registered for the weekend's event. They are 1 use. The magnetic will not stick as the doors are aluminum and I don't trust the static cling at top speeds. I share this car with my wife so I plan to carefully peel them off and stick them on the wall in the garage

Send me a PM if you want his number and I'm sure he can cut and mail them to you.

 

I would assume with 550hp, and being a very smart car, the Jaguar F-Type R should be able to lap quicker than I recently experienced. So, what changes as a driver could I employ to get quicker? So I asked google (google knows all!!!)

I stumbled upon an interesting video produced way back in the early '80s about the "Unfair Advantage" that AWD brought to the Audi Quattro race team. Famed driver Hans Stuck explained that he was slower than his teammates who were taking full advantage of the AWD system. He says he learned to use the technique of "left foot braking" to achieve much faster lap times. Hmmm that makes sense, perhaps I will try it. Now something to do with both feet!

The video talks about how Porsche's Dr. Ferdinand Piech was responsible for bringing AWD to the Audi car and adapting the old technology for a modern street & race car. And today, Jag also has adopted this "old" technology.

Here is the video - Hans Stuck interview about minute 10:45.

 

I think with Stuck much was to avoid turbo lag....our supercharger avoids much of that.
Do recall though that the great Saab rally drivers were left for brakers as well...but for them torque was the missing link, not turbo lag.
Definitely it will be fun to muck about and discover new skills.

 

Took the Jag R AWD out to the most beautiful track in the world this weekend - Barber Motorsports Park. This was my first visit to the track - Wow, I am impressed. It is better manicured, greener, and more flowers than most 5-star golf courses. The place is amazing. The week before it hosted the Honda Indy races. I was the ONLY Jag at the event - it was a HPDE event hosted by the super nice and very professional Porsche Club of Alabama.

The harder I run the Jag, the more I'm impressed. The All Wheel Drive is a super-nanny on steroids. It is by far the smartest car I've ever driven. Kudos to those engineers who designed the AWD system. It does it's job to keep the car going straight in just about every circumstance. It is so smart, that my driving coach started getting concerned that I might develop bad habits that I don't even know I have since the car is so planted and safe, and makes its minute adjustments on the fly that I can hardly notice.

It gets an A+ for dependability at the limit. No heat problems, no transmission problems, and only the slightest brake fade when I start pushing hard.

True, the Jag has the power. But the other cars out there are so much lighter they should be running circles around the Jag. Jag 4,000# with driver vs. 3,200#s for the Caymans.

I was able to keep up with most of the Porsches. As compared to the GT4, the Jag is able to turn in better and close on the straights. The Porsche Cayman is more capable at mid-turn and it the esses. One of my friends who is a Pro Driver with plenty track experience was running in the mid to high 1:40s. I was just a couple of seconds behind in the Jag. The GT4 is set up with Cup2 tires. I ran lesser grip Continental Conti-Force tires. I'm getting faster!

 

As it turned out, Barber was not a track to take lightly and to throw in new techniques into the mix. I mostly right foot braked while I was learning the circuit. I did play with left foot braking on my final session in turns 5/6. Definitely faster - a lot faster, but it is also a bit tricky. The Power of the Jag comes in quickly requiring a super-smooth release of the left foot. I need more practice and will report back with more info.

 

What tires were you running on out there?

 

This is a great thread! Subscribed!

I am going to our little track this weekend for an HPDE and am really excited to feel how this car handles. Last track day was in the Porsche 911 S RWD, so I expect this to be completely different in just about all aspects!

In your first post, you said the brakes were dancing under hard braking, but at Barber, you liked them. Was the difference because of a change in technique, or did you just learn to adapt to them? Curious if there is any tricks I should try to increase stability.

 

Great question re: Brakes...

Barber's top speed was far less than NOLA so it may not be an accurate comparison (110 ish at Barber vs 140+ at NOLA). The brakes did act fairly well at Barbers.

I did several things before track day. 1st I had the car tech'ed which discovered a loose nut at one of the control arms on left rear. Tightened it. Also, I had the bleed the brakes as safe precaution. Both these items could have resolved my brake issue, but the slower top speeds likely helped most.

No tricks - just the usual hands and eyes straight ahead under heavy braking.

I am assuming you are AWD and can promise you will love it. Make sure you are not overfilled on the oil, double check your lugs for proper torque, and start pretty low on air pressure as they will heat up quick - I suggest 27/28 cold - should end you up about 36 pounds hot.

My instructor gave me some sage advice about the Jag compared to the Porsche - "just because the car will let you do some things, don't rely on them" -
* don't lift at the top of the hill,
* don't turn in too aggressively, and
* do get on the throttle early just feather in the power smoothly.

Perhaps I am over safe. But, if you do start pressing hard at the track please let us know if you were able to get the back end to wiggle past 20%, because I have not seen it - she is super composed, and ready to run. You are going to be grinning ear to ear. And, trust me - you will have the best sounding car out there.

 

1:52 best, 1:54 average.

EDIT: Oops - i gave you times. The Tires were 20" Continental Conti-Force Contact. They are good. But, i'm going to try a set of Bridgestone RE-71Rs next - need to drop down to 245/35 on the fronts - but the physical dimensions are remarkably similar to OEM's 255/35 Pirelli's

 

Great share, thanks.

You can get refurbished OEM wheels from midwestwheelandtire on ebay. You can get a 18 wheel and certainly increase your tire selection.

 

As this is the Track Day thread, thought I would pass-on my experiences over the weekend. I have a 2016 F-Type R AWD Convertible for reference.

We have a small local track an hour out of the city which is not much to look at, but still allows for some learning and fun! The event I attended was an HPDE, so there was no timing on the laps, and in most cases plenty of traffic to run into.

The F-Type is a beast of a car. Heavy with lots of power, and plenty of grip due to the AWD system, and so is very close to other vehicles I have tracked in the past (mostly of the Subaru STI and Evo X variety). Having never tracked a car with this kind of power before, it was a very engaging experience, and one that keeps you on your toes.

I think everything Matt said in his posts is spot-on, but I think there is a few key things that people need to know to get the most out of the experience.

1) It is heavy, and any mistakes you make are going to be amplified due to that. If you take the wrong line, or miss that apex, it takes a lot of energy to bring the car back in shape, so you will lose plenty of time in that respect. I would suspect that this is a BIG reason that Matt saw such a time discrepency between the Cayman and the F Type. The Cayman will let you make corrections fairly forgivingly and get yourself back in line without a big fuss, but the big fat F-Type will definitely eat at your time significantly should you need to shift your strategy.

2) AWD is your best friend. I have to hand it to Jaguar, the AWD system is an absolute delight! I have tracked systems from most manufacturers, but I have not felt a system that delivers power around the car this smoothly. Sure the computers in the Evo X and GTR or MacLaren are phenomenal, but they don't necessarily feel smooth and completely integrated. They are more like an aid that gets you out of trouble by making big changes and are truly able to do some magical things, but it always feels artificial in some way. The Jaguar's system seemed to be reading my mind and was always there to lend a gentle helping hand that took something already great and made it amazing.

Seriously, couldn't be more impressed.

That being said, the Jaguar needs to adapt the same strategy that most AWD cars do, and go slow in, and fast out. If you do the reverse, the weight will punish your times, and the AWD isn't able to magically erase momentum that the heavy Jag will have, so this as a strategy is always going to net a better return than trying to nail it at the max speed. That being said, the Jag lets you get on the power VERY early. You can pick that speed up in a hurry and usually exit turns with a high velocity.

3) Brakes need work. I find them quite good for the city driving and most things. Never faded, never really got unsettled, but never really had the bite that I was expecting and hoping they would have. I am not sure if the brake lines are braided (I am thinking not) but I believe this would be a very positive upgrade, also pads with more bite will definitely enhance the stopping power and feel of the car. I didn't experience brake fade much throughout the two day event, but they definitely started losing their grip once heat started to build up. I am not really sure what pads are on there from the factory, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were some relatively inexpensive options out there from Pagid or Hawk. If anyone has some info to share, that would be terrific!

4) Transmission is automatic, and the car did quite well at keeping it in the best gear under most circumstances. I wouldn't call it aggressive, and in long sweepers I would feel it upshift mid-turn, which is definitely not advisable. I think that it probably cost me 1-2 seconds (it is a 1:10 average lap) on a lap over manually shifting with paddles, so those that feel confident in the other aspects of the car will DEFINITELY notice an improvement in many areas doing it themselves.

5) Engine was strong all day long, no noticeable heat soak (engine cover was removed), and strong output all across the torque band. Kept up with a rookie in a C7 Z06, and a 2014 Viper GTS for the most part. You could tune and add more power pretty easily, but I think unless you have spent a lot of time mastering the other facets of the car, adding power will just get you into more trouble.

6) Suspension was solid all day. I was running in Dynamic with everything at max EXCEPT shocks. At this track, softer is faster, so it was kept on soft the whole day. The track had some pretty major bumps both on the straight and in mid-corner, but the weight of the car and compliance of the suspension was perfect in soaking up those bumps without major upset in the car's balance. I would say on a faster smooth track that the car would need the shocks on Dynamic, and possible could use some tuning with rollbars or springs to match a specific track, but for what I was doing, I felt that this was not holding me back one bit.

I found the car to have mild understeer (usually engineered for safety), and I did nothing to modify the alignment to try to circumvent this. It still turned in very predictably, and at 8 or 9/10 but at 10/10, may lead to a push as it is easy to overwhelm the fronts with the weight of that engine over it. I think this could be dialed out with some tire pressure changes, but I also think that fixing this could lead to other issues (everything is a trade-off, and in this case tire wear should be considered).
I was expecting to be wrestling with oversteer, as most people talk about how wild the back end on the F-Type is however the AWD version is not that car. It gives a bit of a kick out in the best possible places in just the right way to keep the nose where it should be (I think the vectoring system was doing this for me). Overall, not a car you have to reign in all the time as long as you are feathering in the throttle. Goose it and all hell will break loose, but that is not what track racing is about!

7) Tires were stock P Zeros and did their job all day long. Temperatures were mild, and the cold wind really kept the tire temps down most of the 2 day event leading to less than normal wear, and no greasy feeling. For the last part of the second day, temps shot up and then the tires started to give up a bit with what was being asked of the car. The Zeros seemed to grease up and lost grip due to the weight of the car noticeably, and I did blow a braking zone pretty bad that I had hit fine 30 times before. I will likely be changing to a different tire on my next set, and I think that adding 10mm of width at the front would probably do good things to this car in most conditions.

I can't think of anything else to add, but if anyone has any questions or comments, please feel free to chime in.

Cheers,
Breaker841

**EDIT** People were talking about the sound of the car all weekend, and the marshals loved it everytime it went by. People LOVE this car!

 

Great summary. Did you run in TrakDSC mode?

 

I ran the first day with DSC off, and second day with it on. No appreciable difference was noticed, however I would say put it on just to have it in case something goes wrong. If you are doing a good job keeping in the limits, it will NOT hold you back. Very impressed with this!

 

[QUOTE=Breaker841;1678558]


"It gives a bit of a kick out in the best possible places in just the right way"

Very well put Breaker841! I enjoyed reading your entire synopsis. I had not tried running it with the suspension in the softer setting - will experiment on next trip.

 

It will depend on the track and conditions, but definitely worth a try!