Super DOT4 explained: ISO 4925 class 6
#1
08-10-2013, 06:53 PM
Super DOT4 explained: ISO 4925 class 6
Here is some information found while researching brake fluid, in particular the difference between ATE 200 and ATE SL6. This of course led down the rabbit hole as usual.
It seems that the "Super DOT4" appellation that has been flogged many times actually has a basis. That basis can be found in ISO 4925 class 6. That is a international brake fluid specification whereas DOT4 is primarily a North American specification based on FMVSS.
ISO 4925 class 6 addresses brake fluid with low temperature viscosity requirements for ABS and traction control systems. It also addresses chemical compatibility with two specific newer seal materials. All contemporary Jaguars have ABS systems.
The viscosity of such a brake fluid at -40C is in the range of 750 cST whereas typical DOT4 is in the range of 1500 cST.
The requirement for low viscosity is aimed at ABS cycle response time. In other words, how fast the system can apply and release the caliper piston when ABS or traction control is activated.
Shell claims "several times faster" whereas another vendor claims "30 percent faster".
The original specification for brake fluid in JTIS for the X308 is ITT Super DOT4.
Searching on that leads to very few references.
The best was:
source: Brake fluid replacement vs excessive rear brake wear – Did you know ?
Notice the underlined part, in addition to the original caution found in the XFR manual.
So why Super DOT4?
Because there was no matching DOTx specification that matched ISO 4925 Class 6. So, "let's just call it Super DOT4" is a best guess at the reason.
The result is that the original fill and specified replacement fill are in fact not generic DOT4. The "real" brake fluid can be called DOT4 because it fits the FMVSS standard, but the *real* brake fluid has superior operating characteristics tailored to the ABS system.
Therefore, while someone can pour generic DOT4 into their system and claim that there is no such standard as "Super" DOT4, they have in fact downgraded from the original intent, and downgraded their braking system.
In addition to the above mentioned Shell ESL Super DOT4, there is ATE SL6, as well as similar class brake fluids from Pentosin and Motul. GM and Ford branded fluids are also a possibility. (researching the specs on those is left to the reader
)
The benefits of using the above class of brake fluids would be:
- ABS reaction time, one writer mentioned "smoother ABS operation"
- better brake pad retraction resulting in longer brake pad life and better gas mileage (and probably less brake dust for those who care)
The ATE SL6 is actually a few dollars less than the ATE 200.
The easiest places to find suitable brake fluid are ... VW performance shops because VW also refers to "Super DOT4". The Pentosin that a lot of shops use is half the price of the ATE SL6.
note:
There should no longer be any question as to what Jaguar wants since the Shell spec is quite a bit easier to find than the reference to ITT.
And for those who like pictures ... see the attachment for a graphical response time comparison
Shell ESL TDS(UK version):
http://www.epc.shell.com/docs/GPCDOC...en-GB)_TDS.pdf
It seems that the "Super DOT4" appellation that has been flogged many times actually has a basis. That basis can be found in ISO 4925 class 6. That is a international brake fluid specification whereas DOT4 is primarily a North American specification based on FMVSS.
ISO 4925 class 6 addresses brake fluid with low temperature viscosity requirements for ABS and traction control systems. It also addresses chemical compatibility with two specific newer seal materials. All contemporary Jaguars have ABS systems.
The viscosity of such a brake fluid at -40C is in the range of 750 cST whereas typical DOT4 is in the range of 1500 cST.
The requirement for low viscosity is aimed at ABS cycle response time. In other words, how fast the system can apply and release the caliper piston when ABS or traction control is activated.
Shell claims "several times faster" whereas another vendor claims "30 percent faster".
The original specification for brake fluid in JTIS for the X308 is ITT Super DOT4.
Searching on that leads to very few references.
The best was:
Getting prepared for the job, I went to my Jaguar Dealer and bought the brake fluid they use, two bottles of Super DOT 4 fluid. Sounded normal at this point. Then I read the section in the Workshop Manual. You never know, sometimes there are specifics in there. Here is what I found. Quite specific!
CAUTION: Do not use brake fluid ITT Super Dot 4 on 2006my vehicles onwards. Failure to follow this instruction may result in damage to the vehicle.
• NOTE: Brake fluid ITT Super Dot 4 has now been superseded by Shell ESL Super Dot 4, which is the Jaguar recommended brake fluid. Shell ESL Super Dot 4 can be used on all model years.
I looked up the specs for this ESL thing. As per Shell, ESL stands for (Extended System Life), but really it is a lower viscosity fluid. Here is Shell’s description of the product :
A high performance, low viscosity brake and clutch fluid with superior materials compatibility ideal for ABS, electronic stability and traction control systems – suitable for OEM applications.
In fact, the viscosity is half of the Super Dot 4! Roughly 700 vs. 1440 mm2/s. (Kinematic Viscosity at -40C (mm2/s) to be more technical.)
So, one thing popped in my little head. I read a lot about fellows XF owners complaining about the fast (excessive) rear brakes wear and the cost of having them replaced. I thought, “no wonder, if the fluid is twice as thick as Jaguar recommendation it is likely to built resistance when you release the brakes.”
CAUTION: Do not use brake fluid ITT Super Dot 4 on 2006my vehicles onwards. Failure to follow this instruction may result in damage to the vehicle.
• NOTE: Brake fluid ITT Super Dot 4 has now been superseded by Shell ESL Super Dot 4, which is the Jaguar recommended brake fluid. Shell ESL Super Dot 4 can be used on all model years.
I looked up the specs for this ESL thing. As per Shell, ESL stands for (Extended System Life), but really it is a lower viscosity fluid. Here is Shell’s description of the product :
A high performance, low viscosity brake and clutch fluid with superior materials compatibility ideal for ABS, electronic stability and traction control systems – suitable for OEM applications.
In fact, the viscosity is half of the Super Dot 4! Roughly 700 vs. 1440 mm2/s. (Kinematic Viscosity at -40C (mm2/s) to be more technical.)
So, one thing popped in my little head. I read a lot about fellows XF owners complaining about the fast (excessive) rear brakes wear and the cost of having them replaced. I thought, “no wonder, if the fluid is twice as thick as Jaguar recommendation it is likely to built resistance when you release the brakes.”
Notice the underlined part, in addition to the original caution found in the XFR manual.
So why Super DOT4?
Because there was no matching DOTx specification that matched ISO 4925 Class 6. So, "let's just call it Super DOT4" is a best guess at the reason.
The result is that the original fill and specified replacement fill are in fact not generic DOT4. The "real" brake fluid can be called DOT4 because it fits the FMVSS standard, but the *real* brake fluid has superior operating characteristics tailored to the ABS system.
Therefore, while someone can pour generic DOT4 into their system and claim that there is no such standard as "Super" DOT4, they have in fact downgraded from the original intent, and downgraded their braking system.
In addition to the above mentioned Shell ESL Super DOT4, there is ATE SL6, as well as similar class brake fluids from Pentosin and Motul. GM and Ford branded fluids are also a possibility. (researching the specs on those is left to the reader
)The benefits of using the above class of brake fluids would be:
- ABS reaction time, one writer mentioned "smoother ABS operation"
- better brake pad retraction resulting in longer brake pad life and better gas mileage (and probably less brake dust for those who care)
The ATE SL6 is actually a few dollars less than the ATE 200.
The easiest places to find suitable brake fluid are ... VW performance shops because VW also refers to "Super DOT4". The Pentosin that a lot of shops use is half the price of the ATE SL6.
note:
There should no longer be any question as to what Jaguar wants since the Shell spec is quite a bit easier to find than the reference to ITT.
And for those who like pictures ... see the attachment for a graphical response time comparison
Shell ESL TDS(UK version):
http://www.epc.shell.com/docs/GPCDOC...en-GB)_TDS.pdf
Last edited by plums; 08-10-2013 at 07:33 PM.
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#2
08-16-2013, 02:06 AM
a real life experience
These quotes came from an owner of a 1995 Miata and 2006 Volvo who changed to ATE SL6. He was already a user of the ATE Super Blue which is a highly rated DOT4.
Anyone used ATE SL.6 DOT 4 brake fluid? - MX-5 Miata Forum
miata
volvo
Got the shop to trade the Super Blue for SL6 this afternoon 
Anyone used ATE SL.6 DOT 4 brake fluid? - MX-5 Miata Forum
miata
The ATE SL.6 DOT 4 fluid did make a noticeable change in the action of the ABS. Before, I'd take the tires all the way to lockup and I'd get one release of the brakes to get the tires rolling again, then the ABS wouldn't catch any more lockup after that. I'd feel one snap on the brake pedal, and that was it. Today I took it out at the same speeds on the same stretch of road with the tires warmed up just like before, and the ABS would give me a nice little tap, tap, tap on the brake pedal as it intervened in a more gentle and progressive way. I tore up and down the stretch of road testing this in 60 mph to 20 mph stops (didn't really want to flat spot a tire) and found that when the ABS finally did kick in, it was more subtle than before.
I changed the fluid on my Volvo S40 yesterday and was absolutely astounded at how much better the brakes felt and ABS worked in the car.
Last edited by plums; 08-16-2013 at 02:08 AM.
The following 3 users liked this post by plums:
#3
08-16-2016, 02:50 AM
Veteran Member
#4
02-01-2017, 08:24 PM
Senior Member
#5
02-02-2018, 12:46 PM
Senior Member
... That basis can be found in ISO 4925 class 6. That is a international brake fluid specification whereas DOT4 is primarily a North American specification based on FMVSS.
ISO 4925 class 6 addresses brake fluid with low temperature viscosity requirements for ABS and traction control systems. It also addresses chemical compatibility with two specific newer seal materials. All contemporary Jaguars have ABS systems.
...In addition to the above mentioned Shell ESL Super DOT4, there is ATE SL6, as well as similar class brake fluids from Pentosin and Motul. GM and Ford branded fluids are also a possibility. (researching the specs on those is left to the reader )
ISO 4925 class 6 addresses brake fluid with low temperature viscosity requirements for ABS and traction control systems. It also addresses chemical compatibility with two specific newer seal materials. All contemporary Jaguars have ABS systems.
...In addition to the above mentioned Shell ESL Super DOT4, there is ATE SL6, as well as similar class brake fluids from Pentosin and Motul. GM and Ford branded fluids are also a possibility. (researching the specs on those is left to the reader
)
Here are the specs per the can:
"Boiling point: 265 degrees C (509 degrees F) min.
Wet boiling point: 175 degrees C (347 degrees F) min.
This DOT 4 MOTOR VEHICLE BRAKE FLUID meets and exceeds FMVSS section 571.116/ DOT4, SAE J1704 and ISO 4925, Class 6."
These specs seem to be similar to those claimed for Shell ESL, so I am calling this good.
#6
02-06-2018, 10:30 AM
Banned
Interesting information in this thread.
I wonder if these differences translate to measurable changes in ABS and ESP in everyday driving.
Whilst Plums and others correctly highlight significant viscosity differences with later specs having lower viscosity it should be noted that these differences are at -40°C whereas the differences at 100°C are of the order of 2.1 to 2.3
Given that most of us don't drive in conditions when brake fluid temperature is at or near -40°C I wonder whether the very small differences at higher temperature are more significant.
Be interesting to know viscosity differences at typical brake fluid temperature.
I wonder if these differences translate to measurable changes in ABS and ESP in everyday driving.
Whilst Plums and others correctly highlight significant viscosity differences with later specs having lower viscosity it should be noted that these differences are at -40°C whereas the differences at 100°C are of the order of 2.1 to 2.3
Given that most of us don't drive in conditions when brake fluid temperature is at or near -40°C I wonder whether the very small differences at higher temperature are more significant.
Be interesting to know viscosity differences at typical brake fluid temperature.
Last edited by Paul_59; 02-06-2018 at 10:33 AM.
#7
01-29-2020, 06:28 AM
I have a 2015 XF Portfolio with 45k, mostly road trip miles. I noticed a bit of fluid on my garage floor yesterday (around the middle of the engine (often condensate from the AC), but my wife said that the 'Brake Pad' warning light came on while driving home tonight (when the car was in for service, they said all pads had over half the material left). When it gets light out, I'm going to check the brake fluid level, likely top it up and have the dealer troubleshoot the issue and replace the brake fluid since it has probably never been done.
This is a CPO vehicle, does anyone have any idea of how much of the work will be covered?
Since the fluid is going to be replaced anyway, I am planing on topping up with standard DOT4 available at my local Advance Auto parts store. What their website recommends (for my specific vehicle) is Pentosin DOT 4 LV (for vehicles requiring low viscosity fluid).
Elsewhere in these posts, recommendations are for Shell ESL Super Dot 4, difficult to find. Is this also a low viscosity fluid?
This is a CPO vehicle, does anyone have any idea of how much of the work will be covered?
Since the fluid is going to be replaced anyway, I am planing on topping up with standard DOT4 available at my local Advance Auto parts store. What their website recommends (for my specific vehicle) is Pentosin DOT 4 LV (for vehicles requiring low viscosity fluid).
Elsewhere in these posts, recommendations are for Shell ESL Super Dot 4, difficult to find. Is this also a low viscosity fluid?
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