MKI / MKII S type 240 340 & Daimler 1955 - 1967

1967 420 Wood Refinishing

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Old Apr 25, 2023 | 09:34 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by JeffR1
More then one vacuum cleaner then...?
If breather mesh would have been used, it may have worked.
It allows even clamping as it makes the vacuum dispersed across flat surfaces.
I was using a proper veneering vacuum press, it had the grid to allow even vacuum and a vacuum pump to evacuate the bag. It was clamped tight, but the wood swelled and bubbled and didn't adhere to the substrate.
 
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Old Apr 25, 2023 | 12:09 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Jagboi64
I was using a proper veneering vacuum press, it had the grid to allow even vacuum and a vacuum pump to evacuate the bag. It was clamped tight, but the wood swelled and bubbled and didn't adhere to the substrate.
Did it bubble all over or in just one spot ?
Sorry, I have you confused with Homer.

What did you do about it, and did you find out the cause of the bubbles ?
 

Last edited by JeffR1; Apr 25, 2023 at 12:14 PM.
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Old Apr 25, 2023 | 10:55 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by JeffR1
Did it bubble all over or in just one spot ?
Sorry, I have you confused with Homer.

What did you do about it, and did you find out the cause of the bubbles ?
One spot, about 4" diameter. I ran the piece through the thickness sander to take the veneer off and veneered it again, this time using much less glue. Then it stuck and didn't bubble
 
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Old Apr 26, 2023 | 01:24 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Jagboi64
One spot, about 4" diameter. I ran the piece through the thickness sander to take the veneer off and veneered it again, this time using much less glue. Then it stuck and didn't bubble
What kind of glue did you use, you mentioned formaldehyde ?
I'm aware of heat activated glue, but it is water base as far as I know, it's left to dry a certain time after applying to both surfaces and it's then heated to adhere the veneer in place ?
I think it can be ironed on too.

So what happened in your case is there was still too much water in the glue because it was applied to thick ?

Just trying to learn as much as possible here, I plan on doing the veneer some time, and I feel comfortable with a 2 part epoxy resin glue with a 24 hour curing time.
With that epoxy, there is a good hour to 1 and a half hours working time.
 

Last edited by JeffR1; Apr 26, 2023 at 02:28 AM.
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Old Apr 26, 2023 | 04:54 AM
  #45  
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I have to say that I'm learning a lot from this thread about the practicalities of veneer work on our cars. I've patch repaired furniture and other non-car stuff and taken the veneer off a piano lid and used it in making radio box, but the discussion here is very useful.
 
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Old Apr 26, 2023 | 09:43 AM
  #46  
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I used yellow glue, Titebond II. The formaldehyde glues would be ideal, and were previously the standard for veneer, but are unavailable now.
I think the problem was I did have too much glue and that swelled the wood. I live in a very dry climate ( for example last week the relative humidity was 1%) and I think the veneer swelled when it came in contact with the glue. I think the veneer absorbed the moisture faster than the vacuum could remove it, and the glue set around the edges first forcing up the bubble in the middle of the table top.

Working time wasn't the problem, it was the wood moving after going into the vacuum bag that was my problem. I'm sure that a heat activated glue would have no problem.
 
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Old Apr 26, 2023 | 12:35 PM
  #47  
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Even if formaldehyde glue was available, the stuff has a shelf life, and a 20 year life span after it sets, so I've been told.
When my Dad went to teachers college, he built a number of things, including this oak desk, the professor was a stickler for that glue.
We still have the desk and matching chair, the chair seems to be OK, but I've re-glued the desk at least once here and there.

Some of the Teak furniture in the house needs attention too, it was bought new and although it's doing OK, a couple of the chairs need re-gluing on some of the joints.
I believe that formaldehyde glue was used.

What did Jaguar use, I wonder ?
 
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Old Apr 26, 2023 | 02:17 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by JeffR1
What did Jaguar use, I wonder ?
Since the 90's they have used a heat activated glue and put the layers in a press, especially when bonding to a metal substrate. There they have the metal substrate, 7 layers of poplar and the walnut on top, with sheets of heat activated glue in-between each layer.

I don't know what they would have used in the 60's, certainly not PVA glues. Maybe formaldehyde base glue, or hide glue?
 
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Old Apr 27, 2023 | 07:50 PM
  #49  
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Emboldened by the discussion, I removed the front driver side door piece and stripped off the old finish. I lightly sanded it was some 320 grit then sprayed several light coats of gloss polyurethane. I let each coat dry 24 hours. After the last coat I lightly sanded it was 2000 grit sand paper. I then put a flannel wheel on my low-speed buffer and polished the finish, then gave it a coat of wax.

In the picture below the strip I refinished is on the left, the un-refinished passenger side strip is on the right.


Closer look.


Refinished strip reinstalled on driver's side door.


Thank you to all for the help and great discussion!
 
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Old May 4, 2023 | 04:37 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by Thorsen
Emboldened by the discussion, I removed the front driver side door piece and stripped off the old finish. I lightly sanded it was some 320 grit then sprayed several light coats of gloss polyurethane. I let each coat dry 24 hours. After the last coat I lightly sanded it was 2000 grit sand paper. I then put a flannel wheel on my low-speed buffer and polished the finish, then gave it a coat of wax.

In the picture below the strip I refinished is on the left, the un-refinished passenger side strip is on the right.


Closer look.


Refinished strip reinstalled on driver's side door.


Thank you to all for the help and great discussion!
A bit late, but do you have the ferrules on the screws in the door cappings?
 
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Old May 4, 2023 | 04:54 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by Peter3442
A bit late, but do you have the ferrules on the screws in the door cappings?
Probably not. What do they look like?
 
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Old May 4, 2023 | 05:25 PM
  #52  
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They are small rings that protect the wood from the screw head and help to prevent it sinking into the wood. If you look carefully in the second photo from the top in post no. 12 by Cass, you can see them. Ferrule might be the wrong name. I think it's the cup washer in the link below:

https://www.sngbarratt.com/English/#...up%20washer%60
 
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Old May 4, 2023 | 05:27 PM
  #53  
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Thank you - I will put them in my cart.
 
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Old May 4, 2023 | 05:31 PM
  #54  
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Check them against your parts book first!
 
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Old May 4, 2023 | 06:17 PM
  #55  
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This is them. Early 420's had the full S Type treatment & not just the padded roll & garnish rail.















 

Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; May 4, 2023 at 07:27 PM.
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