Has anyone had power steering installed on a 1965 Jaguar MK2 3.8? Advice appreciated.
MJB

 

You basically have 3 Jaguar hydraulic choices that were fitted to Mk2's & some recommended others. Give us some more details as to your preferences. e.g. preferred turns lock to lock. Very light in town, Not overboosted at high speed cruising.etc. What is your average car usage?

You will have to beef up your drop arm & idler arm or they can be bent if you try & turn against a curb etc. Standard Jaguar PAS fitment.

1) Burman Type 1 with Hobourn Eaton pump on rear of generator (good)
2) Burman Type 2 with Hobourn Eaton pump on rear of generator & torsion bar quill valve (much better)
3) Marles Bendix (Adwest) Varamatic steering & Hobourn Eaton pump on rear of generator (best of OE hydraulic)
4) EZ Steer electric. Jaguar Mark 2 Well liked if you are happy with your present manual steering ratio. Alternative ratios available
5) RetroRack - Power Steering Rack and Pinion kits and Automotive Products. There are any number of end steer rack & pinion steering options that will mess up your Ackermann angles & scrub front tyres more & more as you approach full lock, create bump steer etc..

This unit has been well conceived. Centre steer rack.


Good luck!

 

If you are looking for a second hand system then my choice would be the Adwest variomatic.
Easy to rebuild with new seals unlike the older Burman systems. Adjustable for feel unlike the Bermans.
It has a better lock to lock ration of three turns against the Burmans four and a half.
All the Jaguar 420s were fitted with the Adwest system and as 420s are broken up more than Mk2 they are easier to come across. Later 240s and 240s were also fitted with the Adwest as were the S type after 1967.

For fitting any of the PAS boxes you will need the cross member to have a notch. These are standard on PAS cars but you might have to cut one on a Non PAS cross member. This is where the PAS box sits as it is larger than a standard non PAS box. The lower steering column in the engine bay is a different length because of the increased size of the steering box as well.

The pump on the S Type, 240 and 340 were all driven from the back of the generator and the cars were positive earth. The 420 had a different pump driven from an auxiliary belt but there is no room to fit this pump to the Mk2. There are now modern alternators one known as a "Dynalite" another called a "Dynamator" which are identical to the Lucas C42 Generator and have the driving dog on the back to turn the original PAS pump. I have this fitted to my S Type and run Negative earth.

In summary I would look for a 420 being broken and steal the whole front cross member with the Adwest PAS system and lower steering column. Gives you uprated front brakes at the same time. (It is a straight swap with the Mk2 front cross member). Buy a "Dynamator" or equivalent with a Holborn Eaton PAS pump from a Mk2 or S type. Hydraulic pipes can be made up. You will need the fluid reservoir. This way it is quite easy to fit and your steering geometry is not altered. If you go for a rack and pinion system expect lots of sorting out and fiddling as the system was not designed for the Mk2 where as the 420 system is basically plug and play. If you want to build your own and run an electric PAS pump expect lots of problems with pump pressures which you will find more about if you read some of the back posts of members attempting this method.
.

 

just find a complete system from a 1963-1965 S type and forget about replacing the complete front member / suspension, too much hassle.

you will need the fluid can with hoses, the generator with adapter, the half steering column section, and the steering box with hoses.

But don't expect one finger steering, these are not modern power assist systems. They still require two hands to park the car.

 

Hi all,

Agree with all of the above. I've fitted a Burman steering box to my car but found that it was not necessary to create a 'dip' in the subframe as suggested by Cass3958 - I believe you would have to do so if fitting the later Adwest one however. As Jose states, don't expect finger touch assistance but it's certainly better than unassisted steering, particularly with radial tyres instead of the original Crossplies. It's a fiddle to fit the PAS box, particularly fitting the lower steering column, due to the confined space so I would certainly fit new seals etc beforehand - you don't want to have to remove it once fitted due to leaks (which these old boxes are prone to). Good luck.

 

Another agree with all the above. If I were going for an OE system, I'd make it the Marles Adwest as it is definitely the best by all reports (and the fact that it's the last type Jaguar fitted to these cars) and I'd look out for a complete front sub-frame with all ancillaries from a 420. I regret that I didn't buy one when I had the chance a few months ago.

The electric systems that bolt in the steering column have good reports. The EZ system is quite expensive. My concern about them is the loads they may put into the steering box and arms that were never designed for them. And, if I were fitting it, I'd also buy a high ratio steering box to go with it. What's the point of lighter steering if you still have to do all that wheel twirling?

Rack and pinion is the modern way. There are kits and home conversions. Some say it all works great and others disagree. However, there's likely to be bump steer and a lack of Ackerman. There are also complaints of a poor turning circle.

The front suspension wishbones of the Mk2 family have a lot of trail. To match it as the wheels go up and down, the steering needs long track rods to avoid toe-out on bump or droop. Most of the commonly available (and less expensive) racks don't allow it (if you can find/afford one, centre take-off as in the video above does). The effect can be reduced by stiffening the suspension. Ackerman is making the inside wheel turn more than the outside as it follows a smaller radius circle, especially on slow tight turns. To achieve it with a rack, you could locate the rack as far back as possible, but the sump is in the way and, if it wasn't, it would demand even longer track rods. Alternatively, you increase the lateral offset (or inset) of the track rod-steering arm joint relative to the steering (king pin) axis. I don't know if that's possible with a mix of Mk2 and the usual series XJ parts (whenever the subject comes up I don't have access to my cars to measure, not that it's easy to measure).

In summary, for a good, minimum effort, effective option, I'd go 420. If you don't mind a lot of engineering or spending a lot of money or worry about bump steer, Ackerman or turning circle, then think of a rack and pinion.

 

Jose you need the cross member as the PAS steering box will not fit the standard non PAS cross member. There is a notch cut out of the PAS cross member that a lot of the early Mk2 Jaguars did not have nor need as the standard steering box is a lot less bulk. It would be lovely to get the complete system off an S Type but I would not want anyone to break an S Type but don't mind the 420 going to the wall.

 

Cass over here rotting S types, 420, Mk-X or 420-G are parted out daily. No regard for these cars. Parts parts parts.

​​​​​​I remember a 420 inside the second floor of an office building in Nashville Tennessee that had been there for decades. How it got there nobody knew. There was no way to get it out without a crane and breaking a wall, or cutting the floor and letting its weight break through the floor. I sure wanted to get a bunch of parts from it before it fell through to the 1st floor. Don't know what happened to it.

 

Marles Bendix (Adwest) Varamatic steering









Cut out in standard crossmember for Varamatic.




credit Orlando.

 

Most people find Jag PAS too light. I think only the Burman Type 1 might be a little heavy as it runs at 800 ~ 850psi. (63/64 built cars)
The others run at 1000psi.

The 420 with the Varamatic & Saginaw pump runs at 1200 psi. The Varamatic in an S Type/Mk2 runs at 1000psi & is light enough.

With the Retrorack center steer rack I'm told you can engineer it into the standard Jaguar centre tie rod and keep geometry standard.

 

Since fitting the Burman box & system to my car I was expecting really light steering. However, as Glyn says, due to the slower speed of the dynamo-powered pump, it's actually heavier than I was expecting. However, overall I'm really pleased with the result. In due course I may fit a Dynamotor alternator in place of the dynamo - I was planning to fit one of those but supply dried up due to the tanker that got stuck in the Suez canal ! Just to re-iterate - if you fit a Burman steering box you do NOT need to cut into the subframe.

 

I find that the Variomatic Adwest Marles PAS which is fitted as standard on my September 1967 built S Type is very light when driving. It is not so light at standstill as I would like as my car is an Automatic. With a manual you can increase the revs whilst slipping the clutch to get the pump turning over quicker increasing the psi the pump is producing. With the Auto box this is not possible and you are stuck at 600 rpm when manoeuvring and you don't have the same light feel at standstill but you still have some power assistance. This is possibly why the 420 changed to a pump that produced a greater psi.

 

Minor moan here.
It is amazing to me why when describing a new type of product like this center steering rack, people don't actually show it moving so you can see the action. Also no mention of power assist possibility.
It seems to be a very beautifully made product however the website is not active.

 

The pumps post approx Oct '64 build produce 1000psi at 1000RPM. Anything above that is bled back to tank by the pressure relief valve. I think you are right Rob. For an Auto vs Manual those few extra RPM might make all the difference. Unless you accelerate it against the brakes & force more torque converter slip. But there is a limit to that.

 

All I can say is that it is Power Assisted. Pressure/boost variable with speed etc. The hydraulic ram is internal. As he says in the video it comes with all the braided pipework etc.

What we don't know are the pump requirements.

 

Just tried the RetroRack website and it seems to be running now. They don't list a kit for our cars, but I imagine that it could be arranged. They are works of art, which unfortunately has to be paid for at Aus$ 3,400. If only I'd thought more about making money when I was young ...

 

Yes ~ I'm pleased when I was young that my Dad took me by the ear and said to me, son, you are going to learn to budget, save & invest. You are going to stop buying a new Alfa everytime a new model is launched. Even with the company pension scheme you are going to budget to retire at 50. Then any years you work after that are a bonus. Long expat assignment helped the strategy.

When you are in your late teens/early twenties it always seems amazing how much your parents have learned over the last few years. LOL!

 

One mod I guess you could make is to fit a smaller pulley to the generator/dynamo to spin it a little faster. It is my understanding that Jaguar did play around with that to suite different circumstances.

 

I did that when I did my alternator conversion. I used the 4.2 E Type alternator pulley, which is quite a bit smaller than a dynamo pulley. My steering has plenty of assist. While it's not 1980's Lincoln Town Car sort of over-assisted, I wouldn't want it any lighter. Certainly easy to parallel park with it.

 

That's exactly what you need PAS for with these cars. I remember, when my Mk2 was my daily driver, I'd stop next to a space, get out, take off my coat, get back in and manoeuvre into the space. Not the sort of thing you can do nowadays.

The only problem with the steering in normal driving was that it didn't produce much effect between determined understeer and low gearing. To tighten the line on a fast bend, a delicate, but brave, touch of throttle had much better result.