We could figure something out, but that little extension off the MAF supports the weight per side (pre-MAF). I can see you reusing the ITG filter in replace of ours, no idea if you would have clearance issues with our chosen filter location?

 

Help me understand your dyno numbers. Graphs you posted have 15HP peak difference from red line (setup 1) to yellow line (setup 4), but that to me is fully explained by difference between 17C and 22C in ambient temperature. What am I misunderstanding?

and

Can you help me understand what appears to be contradictory statements?

 

1. They aren't *our* dyno numbers
2. 5 degrees of ambient temperature is not even large enough to care about, it doesn't add up to any kind of explanation for an observed difference. 20 or 30 degrees, sure. 5 is nothing.



No, I can't. What precisely do you find contradictory?

 

SinF, on supercharged engines where the intake side losses are of little concern because they are controlled by a volumetric compressor there's really no gain from a slightly more free flowing intake unless there was a very high restriction to begin with. I have personally tested a few intakes for my personal leisure. I did NOT care for my butt dyno and at first I used 3 pressure sensors. two placed post intake silencers and one just 2 inches before the clamp of the tubing nd throttle body. I logged the vacuum with OEM filters, K&N Filters, and NO filters at idle and with a controlled 0-4000rpm acceleration. The results where nearly identical and the peak vacuum was identical. I then installed one of the well known carbon fiber intake systems and two sensors, a fast reacting temperature sensor and a pressure sensor in the area where the the tubing meets to enter the throttle body. I logged the results both on a road route as well as track laps. I then did the same with the OEM airbox (with the OEM snorkels in front of the radiator) and using K&N Filters.
The results were interesting, peak vacuum was once again nearly identical but the air temperature was higher by as much as 17 degrees when using the aftermarket setup with normal street driving and 12 degrees on average on track.
I eventually designed my own personal intake with the sole goal of sourcing the coldest air possible and certainly NOT from the void in front of the fenderwell in the engine bay.
Dyno results from changing filters with the OEM box as well as the carbon aftermarket intake was a 0whp 0whp -2whp on 3 runs...
Had this been a restrictive intake on a NA or turbo engine, where intake flaw losses can affect engine performance, I am sure the results of my testing would have been different.

Disclaimer: This is a personal opinion based on scientific testing. It is in no way promoting any products or service nor to discredit any specific vendor.

 

In your first post you said "we expect to gain around 15BHP on the V8, and around 11-12 BHP on the V6." from a kit that I understand to only include intake mods (i.e. mostly bolt-on intake tubing capped with K&N filters).

Question 1: What is exactly included in your kit other than intake tubing?
Question 2: What is exactly the source of your expected BHP gains, especially in light of your later clarification "The intake tubing we don't believe will increase HP on its own, on a stock car"? Is it K&N filters? Re-positioning of intake inlet? Something else?

 

Everything you see in the picture, tubing, couplers, mounting bracket & VelocityAP (not K&N) filter.

The filters are usually responsible for most of the gains + deletion of the stock airboxes.

 

Before we go into full production we'd like to build & test 2 kits - one to a V6 customer's car, to verify the manufacturing process. Since the prototype is built largely onto the car, it's important to verify the reproduction process is replicating accurately.

The second is to test-fit to a V8 car. We know the MAF tubing size is slightly different and will need different size couplers but also need to verify fitment.

If anyone is interested, email me at Stuart@VelocityAP.com for further info.

 

Email sent.

 

Can you please explain why the deletion of the stock airbox causes any gain in HP? Airboxes offering large volumes of air buffers post filter element/media are high beneficial to performance
Also, how does the fiter itself help increase power on a volumetrically forced induction engine?

Can you post your own dyno chart? I am genuinely curious as with all my testing I have seen no HP gains (and I have a V6 and V8 at my full disposal all the time)

Thank you

 

Hi Charles,

We'll be doing some testing soon and will report all in detail. As mentioned when we first posted this stuff, one of the primary objectives of this kit was more supercharger whine and more induction noise. Any gains in HP would be a nice bonus but we're very clear that they are expected and not observed. Based on the testing the Applebys did, we expect & hope to see a small bump. They based their design on what Jaguar SVO did on the GT4 cars. I met with SVO a couple times and they said they had observed a power increase + some weight reduction from removing the airboxes.



We'll see how it pans out.

 

Stuart:

Again in a very non confrontational manner, I must say that basing a product' s effectiveness on the claims of another company's similar product is not really fair.

With that said, I am quite familiar with the "GT4" intake you are talking about. While I have obtained one to test, I will not share my findings but I will say that the GT4 car has a number of other changes in the bumper cover, airflow that account for the majority of the minor performance improvement.
In reference to the added supercharger whine, it is certainly a very subjective taste. Obviously removing the intake silencer and the airbox increases the whine.

I am just cautioning the readers that expecting any gain in performance is unlikely and my experience with the lack of an airbox is that throttle response actually suffers. The main function of a large volume of air stored post-filter is the ability to stabilize air pulsations (dampened anyway in supercharged engines) and have a volume of air that is readily accelerated during sudden throttle angle changes. Not only the airflow benefits but the reading of the MAF sensor are far more accurate as the flow is much more linear.

If I can suggest something, I would look into sourcing air from a colder source rather than the hot fenderwell/bumper alcove.

 

Why don’t you stop trying to protect other people and wait for the test results . You are droning on and on, quit sawing sawdust.

 

Why not share? That’s the whole point of this forum.

 

Because it has been made extremely clear to me by the admins that one or more sponsors felt unhappy with my contributions... That is why the disclaimer and my most genuine attempt at cooperation rather than negative feedback. The truth of the matter on this subject is NOT to expect any performance improvement and the removal of the airbox does affect negatively throttle response. In this case Jaguar did a great job with the intake. Added SC whine, I can understand for those that like it and to achieve that both the silencer and the airbox need to be removed. It's a matter of personal preference.
This is a VAP loving community and I respect that. I am in here exclusively as an owner of two F-Type and an individual that happens to be an Automotive engineer whom enjoys honest and fact based discussions. By the same token, I dislike reading of mods that affect negatively safety, longevity/reliability or performance. In this case there is a trade for some performance aspect vs. the pleasure of hearing the supercharger whine. If the engine was turbocharged than it would be a completely different story. A supercharger in our cars, pulls 1320cc/1900cc V6/V8 of air with every revolution... That does not change, the turbofan on a turbocharger on the other hand is extremely sensitive to loss of flow on the intake side...

 

And so you have now said it one more time. What a good guy you are! Just give it a rest. You are too full of yourself to just wait and see if it tests out! Give everyone a break and shut up.

 

Charles has maintained a respectful tone, which I for one, appreciate. Please chill out.

 

Can you get some fly by videos so we can hear how it sounds on the outside?

 

I too find it odd that positioning intake inlet to where it would likely feed warm engine bay air would result in anything other than creating thermal issues under any kind of performance-minded driving. Considering that many VAP customers also running a pulley, this will further compound this issue when such mods are combined.

FType17, did you modify coolers on your modded cars? Did you coat your exhaust? Reason I am asking is that I am considering a non-invasive mod to address heat soak. I find my 100% stock car running without engine cover is right up to capacity around 35C. On days that warmer than that and the car starts heat soaking after about 10-15 hot laps. That in turn leads to power getting notably cut as ECU starts to compensate. Fortunately, where I live such days are rare.

 

+1.

 

When or if you return to the forum after your 7 Day Ban, either adopt a more respectful tone towards other members or keep your thoughts to yourself. Disagreement and valid criticism is both expected and encouraged on the forums but rudeness will not be tolerated.

Graham