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My biggest objection to a Derrington is that the horn ring clatters on the lower vertical spoke of the wheel. I also prefer it with an S Type centre cover & horn push.
I prefer this woodrim that Vic Derrington made as an option for Lyons for Jaguar. Jaguar Part No. C25198
I just bought my S-Type and had the garage replace the aftermarket wood steering wheel with the larger original one. The car steers better with the original to my mind.
What year is your S Type ~ it makes a big difference to feel? The S Type had 4 steering boxes fitted in it's life cycle,
1) Manual ~ over 4 turns lock to lock. Manual states 4.25 (multiple ratios shown elsewhere to assist with parking ~ especially when Radial Tyres became available). ~ Had some feel for road conditions
2) 1st Type Burman PAS ~ felt like the car was steering itself or by remote control ~ no feel at all! (Scribes state 4.3 turns lock to lock. Manual states 4.9).
3) 2nd Type Burman PAS ~ with torsion bar & quill valve ~ much better feel ~ works well with 15" wheel (3.0 turns lock to lock ex Manual ~ scribes say 3.5)
4) Bendix Marles "Varamatic" made under license by Adwest in Reading ~ PAS. (2.78 turns lock to lock ~ Manual says 2.75 ~ we are not going to argue). The best! Feels great with a 15" steering wheel. Variable ratio to follow the slip angle of the front wheels. Originally designed in Australia for the nose wheel of aircraft. Commercialised by Bendix Corp for cars. Jaguar MkX first car in the world to use in late 1964. (October)
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; Dec 17, 2022 at 10:29 AM.
Reason: Typo on turns
I apologise for edits to above. It is a minefield. As you can see it is somewhat muddled. I would use Jaguar Numbers ex Service Manuals which I have stated clearly although I raise an eyebrow at 4.9 turns lock to lock with PAS. I think it is a mistake in the Service Manual.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; Dec 17, 2022 at 10:58 AM.
What year is your S Type ~ it makes a big difference to feel? The S Type had 4 steering boxes fitted in it's life cycle,
1) Manual ~ over 4 turns lock to lock. Manual states 4.25 (multiple ratios shown elsewhere to assist with parking ~ especially when Radial Tyres became available). ~ Had some feel for road conditions
2) 1st Type Burman PAS ~ felt like the car was steering itself or by remote control ~ no feel at all! (Scribes state 4.3 turns lock to lock. Manual states 4.9).
3) 2nd Type Burman PAS ~ with torsion bar & quill valve ~ much better feel ~ works well with 15" wheel (3.0 turns lock to lock ex Manual ~ scribes say 3.5)
4) Bendix Marles "Varamatic" made under license by Adwest in Reading ~ PAS. (2.78 turns lock to lock ~ Manual says 2.75 ~ we are not going to argue). The best! Feels great with a 15" steering wheel. Variable ratio to follow the slip angle of the front wheels. Originally designed in Australia for the nose wheel of aircraft. Commercialised by Bendix Corp for cars. Jaguar MkX first car in the world to use in late 1964. (October)
Mines a RHD 1966 3.8 S automatic. Originally registered in England, currently residing in Switzerland and likely retiring to Scotland (both me and the Jag)!
I've no experience of the PAS systems. I've a suspicion that many of the shortcomings of the unassisted Burman box arise more from the chassis than the steering box. After all, similar designs worked very well in contemporary Alfas and Ferraris, including the 250GTO. The caster angle and the low gearing of the box are to facilitate parking in spite of the weight of the XK engine on the front wheels. Though the steering feel is OK (for me), the low gearing and huge wheel makes quick corrections difficult. Compounded with the Mk2's tendency to understeer, nothing happens at first. Turn the wheel some more and it's easy to go way too far. Given the non-linear stiffness of the Mk2 leaf springs and some weak dampers, either a four wheeled version of a tank slapper or terminal oversteer can be on the cards. Some judicious throttle can help on bends, but it takes practice - something that used to be possible in the UK on supermarket car parks when they didn't open on Sundays.
To cut a long story short, the search for good steering shouldn't be restricted to the steering box. A higher geared PAS system will improve things. However, increasing caster to 3°, zero or slightly negative camber, good dampers, and, for the Mk2, a major revisit of the rear suspension are essential to obtain the full benefit.
Last edited by Peter3442; Dec 17, 2022 at 02:07 PM.
Mines a RHD 1966 3.8 S automatic. Originally registered in England, currently residing in Switzerland and likely retiring to Scotland (both me and the Jag)!
Then it's fitted with the 2nd Type Burman PAS. Same as my car. My car has the standard wheel & drives very nicely with slight oversteer at the limit. All suspension settings to the book at present. See my signature. My car was No 4 off of the SA line which really makes it a '66. Somehow registered December 1965. Production at CDA did not start until early '66 ~ issue never resolved. So I call it a '65
I have 1 of 4 made woodrim 15" wheels not yet fitted. It was made by a chap that works at Nardi. It is a Nardi wheel with a Moto Lita hub. It is being done in high gloss at present to match the rest of the car by a master at wood finishing. Old school friend. Very shallow dish. The seller preferred satin finish ~ who was I to argue.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; Dec 17, 2022 at 05:13 PM.
Then it's fitted with the 2nd Type Burman PAS. Same as my car. My car has the standard wheel & drives very nicely with slight oversteer at the limit. All suspension settings to the book at present. See my signature. My car was No 4 off of the SA line which really makes it a '66. Somehow registered December 1965. Production at CDA did not start until early '66 ~ issue never resolved. So I call it a '65
I have 1 of 4 made woodrim 15" wheels not yet fitted. It was made by a chap that works at Nardi. It is a Nardi wheel with a Moto Lita hub. It is being done in high gloss at present to match the rest of the car by a master at wood finishing. Old school friend. Very shallow dish. The seller preferred satin finish ~ who was I to argue.
I'm going with the don't fix what ain't broke programme. To be honest I think the extra leverage and knurled original fits me & my skeletal geometry better than the aftermarket wood 15", as does the stock aesthetic. I would say I'm a purist, but I'm not. I just know what I like😃
I've no experience of the PAS systems. I've a suspicion that many of the shortcomings of the unassisted Burman box arise more from the chassis than the steering box. After all, similar designs worked very well in contemporary Alfas and Ferraris, including the 250GTO. The caster angle and the low gearing of the box are to facilitate parking in spite of the weight of the XK engine on the front wheels. Though the steering feel is OK (for me), the low gearing and huge wheel makes quick corrections difficult. Compounded with the Mk2's tendency to understeer, nothing happens at first. Turn the wheel some more and it's easy to go way too far. Given the non-linear stiffness of the Mk2 leaf springs and some weak dampers, either a four wheeled version of a tank slapper or terminal oversteer can be on the cards. Some judicious throttle can help on bends, but it takes practice - something that used to be possible in the UK on supermarket car parks when they didn't open on Sundays.
To cut a long story short, the search for good steering shouldn't be restricted to the steering box. A higher geared PAS system will improve things. However, increasing caster to 3°, zero or slightly negative camber, good dampers, and, for the Mk2, a major revisit of the rear suspension are essential to obtain the full benefit.
Well my bank robbing days are over, so I'm more than happy to settle into the sedate driving style of the grand tourer that is my S-Type. Ok to be honest I loved the similar handling 38 years ago when I had my Mk1. That said I do miss the overdrive or boy-racer startler as I used to call it.
I'm going with the don't fix what ain't broke programme. To be honest I think the extra leverage and knurled original fits me & my skeletal geometry better than the aftermarket wood 15", as does the stock aesthetic. I would say I'm a purist, but I'm not. I just know what I like😃
Sounds like an eminently sensible approach and it's your car & you should do what you like.
The 2nd Type Burman PAS ~ with torsion bar & quill valve is a very interesting steering box. It reacts to the torque/pull you input at the steering wheel which gives very good feel. I like it.
Mine at present outside workshop where we restored her. Excuse the mess ~ further construction taking place with hoist still mounted outdoors etc. & spray booth standalone.
Telephone cameras never get colours right. It is the 1976 XJ6 version of BRG. Interior biscuit.
On it's way to the big carrier from Johannesburg to Cape Town where I live.
Some protective film still on boot lid plinth etc.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; Dec 18, 2022 at 07:03 AM.
Practical classics vs their posher concourse cousins.
Originally Posted by Glyn M Ruck
Sounds like an eminently sensible approach and it's your car & you should do what you like.
The 2nd Type Burman PAS ~ with torsion bar & quill valve is a very interesting steering box. It reacts to the torque/pull you input at the steering wheel which gives very good feel. I like it.
Mine at present outside workshop where we restored her. Excuse the mess ~ further construction taking place with hoist still mounted outdoors etc. & spray booth standalone.
Telephone cameras never get colours right. It is the 1976 XJ6 version of BRG. Interior biscuit.
On it's way to the big carrier from Johannesburg to Cape Town where I live.
Some protective film still on boot lid plinth etc.
Yours looks fantastic. Mine is definitely more good runner quality living a life less ordinary as RHD in a LHD country. Even the radio works, but apparently no one's broadcasting🙄.
I may make a couple of mods: automatic choke switch and possibly replacing the ballasted coil with a 3 ohm one or install a 123 distributor. Bought in November with wooden steering wheel, delivered Thanksgiving with original figment and now garaged for the winter.
As test driven. As delivered. Home for the winter. My favourite view Wishing the last owner hadn't riveted the XJ6 Jaguar badges to the front wings.
Looks like a neat car not full of rust. Very similar to mine when we started. Colour seems Old English White as mine was on solid wheels with original caps. I moved to wires. Funny what bugs certain people. I agree & would get rid of the XJ6 badges. What strikes me as odd is the white? piping on the seats & console. I would dye that seat colour which seems black.
To each his own. I don't criticise other peoples cars. If they are happy then I am happy. At least you are saving another S Type from the hotrodders that only want the IRS.
You should join us on the S Type Register. Informative forums section. Get your car registered if it's not there already. Jaguar 'S'-type Register
Looks like a neat car not full of rust. Very similar to mine when we started. Colour seems Old English White as mine was on solid wheels with original caps. I moved to wires. Funny what bugs certain people. I agree & would get rid of the XJ6 badges. What strikes me as odd is the white? piping on the seats & console. I would dye that seat colour which seems black.
To each his own. I don't criticise other peoples cars. If they are happy then I am happy. At least you are saving another S Type from the hotrodders that only want the IRS.
You should join us on the S Type Register. Informative forums section. Get your car registered if it's not there already. Jaguar 'S'-type Register
I'm not what the previous owner was thinking, but I can't see it when I'm driving so it's all good!
I prefer this look to the 3-spoked add ons.
