Peter,


Sounds like you received good input. I would always say buy what will make you happy and not worry too much about the resale when it comes to classic cars like these as they all will at least hold their value and more likely continue to rise in value.


Jeff,


I understand if you are familiar with carbs that is good for you and you should do what you enjoy. I was just giving input that for resale you will see the prices for restomods with modern fuel injected computer controlled LS engines be a LOT higher versus the carb V8's. I have seen cars with old school V8's sell for basically what they have in cost for the upgrades and car yet I have seen modern LS versions with all the other modern items like I have done out sell numbers matching perfectly restored cars so that increased value can be double or more than an old school engine.


I know what you mean with electronics but the electronics are generally US made and very reliable. Driving both I can tell you that the electronic is much more reliable and easy. I can see the reason they will command significant higher resale value. Once you get the ECU programmed to match all the specifics to your car then the car is bullet proof as the computer compensates for altitude, and so many variables that it is the same as the most reliable cars built now. I have put on 40,000 miles trouble free in the last 18 months and have no fear driving the car daily, driving the car hundreds of miles anywhere including stop and go, etc.; now how many Jaguar owners are confident to do that with their old technology engines? These ECU's I am referring to are either the stock GM ones or high quality US made ones specific for engine swaps. They are very reliable which is why so many people use the GM LS engines in so many classic restomods and these are engines designed to be controlled by that ECU, etc. not an old carb engine attempting to add fuel injection, etc. there is a big difference. Now an old school iron 350 V8 sell for pennies compared to an LS engine. I almost gave away my 350 yet a modern LS will sell for $5K to $15K and that is from a mild 400 HP create engine to a 630 HP Mast Performance create motor.


Ultimately you should do what you are comfortable with but I used to have the same opinion but am favoring the modern fuel injected ECU engines more. I have used Perlux to make old Datsun 240Z's more reliable and yes that helps but I am more confident in taking my Jag from sea level to 12,000 feet in the mountains traveling 400 miles than my old Datsun...

 

To each his own, if I ever go to sell my Jag or Bentley, I'll put the electronic ignition back in, but that will never happen while I'm driving it.
I will never trust fuel injection and even though the components may be made in the US, I just can't get by that some of the bits are imported from China.

As for reliability, I friend of mine has a 51 RR Wraith, drives it to the max from Vancouver here in B.C. Canada over the Colorado mountains at full throttle going 70 mph while pulling a trailer with his vintage motor bikes in it.
It has twin SU's and the original dual Delco Remy duel points in it.

When my dad taught mechanics in high school a student of his had a Chev 350 with a super charger, it had so much g-force you couldn't move from your seat from acceleration.
The guy later got into drag boat racing with that engine an won many races.

I'm sure the electronics end of it is very nice, just program what you need and you're good to go, no messing around with what size jet(s) you need, but I just get past the failure thing.
My old B2200 Mazda still has its electronically controlled carb in it and the original electronic ignition _ it just goes and goes, but with that I have road side assistance.
The ironic part about this is that my insurance agent would not give me road side assistance because they didn't want to take responsibility if tow guy damaged the Bentley.

I'm sure that many of those Chev V8's were crumby, they were probably de-tuned to meat stringent emission control back in the early 70's, not so much the bottom end, but the porting on the heads _ low compression etc. There was pretty much no amount of carburetion or fuel injection that could fix that.

 

I have EI in one of my Coopers, but always carry a spare dizzy with points.

As you say, It's not that I don't trust them, I just don't trust them"!

As for Mk2 values & restoration, you will probably always get your money back if you restore/maintain the vehicle yourself. If you have to outsource, forget it!

My 20 cents worth.

 

I think what you are referring to are cheap kits used for old chevy 350 engines and other engines never designed for electronic fuel injection. That is why all of the good quality restomods are NOT using those old engines but rather new LS engines where the entire engine is designed for fuel injection and using quality reliable computers, etc. NOT made in China. All of the restomods I see are like mine where they have scrapped the old 350 for a new modern LS engine fully designed for fuel injection. That is why for restomods so many are using completely modern engines and transmissions made for fuel injection. They are not trying to take a carb engine and slap on fuel injection but rather scrapping the old engine/trans for new more powerful engines that are much more trouble free and powerful.


These new engines are way more reliable than any carbureted engines and have much more horsepower, fuel economy, and just so much more trouble free. These new GM engines work trouble free easily from 250,000 to 350,000 miles without the cold start hassles, issues with jets and changing of drivability due to driving in different altitudes, etc. If you have an old school engine carbs maybe fine but if you compare that to replacing the entire engine and transmission both made to be controlled by computers like all new cars, they are much more reliable and more pleasurable to drive.

 

Geez Prim

You have got me thinking now

Can I find a very neat and tidy Daimler at a great bargain pice ( because , here anyway , they aren't as popular as a Mk2 , even though , they're essentially the same thing ) which needs some engine and transmission work and look at fitting / engineering , a good secondhand LS 1 and manual.
Like I said , my mate bought exactly they for $5000 Aus , out of wreck that had very few km's on it, for his Cobra replica project.
He thumped that around a race track called Calder Park , here in Vic , about 4 weeks ago at an Historics race meeting. I don't suppose fitting and S Indeoendent rear set up would hurt either .

Would you be able to pm / email me some photos and a blurb, about your restomod please

Pete

 

Sometimes in setting a value, I have noticed with many vintage cars, the folks who know the most are the last to acknowledge an increase and also a decrease in value. I have seen that for Corvettes and other cars too (you know, if you are selling a car they will be the first to tell you that you are asking too much and if you just bought a car they are the first to tell you that you paid too much........ So coming in as someone who knows virtually nothing about Jaguar Mark II, this seems like a reasonable price for a fairly nice car ($20k) British Sports Cars: / 1967 Jaguar MK 2 for sale / British Sports Cars / San Luis Obispo, CA

 

The daimler version of the Mk2 has very different characteristics and was pitched at a different class of buyer..although the were around in good numbers from '63 on, the manual version did not become avail until late '67 (As i recall, the 'big bumper' versions with manual all had overdrive) and there were considerably more of them in the slim bumper '250' with manual than in big bumper format..as with the 240 and 340 jag, many manuals did NOT come with overdrive.. likely due to the BMC bean counters introducing cost cutting measures in order to try an make the cars profitable (not a wise strategy) as a comparison with the jaguar the daimler is obviously hampered by a smaller displacement engine (140 Bhp ..more than the 2.4.. less than the 3.4) but the added torque and smoothness of the turner V8..combined with far less weight up front makes for a better balanced car with lighter steering and good potential for tuning .. these engines can match a stock 3.4 with a bit of extra work .. up the compression and work the ports combined with a modified cam profile makes 160 Bhp easily attainable..one characteristic of the daimler V8 is its an 'oversquare' (short stroke) engine and it likes to rev..add a few more BHP and it will pull the car all along at a decent clip.. the manual overdrive V8 has comparable performance to the 3.4 Mk2 auto when stock..and in many ways its nicer car to drive.. manual daimler prices are comparable with those of the jag version.. to my perception they remain real bargains.. but as with the jag..if you get a 'dog'..you can easily lose your shirt trying to make it 'good'..

 

Just to add..the 'mk2' for sale posted above at brit sports cars in SLO is the '67 US '340' model..essentially a rebadged MK2 that had cost cutting measures introduced after the BMC merger.. 'ambla' (vinyl) upholstery , cheaper wood veneer, carpet and headliner .. different hubcaps ( same as 420 an early XJ6) until '67 jaguar only officially imported the 3.8 model to USA.. I can recommend british sportcars as being knowledegeable enthusiasts and very honest to deal with..they do good work ...this looks like a very decent car and the price is also reasonable..

 

Thanks for that TJ.

It does look nice but for me , a Mk 2 would have to be a 1966 , 3.8 manual (better box) with O/D to make it worth investing the $

Plus, I am in Melbourne, Australia ( not Florida ) but thanks for the tip off.

If one was to go down the Daimler 250 path , it seems that overseas, the Daimler sells for significantly less than a Mk 2.

That does not seem to be the case here in Oz and I don't know how saleable they are (if you had to)
So unless an absolute cracker 250 came up, at a bargain price , I'd more than likely stick with the Mk 2.

In pursuing the Mk 2 cause , what do we think about the best option of the following.

1. Find a completely original example, not perfect, that has had some love and time and maybe a few $ spent but has a lovely aged patina (The Wayne Carini, Chasing Classic Cars , philosophy)
2. Find a (faithful to original specs ) good restoration (less risk but more than likely beyond my budget)
3. Find a full restomod that makes it better as a daily driver , because that is what it will be for me , for a couple of years anyway ( This is what I call the Primaz principle )

Thanks for the input fellas

 

its always best to find an original example.. always taking chance with a 'restored' car because, unless the work has been photographically documented.. it s difficult to determine what you have .. I recently acquired a '66 3.4 mk2 man/overdrive car .. for very little money (I bought it for the trans ) and it saddens me to part it out.. arrow straight car with zero corrosion in body(nice color too;- opalescent dark green) ...except the floors are totally shot..a previous owner decided to restore the car (its an unmessed with original with about 65k miles on it) and took the front and rear glass and most of the interior out.. then left it out in the weather for several years.. could re body it I suppose.. BUT..a lot of work and very hard to get compensated..were it just the lower bits of the floors, Id probably fix it.. but the whole lot is gone.. areas around rear seat pan etc ..not a spot if rust in the usual places.. this was a superb car before it got abandoned and left to the elements.. not an unusual story.. plenty of dead S types here too.. they have little value and hence just get left to rot.. the upside is..few surviving should help with value.. I wish there was an outlet for the engines.. they make nice coffee table art.. but no one wants em..

 

Hey Primaz. Thanks for the pics . Very inspiring

TJ. Tell me about it. I have been driving past a twin tank 1275 , all original Mini Cooper S for nigh on 30 years now. He is just sitting out in the weather. They have a garage !!
I have recently been leaving notes to call me , to no avail.

I was driving past on Sunday , knocked on the door and when the lady asked could she help me , I started to say could I talk to her about the Mini and her immediate response was " Not for sale"

My inside voice said

" Really , so WTF , are you just going to leave this piece of classic motoring history out here to return itself to the earth. Sheeeesh "

 

But here is a very nice, not completely original resto

 

Peter,


That car looks very nice, could this be your Jaguar, maybe you should make an offer?


I think you better purchase a Jaguar soon as your tastes in cars are similar to mine but your wish list might be a lot more than your wallet can handle? I have been toying with the idea of getting a old Mini Cooper so I know a fair amount about them. They like the Jag suffer from the common rust issues and their drive train is even a bit worse than the Jag's. If you really are meticulous on the maintenance of a stock Mini you might get 70,000 miles before you need to rebuild the engine. A common and desirable restomod for Mini's is the Honda V-tec upgrade using a tubular front end. Those cars hold their value both restored and with the V-tec. But either way you are looking at least the same amount of money for a Mini.


Peter buy yourself a Jag and then move on to your other dream cars as thus far between the Jag, Land Rover, and Mini you created a wish list that will set you back about $100K US dollars if you shop right otherwise the cost could easily go higher... You do not want to be a car hoarder with a bunch of cars and none of them drivable, do you? That would be a waste of money. Do one project at a time as many people never finish their project cars and when you add more than one project to your collection you can easily become a car hoarder with not one car you can drive and be proud of...

 

Hi Prim

Someone told me

" You need to have one of each brand you love and a Project Car"

The Cooper was meant to be the project car but even then retirement is 10 years off for me ( not counting a Lottery win or dare I say it ' Death Lotto ' if the in laws peg out. I know that sounds terrible but as my parents have both been gone for a while , I think I can say it)

The ideal collection garage for me will be;

1. 2000 XKR
2. 1966 , Mk 2. 3.8 Manual with O/D (maybe needing some work later and could be the project car )
3. 1978 Series 3 SWB Land Rover. It is already 9/10 and just needs a bit more TLC to get it 9.5 /10

That will do

Pete

 

Peter,


Check this out Mini Tec Home


My dream mini would be a 1973 or older mini with the their 4 wheel drive kit running a high quality Vtech (either the stage 3 or stage 4) KMOD - KMOD K24a Crate Engines - Asheboro, NC

 

As an individual who cut his teeth working on Minis (and other BMC junk from same era) I fail to see ANY attraction for them.. as with Gerald Palmer (an equally innovative designer to Issigonis) niether designer should have been let near the decision making process for mechanical components.(Palmer was fired by BMC over the riley 'pathfinder' a very advanced design..that had critical flaws leading to massive warranty claims..his previous masterpiece,the Jowett javelin had a similar effect on that company..same issues.. warranty claims from an innovative but undeveloped design ..that bankrupted them) the mini has to have one of the dumbest powertrain designs ever inflicted on the public(note that no other manufacturer copied the concept..they copied those who 'got it right' such as Fiat ..who put the trans on the end of the engine rather than under it with common oil supply ) and was a large contributor to the demise of BMC (they lost money on every Mini made..mainly due to the high production cost and warranty issues with that crap drivetrain)the 'concept' was sound..the application off the concept was terminally stupid..
Wondering if any posters here have seen the film 'tour of jaguar factory 1961' which can be sourced via google..its a 'you tube' video.. shows the MK2 jaguars being made.. highly informative..and should give any owner a greater appreciation of their car. The jaguars were beautifully made by a highly skilled labor force and were always fantastic value..

 

TJ,

You are right about the mini having a poor design of the same lubricant for both the engine and rear end. I called a number of well known mini repair and service specialists and asked them the question how long do these engines last. They said " a long time if you take care of them", then I asked them what do you define as a long time? and the answer was 60,000 to 70,000 miles. That is so lame. That is why I would definitely install the Honda V-tech conversion as that makes the old mini's become a super fast and reliable car. When you also upgrade to the all wheel drive then you can really hook up all that horsepower! The Honda V-tech mini's have strong resale value and are amazingly fast cool cars.

While some people I am sure frown upon my GM LS V8 3.8s as being non stock, I really do not care as the car for me is really has what Jaguar missed to make it an ideal car. I am approaching 50,000 miles on the 3.8s now and this car out performs almost every new performance sedan and how many old Jags can run this hard and this many miles without any issues; and this engine will go reliably to 300,000 miles. All of the British classics hold their value regardless of being stock or custom. To me they have great lines and cool timeless designs that keep them valuable.

 

How long is the fuel injection and it's various secondary components supposed to last ?
So after 300,000 miles the injectors have to be replaced, the fuel pump ?
Is the fuel pump a small DC motor that runs in the tank ?

I'm just sort of poking at you because I just can't help it, so don't get your self in a knot.

My boss drives a Toyota 4Runner, I'm not sure how many miles it has on it, but I don't think it was any where near 300,000 miles. A few years ago she had to replace the injectors on it (lack of power, poor starting, misfiring) _ that was a 1500.00 dollar bill.

A mechanic that I've known for more then 20 years who works on Mercedes' where the high pressure fuel pumps have a propensity to fail.
A used one, if you can find one is around 1200.00$, the last time I checked.

Here's a case in defense of old technology, when my dad was an auto shop teacher and a salesman with a carbureted Chrysler New Yorker was looking to get his oil changed _ he was too cheap to go to the garage. (he had one of his students do it for credits)

The salesman drove it all over the continent (US and Canada) and amazingly it had over a million miles on it and ran like a watch.
I'm sure at some point the valve train had some work on it, but the bottom end had good compression and was never touched.
For all I know it had the original fuel pump on it.

The nice thing about old technology is it's easy to work on, requires very little maintenance and it's cheap.
A set of points is a couple of bucks, the finicky automatic chokes work trouble free if you give it a squirt of oil every year.
The salesman looked after it, changed the oil, replaced the points when the oil was changed.

My dad drove a P5 Rover, drove it till it rusted out, never touched the fuel pump, never touched the carburetors...

I drove a ratty old 59 Chevy truck for years to work when gas was cheap.
Never had to touch the carb or the fuel pump, just simple maintenance.

No fuel injected vehicle could make a claim like this, eventually the injectors and pump needs replacing.
Expensive and hard to work on.

I buddy of mine had this piece of crap Buick (it belonged to his wife) and the pump was shot.
What a job it was accessing the thing inside the tank.

I could go on and on...

I don't care how nice fuel injection is to set up and how great in makes the engine run, eventually when it needs maintenance, it's very costly and bitch to work on.

 

Primaz,
Im on the same page as regards 'restomods' as long as they are engineered properly.. the situation seems to be improving incrementally.. were one forced to have a Mini, the ONLY way to go would be with a Vtech upgrade.. makes perfect sense to use a modern alloy V8 in the Stype (always a superb chassis.. far better handling and ride to the iconic Mk2) ..and is a design that is easy to adapt to re-engieered 'bolt in' front and aft subframes.. cars are meant to be driven.. if they can be made to drive better , why not ? there are companies such as Beecham in NZ that have been completely re-engineering these cars for many years.. Vicarage in Uk too.. what i dont care for is half assed conversion with cheapo US V8s installed (often done to bring back a dead car with bad or missing engine) and this is reflected in the value of the car when they do come on the market.. of course the 80s XJ6 is a prime candidate for a US V8 conversion .. and kits are out there to do this..the old XK mill was long in the tooth by the time the first XJ6 came out..and a decent V8 with o/d auto box can make for a very good driving car that can be built very economical, following the original concept of a superb driving performance car that gives great 'bang for the buck'.. Im a big fan of the MK2 jaguar.. it remains a very elegant classic today .. and I dont feel its right for me to go any way other than 'period correct' jaguar powertrain upgrades..(and applying a better, more user friendly trans) I have no qualms with modding an Stype/ 420 of XJ6.. they remain around in decent numbers and just dont have the same appeal , hence 'value' of the Mk2.. the Daimler version of the Mk2 is also a prime candidate for upgrades.. Im in the process of building one right now .. but with a period correct bigger daimler engine from the majestic major.. It comes down to weighing up practicality with value.. In my case i like to do builds that were possible 'back in the day'.. if one had the desire for a greatly improved car .. Ive been 'improving' them as i saw fit for some 40 years to date .. modified Mk2s were avail when the cars were still in production.. those sold by Coombs of Guildford come to mind.. one pet peeve of mine are the 'replica' Coombs rear fender skirts.. which are ALL bogus.. Coombs pitched out the skirts entirely.. and brazed in pipe in the recess where the skirt was fitted, creating an arch that matched the style of the one on front fender.. the shallowed aftermarket arches sold today just dont look right to my eye.. all personal taste of course..

 

Jeff, I know you cannot retrain some old dogs For work I have a fleet of GM vans and thus far they have all been very trouble free, no issues with fuel pumps or injectors and they have proven that they are running great with many approaching 200,000 miles. At least from my research the GM LS V8's have had such a good track record on reliability and power which is why they are just dominating the restomod scene. From my experience these GM LS engines are the fastest and most reliable V8's I have seen so as I age I would rather not tinker but just drive the car hard Actually my plans are to continue to drive the crap out of this LS1 and when I get to around 300,000 miles I will be looking to upgrade to a Mast Performance LS3 create motor like this that will put down 630 HP to keep me faster than whatever new high performance sedans come up with Mast Motorsports High Performance Powertrain Solutions




TJ, Beecham makes great restomod MKII's with all Jag parts but for me I feel my knowledge enabled me to build a higher performance version without paying the $100K + price tag. Now Callum is making a limited run of 12 of his dream MK restomod but that has a staggering $350-$375,000 pounds! What is that like 1.5 times in US dollars, wow! That "half assed conversions" is exactly what I purchased via Ebay and threw away that cheap old school 350 and redid the entire car the right way.


I appreciate all classics stock and modified and when they are done right they all appreciate in value. To me you drive what makes you happy and with a classic you cannot go wrong for holding and appreciating in value. Sedans will likely be a bit slower than sports cars to skyrocket but they keep slowly going up especially as new car price tags continue to climb for plastic disposable cars....