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Volvo in recent days announced they have abandoned their plan to be full EV by 2030. They said in their release that the market won’t allow for it.
I personally think Jaguar will be making some announcement of their own.
The market is buying hybrids. Why they don’t do that and a bit of EV is beyond me.,.And ideally leave some ICE on the table too, as that is market share they will no longer have access to at all…Which is lunacy…
I really do believe alongside all of this speculation of ours that there must be some adults in the room over there at Jaguar. There must be. Right? Lol
Jaguar claimed that the only ICE vehicle that was profitable in their lineup was the F-Pace. It was also their best seller and it's why it continues to be built (at least through 12/31/24).
At this point, the brand cache is worth more than the brand itself. It's been said before but I could absolutely see Tata sell off Jaguar to a Chinese company to become a luxury EV brand and keep just Land Rover for themselves (which was the profitable half of the equation). The brand name still means luxury and China's EV market is proliferating in the lower end but not a lot of luxury players--yet.
Jaguar claimed that the only ICE vehicle that was profitable in their lineup was the F-Pace. It was also their best seller and it's why it continues to be built (at least through 12/31/24).
At this point, the brand cache is worth more than the brand itself. It's been said before but I could absolutely see Tata sell off Jaguar to a Chinese company to become a luxury EV brand and keep just Land Rover for themselves (which was the profitable half of the equation). The brand name still means luxury and China's EV market is proliferating in the lower end but not a lot of luxury players--yet.
Yup, this seems to be a dominant theory that keeps surfacing. Here’s to hoping this does not happen. Talk about the end of an era of it were to go down. I guess money talks, so it’s certainly conceivable. Darnit it would be disappointing if that played out.
Well, I guess really it’s already the end of just based on current plans. Them falling into the hands of the Chinese would just be the cherry on top.
“It became necessary to destroy the towncompany to save it.”
My prediction: Tata will continue to demand subsidies from the British government to keep jobs and the hallmark in the UK.
Finally, the government, after billions invested, will declare a "lost cause" assuming the end of the company.
Then, Jaguar will rise like the phoenix, using the machinery and technology purchased at fire sale prices, PROUDLY producing IC gasoline and diesel vehicles in India and China.
It's OK. The only constant in life is change.
Honestly, if it means Jag ICE remains (or returns), id honestly be OK with that ONLY of the only other option is all crazy expensive EVs or nothing at all.
Volvo in recent days announced they have abandoned their plan to be full EV by 2030. They said in their release that the market won’t allow for it.
I personally think Jaguar will be making some announcement of their own.
The market is buying hybrids. Why they don’t do that and a bit of EV is beyond me.,.And ideally leave some ICE on the table too, as that is market share they will no longer have access to at all…Which is lunacy…
Because of egotistical idealism. I feel pretty sure thwir plan won't work at all but unsure what the fallout and correction will be.
EVs aren't suitable for most people's use cases - you needs lots of money to buy them, and have access to off-road parking to charge them, and don't do frequent long journeys (or fun rides!). Not to mention the potential fire risks of lithium batteries. But politicians don't look at things objectively.
I know lots of folk (not on here, just in general) seem to frown upon plug-in hybrids, but father bought a Toyota RAV4 PHEV some 3 years ago and it has been perfect for his requirements. So far, this year, he's run around 5000 miles and put in a total of 80L of fuel and still got 350 miles of petrol range left in the current fill. 99% of his journeys are short, local trips, so the 57-mile battery range (yes, it's currently doing that, but drops to high 30s / low 40s at best in Winter) is ideal, but he is also not then constrained by range anxiety as the petrol takes over for the longer drives. And if he runs out of petrol, he can stop at any one of thousands of petrol stations and be on his way in a couple of minutes max. Just for a laugh, a couple of years ago, we looked at recharging the battery at a motorway service stop. The electric charging point needed an app to use, but neither of us had a mobile phone signal there. Oh and it was 3x the cost of our normal daytime electric back home.
We're also lucky that we have a driveway, so the car is charged overnight when it runs out.
Electric is a solution for some people, but it is far from being the only solution.
I know lots of folk (not on here, just in general) seem to frown upon plug-in hybrids, but father bought a Toyota RAV4 PHEV some 3 years ago and it has been perfect for his requirements. So far, this year, he's run around 5000 miles and put in a total of 80L of fuel and still got 350 miles of petrol range left in the current fill. 99% of his journeys are short, local trips, so the 57-mile battery range (yes, it's currently doing that, but drops to high 30s / low 40s at best in Winter) is ideal, but he is also not then constrained by range anxiety as the petrol takes over for the longer drives. And if he runs out of petrol, he can stop at any one of thousands of petrol stations and be on his way in a couple of minutes max. Just for a laugh, a couple of years ago, we looked at recharging the battery at a motorway service stop. The electric charging point needed an app to use, but neither of us had a mobile phone signal there. Oh and it was 3x the cost of our normal daytime electric back home.
We're also lucky that we have a driveway, so the car is charged overnight when it runs out.
Electric is a solution for some people, but it is far from being the only solution.
Do people really frown on plug-in hybrids? In these parts I don’t think that is the case. If anything hybrids look more attractive now because they are a good balance.
Also, isn’t it a problem for hybrids if you only always run them on electric power and never on gas? I thought I remembered reading some articles that this can cause the vehicle grief, and that it is advisable to consciously run them on gas power here and there even if you don’t require the gas…Just so it’s exercised a bit…Pretty sure I read that at one one…Also, I suppose having gas sitting around in the vehicle aging is not overly great either…
Those RAV4 plug-in hybrids are some of the best out there. I believe you’re still on a huge wait list if you want one.
Yup, a lot of reviewers blather on about "you're carrying around this heavy battery all the time". The big problem here is that they were very popular with company car buyers because they attracted a vey low tax rate, and were bought for that reason alone, never once getting charged up - many cars were getting returned at the end of their lease with the charging cable still in the original sealed bag in the boot. And yes, if you predominantly do lots of miles per day then a PHEV is a bad car to own, but for the average person they are perfect.
As for fuel, we only put low-ethanol fuel (5% max) in the RAV4, with additional stabiliser additives, to counter some of the problems of it not getting used much. That said, some fuel does get used throughout the week, as the fuel range depletes gradually over time even if we don't consciously select the petrol mode.
Regarding waiting list, father bought his in 2021. He called the local Toyota dealer, after we test drive a few similar cars, and we had to wait the ridiculous time of ..... 2 weeks!
Yup, a lot of reviewers blather on about "you're carrying around this heavy battery all the time". The big problem here is that they were very popular with company car buyers because they attracted a vey low tax rate, and were bought for that reason alone, never once getting charged up - many cars were getting returned at the end of their lease with the charging cable still in the original sealed bag in the boot. And yes, if you predominantly do lots of miles per day then a PHEV is a bad car to own, but for the average person they are perfect.
As for fuel, we only put low-ethanol fuel (5% max) in the RAV4, with additional stabiliser additives, to counter some of the problems of it not getting used much. That said, some fuel does get used throughout the week, as the fuel range depletes gradually over time even if we don't consciously select the petrol mode.
Regarding waiting list, father bought his in 2021. He called the local Toyota dealer, after we test drive a few similar cars, and we had to wait the ridiculous time of ..... 2 weeks!
Differences in locales I think. I have a friend that tried to purchase one not too long ago and availability was poor. Would have been a long wait.
At least in the North American market, I think Jag would have some customers if they had a plug-in hybrid.
As for fuel, we only put low-ethanol fuel (5% max) in the RAV4, with additional stabiliser additives, to counter some of the problems of it not getting used much. That said, some fuel does get used throughout the week, as the fuel range depletes gradually over time even if we don't consciously select the petrol mode.
Of course, frequently running the petrol engine cold is really good for longevity ....
Of course, frequently running the petrol engine cold is really good for longevity ....
no comment
Anyhoo, that will be Toyota's problem since the car will have a 10-year warranty within a couple years - it came with a 3-year warranty, but that gets extended by a year (up to 10-years maximum warranty) for every service that gets done at a Toyota dealer, so we've already extended another 3 years.
Toyota has several videos on how their hybrid/electric/fuel cell vehicles work. Good viewing, if you want to learn. The way they start/run the engines unobtrusively is great, MUCH better than our F's ECO-start/stop.
There's a piece of me that wants to like the idea of a hybrid. Versus an EV, they can eliminate the range issue, the smaller battery consumes use a fraction of the natural resources and lowers the weight, plus it can provide a boost in power to supplement a smaller engine with better gas mileage. But, it's also the worst of both worlds, since you have to build/maintain both drive systems.
There's a piece of me that wants to like the idea of a hybrid. Versus an EV, they can eliminate the range issue, the smaller battery consumes use a fraction of the natural resources and lowers the weight, plus it can provide a boost in power to supplement a smaller engine with better gas mileage. But, it's also the worst of both worlds, since you have to build/maintain both drive systems.
Allow the collective wisdom of an entire population to decide what should be. The market has always been the best judge of which way to go for all kinds of reasons that used to be considered common knowledge.
Allow the collective wisdom of an entire population to decide what should be. The market has always been the best judge of which way to go for all kinds of reasons that used to be considered common knowledge.
One would think, wouldn't they? Once, this was true for sure. Back in a time when people were more independent minded individually, at least more of a critical mass were, and wasn't so easily influenced by the "big" [whatever's], social media, BS claims from "scientists", (or half truths at best) and sought to actually learn and discover truth claims on their own, not just giving ascribing authority to wholly undeserving entities. No more, so much of everything is tribal driven now - a critical mass of people demand a thing, and there are so many followers that will justify their own lack of fortitude by pushing claims many often know are BS, but "we can't go against the crowd, now can we?". Case in point, it seems that EVs are very well understood to be, by most people, not "IT". It was (or will be) a flash in the pan, relatively speaking and those old enough to know how the BetaMax ended up will know what I am talking about. The problem is, the EV push has been fueled by government with the tailwinds being corporate lobby and interest. Yet, here we are still talking about it. The challenge is that that critical mass of folks are now more easily cognitively dissonant because, for shame, what would everyone else think if I didn't also tow the line? This has been influenced very well by aforementioned "big [whatever's]". I fully agree with the ideal of capitalism and market-driven choice and while I am being slightly hyperbolic (but really only very slightly), I don't think it is sustainable in modern first world culture. Examples exists all around. The fact that planned obsolescence exists is because the market accepted it. It isn't good for anyone but the corporations; however, it still exists and will not ever go away. Buying a new iPhone every year or even every 2 years when they can last 5-8+ years exists because the market accepted it. Walmart, Amazon, and the like have destroyed manufacturing, small business, etc. because the market accepted it - NOT because it was the right thing to do, but because it was the "cheap" thing to do. Granted, I went on a tangent there as EVs certainly aren't cheap; however, the point remains the same - free market is influenced by far too much than simple "good v. bad" any longer. Sad to say.
Allow the collective wisdom of an entire population to decide what should be.
Well, I'm STILL disappointed that I can't buy Coca-Cola that contains actual Cocaine!
Did you know that the original recipe for Coca-Cola contained cocaine?
Coca-Cola’s history has been well-documented. The drink was invented in 1885 by John Pemberton, a pharmacist from Atlanta, Georgia, who made the original formula in his backyard. Pemberton’s recipe contained cocaine in the form of an extract of the coca leaf, which inspired the “Coca” part of the beverage’s name. The “Cola” comes from the kola nut (which contains caffeine, another stimulant).
When Coca-Cola was invented, cocaine was legal and a common ingredient in medicines. People thought it was safe to use in small amounts.
<<kidding>>
Last edited by Carbuff2; Sep 11, 2024 at 12:43 PM.
One would think, wouldn't they? Once, this was true for sure. Back in a time when people were more independent minded individually, at least more of a critical mass were, and wasn't so easily influenced by the "big" [whatever's], social media, BS claims from "scientists", (or half truths at best) and sought to actually learn and discover truth claims on their own, not just giving ascribing authority to wholly undeserving entities. No more, so much of everything is tribal driven now - a critical mass of people demand a thing, and there are so many followers that will justify their own lack of fortitude by pushing claims many often know are BS, but "we can't go against the crowd, now can we?". Case in point, it seems that EVs are very well understood to be, by most people, not "IT". It was (or will be) a flash in the pan, relatively speaking and those old enough to know how the BetaMax ended up will know what I am talking about. The problem is, the EV push has been fueled by government with the tailwinds being corporate lobby and interest. Yet, here we are still talking about it. The challenge is that that critical mass of folks are now more easily cognitively dissonant because, for shame, what would everyone else think if I didn't also tow the line? This has been influenced very well by aforementioned "big [whatever's]". I fully agree with the ideal of capitalism and market-driven choice and while I am being slightly hyperbolic (but really only very slightly), I don't think it is sustainable in modern first world culture. Examples exists all around. The fact that planned obsolescence exists is because the market accepted it. It isn't good for anyone but the corporations; however, it still exists and will not ever go away. Buying a new iPhone every year or even every 2 years when they can last 5-8+ years exists because the market accepted it. Walmart, Amazon, and the like have destroyed manufacturing, small business, etc. because the market accepted it - NOT because it was the right thing to do, but because it was the "cheap" thing to do. Granted, I went on a tangent there as EVs certainly aren't cheap; however, the point remains the same - free market is influenced by far too much than simple "good v. bad" any longer. Sad to say.
The free market is only an ideal, at times operating more efficiently than at other times, but it's still [by far] the best mechanism to determine viability. The alternative, top-down management, is a disaster at every level except in parenting [and emergency military crisis] where it needs to be reinstituted [in parenting, that is].
Although it took a few years [and although it was laced with ideology], people eventually caught on to the EV scam. In the end, the market ALWAYS wins [the time necessary to achieve this outcome being proportional the levels of obfuscation and corruption present].
